Center Backs - Our Weakest Link

[apbsmith]

2 hours ago, Nate3322 said:

They are definitely our best 4 CBs at the moment. Alternatively if Kennedy could get consistent minutes I would say he's ahead of James. Otherwise we don't have too many choices Waterman, Jakovic and Montgomery  in the MLS and in the CPL Zator, Didic and Schaale (if he's eligible yet) but none of them are ahead of Henry, Cornelius, Vitoria and James.

I think we have to add Halbouni to the list of 2nd tier. 

If we had a Euro based friendly I could see him being brought in for a look. 

Still a long ways to go for the lad but on a nice trajectory. The Bundy U23(fourth tier) from what I heard is great for development and he has been playing regularly. Has a bit of speed and towering and confident presence as well from what I've seen from his few highlights. 

Hopefully he can play regularly in an entire U23 season. Don't want to over hype the lad but I am hopeful.  

Edited October 26, 2020 by apbsmith

[Colliedor]

Really wish after that TFC collapse Vanney will have some sense and give Dunn a few minutes for a change. Looked really solid in CPL.

[Nate3322]

Just now, Colliedor said:

Really wish after that TFC collapse Vanney will have some sense and give Dunn a few minutes for a change. Looked really solid in CPL.

It's stupid we only had two fit CBs against Philly and Vanney didn't even bring Dunn...

[Colliedor]

Just now, Nate3322 said:

It's stupid we only had two fit CBs against Philly and Vanney didn't even bring Dunn...

With the amount of shit Ciman in particular has done, it's a real slap in the face to keep rewarding him over a young prospect. Vanney is fine playing a 16 year old, but a young CB who just came back from a good loan spell can't make the bench? Such an odd flex.

[Norrin Radd]

5 hours ago, Addona said:

Who would others select?

Kamal Miller might be one to consider. With Cornelius playing inconsistently this season and having lost his starting spot I could see Miller replacing him in the CMNT top four. I know he's usually is listed as a LB but the few times I've had a chance to watch Orlando he seems to be lining up on the left side of a back three. I was really hoping to watch him on the weekend but unfortunately, for the first time in the last six games, he wasn't in the starting lineup. Hopefully Herdman is keeping a close eye on him.

[dyslexic nam]

For me the real indicator isn’t what our current CB pool looks like in relation to our CB pool 5 years ago.   It is about how our CB pool compares to the level of the rest of the squad and how that has deteriorated over time.  5 years ago (and earlier) we had a lot of mediocrity throughout the team so a somewhat underwhelming CB pool didn’t stand out in any way.   What has changed is the quality of the rest of the team.  And in relation to the rest of the team, our CB pool is most definitely comparatively weaker.    
 

No where else on the field would we think about playing Unattached FC at this point - there is just too much quality to pick a guy not signed or not getting minutes.  But at CB, we are still considering James in the mix even though he has been largely absent in Denmark.  

[Club Linesman]

At the moment: Henry Miller James and Vitoria. Jakovic is simply too slow. He gets minutes on LAFC but they control play and he doesn’t get as exposed as he would playing for Canada. Cornelius should be in there but he is barely playing.  James gets the nod for me because he has been our best defender in the recent past and he trains in a better environment.

Kennedy is a great wildcard as is Ferreira and Dunn and the CPL guys.  If one guy develops into a consistent regular first team guy and plays at a tier 2 level we will be ok.

[BearcatSA]

I

1 hour ago, Club Linesman said:

At the moment: Henry Miller James and Vitoria. Jakovic is simply too slow. He gets minutes on LAFC but they control play and he doesn’t get as exposed as he would playing for Canada. Cornelius should be in there but he is barely playing.  James gets the nod for me because he has been our best defender in the recent past and he trains in a better environment.

Kennedy is a great wildcard as is Ferreira and Dunn and the CPL guys.  If one guy develops into a consistent regular first team guy and plays at a tier 2 level we will be ok.

LAFC have started their new CB signing so barring injury or suspension, he and Segura will be the pairing to end the season and going into the playoffs.  I'm not sure what the future holds for Cornelius next season with Veselinovic now officially on board and currently in the first choice CB pairing. 

