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USA National Team Watch


Macksam

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12 hours ago, Obinna said:

Looks like Barcelona will be completing a move for Dest, so he won't be joining Davies at Bayern, which I am glad about. I like that our guy is with the UCL title holders, I don't want him sharing the limelight with Dest.

American fans on MLSsoccer.com were all giddy like:

"wow Bayern will now have two north America fullbacks"

or

"imagine a backline with Davies, Dest and Richards". 

Puke. Maybe it is the CanMNT fan in me, but there is something revolting about that. I guess such reactions are normal when you are the fan of a lesser player.

Case in point, David is a better player than Weah, so when he joined Lille who were the ones jumping for joy that 2 North Americans would be playing for a big club? Of course it was the usmnt fans, not us. David was the big news, but they took the opportunity to name drop Weah,  talking about both of them forming a "dynamic duo" lol. Meanwhile, if any of us brought up Weah at all it was to note that David will push him down the depth chart (and so far we were right).

err.. chill, just coming off as petty..

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49 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Anyone denying the USMNT is not the better team based on raw talent is just delusional. Don't like them, but when it comes to resources and the number of high level prospect they have (and their opportunities for development), we just don't compete. They'll be giving Mexico a serious run for their money in terms of domestic exports to Europe very soon (if not already). They are the richest country in the world, and have a pop or 320M+ to our 35M+, of course they'll be able to do everything at a much bigger scale than we can. Sure we have Davies at Bayern who is an exceptional talent, but their base line is just so much higher than ours, that really, there is no rivalry. 7-8/10 times they still smack us.

The overall balance of the team favours the US. Their CB depth and quality is really what bridges it.  In most other positions it’s pretty close - about 50/50 but their CB’s are just a level better than ours that it takes them over us.

In a head to head matchup, I think the US wins 7/10 games against us right now.  At Home we could beat them.

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Speaking of balance, are the USA imbalanced? We know they have some fantastic young players, but sometimes I feel they are lacking a veteran presence. Are we more balanced in this regard?

Canada

Youth: Davies, David, Cornelius, Brault-Guillard, Miller, Eustaquio

Prime: Osorio, Kaye, Adekugbe, Laryea, Larin, Cavallini, Piette, Henry

Vets: Arfield, Hoilett, Hutchinson, Vitoria, Borjan

USA

Youth: Pulisic, Reyna, Dest, Sargent, Adams, McKennie, Cannon, 

Prime: Steffan, Morris, Boyd, Roldan, Yedlin, Brooks, Long

Vets: Altidore, Zardes, Bradley, Ream

 

Now trying to be fair and not cherry-pick, I selected the best players for each country. I started with us and chose who think of as starters, or at least debatable starters. I never gave too much mind to position, but I did pick one goal keeper for each. I then did the same for the USA.

So what to make of the results?

The first thing which is clear is that almost all of their best players are in the youth category. They are going to be scary good in a few years, but right now they have talent without experience. That won't last for long, but experience in a team is critical. Youth players need Vets to lead them, but in order to lead you must still be effective. You must be a pillar of the team. Being a "bench" leader only counts for so much. This is where I think the USA may struggle for this cycle. 

Look at their vets. Bradley is just about past it at this level with all due respect. Altidore is not far behind. I love both of these players, but this is true. Zardes is having a career year in MLS and Ream is a steady eddy, but are these guys who Pulisic, Adams, Dest and co. are going to be motivated by or inspired by?

Who is going to drag the team to victory when the going gets tough? The best players. However, if the best players are the young players, the moment may prove too big. They don't have the reference points when push comes to shove. This is where you need leaders with experience.

We have a much better outlook in this regard. Hutchinson is still playing at a high level. When he shows up he plays a key role for Canada. He never just comes in to round out the numbers. Same goes for Arfield and Hoilett. These are not "fringe" vets, these are core players for Canada. They command respect with their play. I am not even saying they are better players than their USA counterparts (though you can argue they are), but I am saying in the context of our team they are big players. The USA vets are not the big players, their youth are the big players.

In fact, I would say the 6 most talented players from that USA group are arguably what I call Youth. For Canada, I think of out of our top 6 we have 2 from the Youth, 1 in their Prime and 3 who are Vets. 

I mean, it's all subjective but you know what I am getting at. Basically I think the USA will go through growing pains before they become the juggernauts some people expect. 

 

Edited by Obinna
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2 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

The overall balance of the team favours the US. Their CB depth and quality is really what bridges it.  In most other positions it’s pretty close - about 50/50 but their CB’s are just a level better than ours that it takes them over us.

In a head to head matchup, I think the US wins 7/10 games against us right now.  At Home we could beat them.

