Bison44 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 So they need to find a mystical league in Europe, that has the highest quality players and will play kids with no experience from outside their program....when their own MLS club wont play them in MLS. But a league right in Canada, with some recent MLS players on almost every team, that has a mandate to play young CDNs isnt a reasonable transition?? Colliedor, SthMelbRed, johnyb and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: Difficult to compare CPL to Europe. It's a pretty big place with many different levels of play. Regardless, we haven't seen the best CPL players move to MLS, and the best prospects seem to prefer to skip MLS You earn the chance to play at higher levels by performing at lower levels. Prospects aren't gifted loans to La Masia, before returning to MLS. That's not how things work The CPL has already proven beneficial, I don't get why so many seem resistant to support it. No one is "resistant to support it". Guys like Bekker, Bustos, Aird are ideal for CPL, they didn't make it in MLS. However, Yao has already showed well in MLS, he doesn't need to go down a level to prove himself or learn anything playing vs guys that haven't made it in MLS or in Europe. Yes the minutes would be appreciated, but not necessarily vs lesser talent (all due respect). Yao is on the cusp of breaking into the MLS, unfortunately the reality of pro soccer is young guys often get their breaks when the starters literally break something. So a guy like Yao might get 20 games in MLS or he might get 2 next year, all depending what happens around him, not just how he performs in training. To say the solution for every 18-21 year old is to go get minutes in CPL is wrong. Several leagues in Europe fall in between MLS and CPL. That would be the ideal option, if Yao doesn't see the field enough next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 50 minutes ago, Bison44 said: So they need to find a mystical league in Europe, that has the highest quality players and will play kids with no experience from outside their program....when their own MLS club wont play them in MLS. But a league right in Canada, with some recent MLS players on almost every team, that has a mandate to play young CDNs isnt a reasonable transition?? Mystical league in Europe??? Seriously? You can't think of one league that falls between MLS and CPL in Europe? That is where Yao's development is now. CPL is a step down for a guy that's already shown well at the MLS level. I don't mean to sound harsh or hard on CPL, its great and all and I fully support it. But the gap is huge, no one can deny that. Besides, get real man, "recent MLS players" = the guys that didn't make the cut in MLS. Junkie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club Linesman Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 The gap between the CPL and MLS is not that big. Besides the closeness of the games last year and the Cavalry victory, the CPL is allowing guys to reach their potential which, when compared with the lower level MLS players, is not that far off. The big difference in the leagues are the DPs and the TAM guys. Hell when you search TFC vs bottom Ligue 1 or Serie A sides, they are comparable or ahead for the top few players (Poz, Piatti, ...) but the next spots are dominated by the European leagues who have a much higher level in the squad overall. The level of play in the CPL was much higher than many of us thought and is not so far behind your bottom of the 11 MLS starters. It would be great if the CSA could mandate all CB’s who are rotting on benches need to be loaned to CPL clubs to play. In a couple of years this weakness would be much less of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 The gap is huge!!! Oh boy. Waterman didnt seem to be anyones choice as best CB in CPL and he is playing in front of Yao this year with Montreal. No disrespect to Yao, because I do think he looks very promising but I dont think a loan to CPL would be beneath him. I think it did Dunn a lot of good. Ivan, Kent and johnyb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 2 hours ago, costarg said: Mystical league in Europe??? Seriously? You can't think of one league that falls between MLS and CPL in Europe? That is where Yao's development is now. CPL is a step down for a guy that's already shown well at the MLS level. I don't mean to sound harsh or hard on CPL, its great and all and I fully support it. But the gap is huge, no one can deny that. Besides, get real man, "recent MLS players" = the guys that didn't make the cut in MLS. Yes. And, of course, the clubs in those leagues are just dying to give development minutes to foreign kids who belong to other clubs, right? Soak your head, mate. You're talking absolute drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, costarg said: No one is "resistant to support it". Guys like Bekker, Bustos, Aird are ideal for CPL, they didn't make it in MLS. However, Yao has already showed well in MLS, he doesn't need to go down a level to prove himself or learn anything playing vs guys that haven't made it in MLS or in Europe. Yes the minutes would