[Nate3322]

1 hour ago, Club Linesman said:

At the moment: Henry Miller James and Vitoria. 

Idk I don't think that miller is good enough tbh. He hasn't that good so far whenever he does play and he's only playing right now because of injuries and even then he has to fight with Smith to even get minutes.

[Addona]

So, it seems like #4-#8 is all over the place ... but it sounds like a starting pair of Vitoria and Henry is likely, with James off the bench ...

[N1ckbr0wn]

Based on current form/playing time/level/potential

1. Vitoria

2. Henry

3. James

4. Jakovic 

5. Miller

6. Cornelius 

7. Kennedy 

8. Waterman

9. Zator

10. Dunn

Honourable mentions: Didic, Amuz, Halbouni

Kennedy jumps up this list pretty quick when he starts getting playing time in 2.Bundesliga. Halbouni also shows potential 

Edited October 27, 2020 by N1ckbr0wn

[Stryker911]

Karifa Yao is another one who has a chance to quickly climb this list. Makes the bench every game for Montreal. Didn't look bad in his 1 start this year. 6'2" and just turned 20 a couple weeks ago. If he can push his way into the starting lineup up next season that would be huge for us. He is probably at somewhat the same level as Dunn in that they both need to start getting some playing time.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Stryker911

[Bison44]

How did Fachineri do with Ottawa at the Island games?  He is anther one who could climb the list either by getting a full solid CPL season or getting a few games with VWC.  

[costarg]

 

10 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

Karifa Yao is another one who has a chance to quickly climb this list. Makes the bench every game for Montreal. Didn't look bad in his 1 start this year. 6'2" and just turned 20 a couple weeks ago. If he can push his way into the starting lineup up next season that would be huge for us. He is probably at somewhat the same level as Dunn in that they both need to start getting some playing time.

Just like a few others, it all depends on if he sees enough of the field.  These guys need to be playing, its pointless to sign these guys and have them on the bench for 1-2 years in the crucial developmental stage.  We're wasting their potential in doing so.  

In a perfect world (from CANMNT's perspective), Yao would've lined up beside Fanni for 10 consecutive games this year.  Would've been massive for his development.

 

 

[Ivan]

10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

How did Fachineri do with Ottawa at the Island games?  He is anther one who could climb the list either by getting a full solid CPL season or getting a few games with VWC.  

In the times I watched him, he didn't look very noticeable, good or bad, which is normally good for a defender.  Considering he's just 18, it is probably a good endorsement.  I do remember one blow by though, but can't remember who it was that blew by him.

The important thing for him is he got valuable playing time and experience against men.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Ivan
added to post

[PiedPilko]

10 hours ago, Stryker911 said:

Karifa Yao is another one who has a chance to quickly climb this list. Makes the bench every game for Montreal. Didn't look bad in his 1 start this year. 6'2" and just turned 20 a couple weeks ago. If he can push his way into the starting lineup up next season that would be huge for us. He is probably at somewhat the same level as Dunn in that they both need to start getting some playing time.

Maybe he could spend a season in the CPL?

[costarg]

6 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

Maybe he could spend a season in the CPL?

Possibly, but the step from CPL to MLS is still too large.  Its good for minutes, but its not great for developing versus actual top level opponents. 

[PiedPilko]

30 minutes ago, costarg said:

Possibly, but the step from CPL to MLS is still too large.  Its good for minutes, but its not great for developing versus actual top level opponents. 

If the CPL isn't good enough to be a development league for someone like Yao, I'm not sure how much use it has... I would hope the competition is good enough to improve him, but if not, it still beats the bench.

[costarg]

1 minute ago, PiedPilko said:

If the CPL isn't good enough to be a development league for someone like Yao, I'm not sure how much use it has... I would hope the competition is good enough to improve him, but if not, it still beats the bench.

I know, hopefully with time it'll get there. Didn't seem to be enough for Waterman or Didic to step into MLS teams and make 3rd or 4th CB.

[Aird25]

37 minutes ago, costarg said:

I know, hopefully with time it'll get there. Didn't seem to be enough for Waterman or Didic to step into MLS teams and make 3rd or 4th CB.