They seem to finally be starting to churn out 1-2 high level talents per year, and are doing so consistently. The biggest thing is that these players, relative to their Canadian counter parts, have a better chance of taking the next steps in the careers due to the greater number of opportunities they have. While we are in a better spot now than a decade ago with CPL and the 3 MLS academies, we are still not quite at the level where we consistently land at least one player on a top 10 European League per year. Right now sure we are in a "golden" generation of sorts... but the biggest task will be to raise the overall standard in attempt to make the "now" be more or less the norm moving forward.

Edited by LeoH037
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On 9/20/2020 at 6:27 PM, red card said:

Reyna should have been on your radar as of last year when he played in u17 qualifying vs Canada. And if you even glanced at any US national team related website, the standard but uniquely American soccer gushing for him has been in overdrive for a couple of years.

That's the point of this thread, I plain and simply didn't know anything about him. I don't follow US soccer websites or their national team too closely, and I never watched the aforementioned U17 qualifying game.

I rather come to a thread like this one periodically to see what's going on with them rather then surf the net for info.

Ease of access. 

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On 9/20/2020 at 10:32 PM, Floortom said:

I don’t mind the purpose of this thread but I’m not sure if I agree with them being our “biggest rival”. They’re clearly a class above us and we’ve beaten them once in like 30 years? To me Honduras is more of a rival and more the immediate concern on a team we need to overtake.

  • They are not a class above us. We are better than them in many areas of the pitch 
    • Defense being the obvious one we are not
  • The past means nothing
  • Taking over Honduras will inevitably happen if it already hasn't
    • We don't have to concern ourselves with Honduras
  • We should concern ourselves with the only other country in CONCACAF besides us that has a chance of becoming world class
    • That only other country is the USA
    • Mexico is arguably already one
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15 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

Anyone denying the USMNT is not the better team based on raw talent is just delusional. Don't like them, but when it comes to resources and the number of high level prospect they have (and their opportunities for development), we just don't compete. They'll be giving Mexico a serious run for their money in terms of domestic exports to Europe very soon (if not already). They are the richest country in the world, and have a pop or 320M+ to our 35M+, of course they'll be able to do everything at a much bigger scale than we can. Sure we have Davies at Bayern who is an exceptional talent, but their base line is just so much higher than ours, that really, there is no rivalry. 7-8/10 times they still smack us.

  • This post lacks some significant depth
  • Raw talent is a natural ability
    • When I was talking about raw talent, I was referring to the youth players in each country and I stand by that statement
    • A lot more of our young top athletes per capita choose the sport compared to them
    • I'd wager that Jonathan David, had his family stayed in the USA, would have become Jonathan David the running back for the New York Giants....obviously that's a worthless hypothetical
  • Giving Mexico a run for their money in terms of domestic exports
    • I agree, all those young Americans on LA FC last night in their thrashing of the Whitecaps will be making their way to Europe shortly, oh wait, they were young South Americans and there wasn't an American in that starting eleven....ironically two Canadians though
    • Some European clubs have poached guys like Dortmund with Giovanni Reyna but was their a transfer fee involved?
  • Richest country in the world with a population ten times that of us
    • I agree, it does play a factor and I even mentioned that their large size and international club connections is their biggest asset, no argument here
  • 7/8 out of 10 times they smack us
    • Their only advantage is defense and they literally scored on their only four opportunities in the return match in Orlando
    • We get a guy like Tomori to commit and that nullifies their one advantage over us
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Their elite young core is broader than ours, and obviously their depth is much greater. They're coming off a down period in the program but they will likely be the best in CONCACAF within 2-3 years (IMO).

Mexico's floor is higher due to a better domestic league, but the USMNT's ceiling is much higher.

 

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1 hour ago, RS said:

Their elite young core is broader than ours, and obviously their depth is much greater. They're coming off a down period in the program but they will likely be the best in CONCACAF within 2-3 years (IMO).

Mexico's floor is higher due to a better domestic league, but the USMNT's ceiling is much higher.

 

I'm gonna pour a little cold water on this.

While the USA admittedly looks very strong on paper, today they are young.

2-3 years from now they'll still be young.

Dest for example will be just 22 when the world cup rolls around. Pulisic will be 24, so he'll be approaching his prime, but he won't be in it. 

My time frame for this group challenging or possibly overtaking Mexico is sometime in the 2026 cycle. At that point their golden generation will be in their prime and very likely more talent will be right behind them. I think 2-3 years is a little too soon for them.

I agree that Mexico has a higher floor. The other thing is that Mexicans have a uniform way of playing which I think gives them an edge. The USA may be stronger on paper, but how the pieces fit is important. We know the pieces will fit when it comes to Mexico. There is never a question there. 

Being good on paper only counts for so much. On paper we should have crushed Haiti. 