be appreciated, but not necessarily vs lesser talent (all due respect). Yao is on the cusp of breaking into the MLS, unfortunately the reality of pro soccer is young guys often get their breaks when the starters literally break something. So a guy like Yao might get 20 games in MLS or he might get 2 next year, all depending what happens around him, not just how he performs in training. To say the solution for every 18-21 year old is to go get minutes in CPL is wrong. Several leagues in Europe fall in between MLS and CPL. That would be the ideal option, if Yao doesn't see the field enough next year. Are we really talking about a guy with 127 professional minutes to his name? He may be very talented, I haven't seen him play, but that doesn't seem like someone that's outgrown CPL. Plenty of players in the league are well beyond that, and even more were on the cusp or are still on the cusp of MLS. You're vastly overstating the gap in quality between the two leagues, in my opinion. I haven't seen anyone before you suggest CPL is the solution for every 18-21 year old. I just stumbled into you claiming that it wasn't an option for development, which is what I took exception to Edit: Waterman starts ahead of Yao again tonight Edited October 27, 2020 by Aird25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colliedor Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 3 hours ago, costarg said: No one is "resistant to support it". Guys like Bekker, Bustos, Aird are ideal for CPL, they didn't make it in MLS. However, Yao has already showed well in MLS, he doesn't need to go down a level to prove himself or learn anything playing vs guys that haven't made it in MLS or in Europe. Yes the minutes would be appreciated, but not necessarily vs lesser talent (all due respect). Yao is on the cusp of breaking into the MLS, unfortunately the reality of pro soccer is young guys often get their breaks when the starters literally break something. So a guy like Yao might get 20 games in MLS or he might get 2 next year, all depending what happens around him, not just how he performs in training. To say the solution for every 18-21 year old is to go get minutes in CPL is wrong. Several leagues in Europe fall in between MLS and CPL. That would be the ideal option, if Yao doesn't see the field enough next year. Slooooow down there. Yao has not proved anything. He looked to me like an inexperienced player multiple times. If it was so easy to loan players to these European teams, we would see a lot more of it. Instead, we see players loaned to lower divisions instead. How many young players do you see go from MLS to mid-low tier European leagues on loan? You're making it sound way to easy than it really is. CPL isn't mls quality of course, but the experience does come from playing against experienced players, yes even former mls players that failed. If he goes to a league harder than that, he won't even play. What's the logic here? There aren't first division teams in Europe lining up to take up MLS young kids on loan with no intent of buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Henry is probably factoring experience into the equation given that Waterman is 24 and has a lot more pro experience than Yao who is what...19? They are partnered with Jar Jar Binks who is also only 19. Unless Henry is the 2nd coming of Mike Nykoluk, it would be odd for any manager to start two 19 year olds in the centre of the defense, unless those were the only options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Club Linesman Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Don’t worry about CB. Somebody at FIFA21 knows something we don’t. Cornelius received a +5 upgrade today for his potential so he will be our rock going forward 😜 Bison44, Trois Reds, Nate3322 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiedPilko Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Waterman was fantastic tonight - made a line clearance, and broke up a few crosses. I think he's looked out of place until tonight, so I hope he keeps that up. Edited October 28, 2020 by PiedPilko Nate3322, Trois Reds, nolando and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate3322 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Club Linesman said: Don’t worry about CB. Somebody at FIFA21 knows something we don’t. Cornelius received a +5 upgrade today for his potential so he will be our rock going forward 😜 That's a crazy upgrade lol and it means Cornelius is our 4th highest player in FIFA based on potential Club Linesman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Yao is 20..same boat as Dunn, very promising but stagnating and needing to play. They go from, this kid is an exciting u-17 to..man he is already 20 and he hasnt even gotten a look, in the blink of an eye. An Observer, johnyb, Club Linesman and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Fair enough, I agree to disagree guys. I see what you're saying and I respect your opinions. I still feel the CPL is not quite where we want it, where the best in CPL can routinely walk in and fill a spot in the MLS. Waterman is the 5th choice CB on the Impact right now. Just ahead of a