Waterman jumped from TWU Spartans to MLS after one season in CPL. A season where he probably wouldn't have been considered a top CB in the league by many. Didic spent 5 years in an MLS setup and never made the jump. I don't have a clue how you can discredit CPL based off of those two examples

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Possibly, but the step from CPL to MLS is still too large.  Its good for minutes, but its not great for developing versus actual top level opponents. 

Dunn also greatly benefitted from CPL loan, vs USL-2 or whatever TFC 2 has been playing in.  They would be playing against former part time MLS (Aird, Levis, Bekker, Bustos, Babouli, Porter, Telfer, Petrasso etc) and INT like Dejong, Edgar, Haber, Ledgerwood. On top of that a CPL team gets to face off against CONCACAF rivals and MLS in V-cup, so there are chances to play against top level opponents occasionally.   It might be a big jump to MLS, but where are the other intermediate chances for MLS kids?  USL-CHAMP isnt much (if any) better than CPL. 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

Waterman jumped from TWU Spartans to MLS after one season in CPL. A season where he probably wouldn't have been considered a top CB in the league by many. Didic spent 5 years in an MLS setup and never made the jump. I don't have a clue how you can discredit CPL based off of those two examples

It's early days, CPL is young and developing.  We'll get there.  My point is *today* it doesn't seem like the best player in CPL jumps straight into a starting role on an average or even below average MLS team.  Like I said, its the goal to bring CPL to that level, but it's not there today.

I'd rather see Yao or any other promising 20 year old go to Europe to develop than the CPL.  Is that soo far fetched?  

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Dunn also greatly benefitted from CPL loan, vs USL-2 or whatever TFC 2 has been playing in.  They would be playing against former part time MLS (Aird, Levis, Bekker, Bustos, Babouli, Porter, Telfer, Petrasso etc) and INT like Dejong, Edgar, Haber, Ledgerwood. On top of that a CPL team gets to face off against CONCACAF rivals and MLS in V-cup, so there are chances to play against top level opponents occasionally.   It might be a big jump to MLS, but where are the other intermediate chances for MLS kids?  USL-CHAMP isnt much (if any) better than CPL. 

You're making my point dude, playing vs Aird, Levis, Bekker, Bustos, Babouli, Porter, Telfer, Petrasso  etc is fair and it gives them minutes, but it's not like playing vs the best or even top level talent.  Its not the same thing.  You get better playing vs the best, you stagnate playing at a lower level.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

It's early days, CPL is young and developing.  We'll get there.  My point is *today* it doesn't seem like the best player in CPL jumps straight into a starting role on an average or even below average MLS team.  Like I said, its the goal to bring CPL to that level, but it's not there today.

I'd rather see Yao or any other promising 20 year old go to Europe to develop than the CPL.  Is that soo far fetched?  

If you're expecting them to go to the 2.Bundesliga or Championship then yes. If you want them to go to the Danish 2nd division then what's the difference? 

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

It's early days, CPL is young and developing.  We'll get there.  My point is *today* it doesn't seem like the best player in CPL jumps straight into a starting role on an average or even below average MLS team.  Like I said, its the goal to bring CPL to that level, but it's not there today.

I'd rather see Yao or any other promising 20 year old go to Europe to develop than the CPL.  Is that soo far fetched?  

Difficult to compare CPL to Europe. It's a pretty big place with many different levels of play. Regardless, we haven't seen the best CPL players move to MLS, and the best prospects seem to prefer to skip MLS

1 hour ago, costarg said:

You're making my point dude, playing vs Aird, Levis, Bekker, Bustos, Babouli, Porter, Telfer, Petrasso  etc is fair and it gives them minutes, but it's not like playing vs the best or even top level talent.  Its not the same thing.  You get better playing vs the best, you stagnate playing at a lower level.

You earn the chance to play at higher levels by performing at lower levels. Prospects aren't gifted loans to La Masia, before returning to MLS. That's not how things work The CPL has already proven beneficial, I don't get why so many seem resistant to support it. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Aird25