By the time 2026 rolls around I can see them trading the no. 1 spot back and forth. But even then, I still don't see the US dominating like Mexico is doing today. We'll see though.

Edited by Obinna
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And when it comes to Canada, I think for a while it looked like our young generation would keep up with theirs, but it's clear we are going to be out paced.

After Davies and David there is no 3rd great hope.

It should have been Tabla, but he faltered at Barcelona. It could be Millar, but we are still waiting for his big break through at club level. Nelsen is promising, but is being brought on too slowly at TFC for my liking. Byrn, Bassong, Borges and the like are not the same level. Yankov if he commits would be a good depth piece but nowhere near a Mckennie level player. Ferdi can be considered a legit number 3, but he'll likely play for the Dutch or Turkey.

So yeah, after Davies and David the shelves are a little bare in comparison to the riches the US have waiting in the wings.

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On 9/26/2020 at 9:14 PM, Obinna said:

And when it comes to Canada, I think for a while it looked like our young generation would keep up with theirs, but it's clear we are going to be out paced.

After Davies and David there is no 3rd great hope.

It should have been Tabla, but he faltered at Barcelona. It could be Millar, but we are still waiting for his big break through at club level. Nelsen is promising, but is being brought on too slowly at TFC for my liking. Byrn, Bassong, Borges and the like are not the same level. Yankov if he commits would be a good depth piece but nowhere near a Mckennie level player. Ferdi can be considered a legit number 3, but he'll likely play for the Dutch or Turkey.

So yeah, after Davies and David the shelves are a little bare in comparison to the riches the US have waiting in the wings.

For now.

I think we'll hit our stride and become comparable to them when the CPL fledges out and stabilizes in the coming years.

On 9/27/2020 at 10:40 AM, king1010 said:

Those games in Toronto* and Orlando were our best opportunity to surpass them. Unfortunately now their talent in the pipeline looks better than ours. However talent doesnt always equal results. 
 

World Cup is expanding to 48 teams and theres no reason why we cant be the third best team in Concacaf. 

Those were just games. We wouldn't have surpassed them with a victory in Orlando. 

On 9/26/2020 at 8:00 PM, RS said:

Their elite young core is broader than ours, and obviously their depth is much greater. They're coming off a down period in the program but they will likely be the best in CONCACAF within 2-3 years (IMO).

Mexico's floor is higher due to a better domestic league, but the USMNT's ceiling is much higher.

 

No argument here with anything that is stated.

I think they are overall a better team right now and they have more promising up and comers currently so they will be even better in the aforementioned timeframe. However, I think we will have a tremendous growth spurt as well in about 8-10 years time IMO, which will eventually create a big three scenario in CONCACAF.

Besides Pulisic, Weston Mckennie is the other absolute beast I admire and wish was Canadian.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see the United States become a world class team and I think that would mean nothing but good things for our program, interests and what not when it comes to spill over effects. 

 

 

Edited by Macksam
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Also posted in the Larin thread:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/seven-american-players-to-watch-in-final-weeks-of-transfer-window/ar-BB19vOtP

Tyler Boyd, Besiktas

The only reason the newly-minted USMNT man would be sold is if the Turkish side needs his international slot to acquire reinforcements at another position.

The 25-year-old winger has started all five of Besiktas’ matches this season between domestic play, Europa League, and the Champions League. He’s scored once, bringing his total with the Turkish side to four goals in 33 outings.

Where would he go? Doubtful he wants to go anywhere, but Rizespor has been mentioned. Besiktas’ other foreigners include two Canadians in Cyle Larin and Atiba Hutchinson.

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Dest is by no means a “sure thing” - world class potential, but many deficiencies in his game at this time  (according to interviews with a Dutch reporter I’ve heard on ESPN podcasts - perhaps ‘coachability’ / team-play may be an issue?). He wasn’t even first choice RB in the second half of last season at Ajax.

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6 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

Dest is by no means a “sure thing” - world class potential, but many deficiencies in his game at this time  (according to interviews with a Dutch reporter I’ve heard on ESPN podcasts - perhaps ‘coachability’ / team-play may be an issue?). He wasn’t even first choice RB in the second half of last season at Ajax.

I listened to a Dutch journalist being interviewed on ESPN FC last week where he said people there are a bit puzzled on Dest ending up with Barca. But happy they got so much money for a sub. 

Dest's strength is on the attack but he said not good enough as a defender and tactically to be at Barca levels at this point. 

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Pretty sure both of Pulisic's parents played as well. At least his Dad did for sure, his mom may have been an NCAA athlete in another sport. Cannot recall for sure. Having a dad as a star soccer player in NCAA is different than having your dad be Claudio Reyna though. Still, I would say Pulisic was also bred to play soccer.

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