guy who turned 20 this month. I just don't feel a guy like Yao gets better by getting games in CPL. I feel 4-5 games and training in a better level like MLS, is greater than 20 games in CPL. This is just like the conversation regarding MLS vs the Championship a little while back, there were some extreme opinions being pushed there. If we use that logic, and say MLS is equal to the Championship, and then say that someone from CPL can make it in the MLS, then one comes to the conclusion that someone from the CPL can actually make it in the Championship. Honestly, i dream of that day, but we're no where close to that. We're all Canadian soccer fans and we all support the same goal, we're just seeing different things. Bison44 and BearcatSA 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I would love to see how Dunn rates... if only Vanney would give him a game over one of Slow or Slower (Gonzalez/Ciman) badname22, Bison44, h coach and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccer.shocker Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 42 minutes ago, TOcanadafan said: I would love to see how Dunn rates... if only Vanney would give him a game over one of Slow or Slower (Gonzalez/Ciman) It is so painful to watch Gonzalez and Ciman this season. Dreadful most nights. More painful to think of the salaries. How can Dunn not get his chance next season?! Would be hard to Be worse than those two geezers are. Nate3322 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdog Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 It's amazing how bad TFC's CBs look without Mavinga beside them. Dunn can't be worse than Gonzalez at this point. Club Linesman and Colliedor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Bdog said: It's amazing how bad TFC's CBs look without Mavinga beside them. Dunn can't be worse than CIMAN at this point. Fixed your post, although both are probably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicdan Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 9/30/2020 at 10:50 PM, SpecialK said: Your missing a few players. Scott Kennedy is one. Dunn, Romeo , Zator, Gasparotto, MacNaughton, Meilleur-Giguère, Edgar, Didic, Straith, Montgomery,Hainault gaparotto? you are joking me bro Mikmacdo, Shway and Colliedor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colliedor Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Dicdan said: gaparotto? you are joking me bro I know we're desperate but half the players listed aren't even good enough. Players like Romeo is near where near good enough, and I've seen Montogemery and he really isn't anything special imo. Controversial side note, I think Roger Thompson is better than Gasparotto. Mikmacdo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicdan Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Colliedor said: I know we're desperate but half the players listed aren't even good enough. Players like Romeo is near where near good enough, and I've seen Montogemery and he really isn't anything special imo. Controversial side note, I think Roger Thompson is better than Gasparotto. roger isnt hyped and is way better than him! Gasparotto made some mistakes this and past season that didnt let us win some games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colliedor Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dicdan said: roger isnt hyped and is way better than him! Gasparotto made some mistakes this and past season that didnt let us win some games Yup. Faster, much better passer and much more agile which helps against tricky fast players. Dicdan and Mikmacdo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 If I am understanding transfermarkt correctly, it looks like Dunn doesn’t return from his Valour loan to TFC until November 30th. Do people know otherwise? I have seen several calls for him to get playing time for TFC but it seems like he isn’t eligible. Is that accurate or is he allowed to return since there is no international transfer happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I thought Cornelius had a strong match vs Seattle and apart from the collective team gong show performance in the Banc of California stadium awhile back, he has been a solid enough performer in other games, yet MDS always seems to have him on the outside looking in. Perhaps a change in scenery and coaching staff in 2021 might be a benefit? Did he impress enough to get the start in the big match vs Portland on Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, BearcatSA said: I thought Cornelius had a strong match vs Seattle and apart from the collective team gong show performance in the Banc of California stadium awhile back, he has been a solid enough performer in other games, yet MDS always seems to have him on the outside looking in. Perhaps a change in scenery and coaching staff in 2021 might be a benefit? Did he impress enough to get the start in the big match vs Portland on Sunday? Hopefully, the new manager will give every player that remains on the roster in '21 a fair shot at winning a regular place in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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