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Macksam

USA National Team Watch

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I know some might think this should be in the "World Soccer" sub forum but since they are our biggest rival and our neighbour, I feel they should be in this sub forum for ease of access.

It's good to keep track of their progress for analytical purposes.

Even though I am of the opinion our raw youth talent per capita is a lot better in this country compared to the USA, I must say their size, money and international club connections affords them the luxury of having exciting prospects as well.

Case in point, Giovanni Reyna. Boy can play and I never even knew of this kid until yesterday when watching the game on Sportsnet. 

 

Edited by Macksam

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Well Giovanni it looks like inherited some very good soccer playing genes from his father Claudio Reyna probably one of the best American midfielders to ever play the game in my opinion. Sometimes it can really help when one already has that natural talent in you already when you are born lol. However, ya the kid can play and is one to look out for  that’s for sure.

Edited by SoccMan

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6 hours ago, Macksam said:

 

Case in point, Giovanni Reyna. Boy can play and I never even knew of this kid until yesterday when watching the game on Sportsnet. 

 

Reyna should have been on your radar as of last year when he played in u17 qualifying vs Canada. And if you even glanced at any US national team related website, the standard but uniquely American soccer gushing for him has been in overdrive for a couple of years.

So, we shouldn't just repeat US hype as they have a tendency to extrapolate a small sample of good showings to infinity. A classic example is Taylor Twellman feverishy stating in 2018 that agents told him there would be 20 Pulisic's in Europe by 2020.

 

I'm okay to keep tabs on the US but it should be really be all opponents watch. We don't really keep good tabs on opposing players especially in regards to Mexico - given how many top tier players they continually produce. 

Edited by red card

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I like the idea of this thread. We share a domestic league with them. They are our North American brothers. We share much in common in that we both have an uphill battle to make the sport relevant. We are both trying to grow the game and immigration has made the game more relevant in recent years.

For them that immigration is largely Latin American and that is increasingly reflected in the surnames and backgrounds of their players, whereas our immigration is more global and that is reflected in the backgrounds of our players (Liberia, Haiti, Jamaica, Colombia, Argentina, England, Portugal, Nigeria, Netherlands, etc.). The similarity and contrast in our evolutions is interesting.

I agree with the OP that we are more of a "soccer country" per capita than they are. I have spent enough time south of the boarder to get that sense. Maybe it is because football, baseball and basketball are not as dominant as they are in America. Maybe it is because we are closer to Europe, being a commonwealth country and all (plus Quebec is easily more European than any US state). Maybe it is because our attitude is more global and so we are more outward looking and less inward focused than they are. Maybe it is all of those things.

Either way, I like this. Good to have a catch-all place to keep tabs on them. I think we can seriously compete with then now and it will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

Edited by Obinna

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I don’t mind the purpose of this thread but I’m not sure if I agree with them being our “biggest rival”. They’re clearly a class above us and we’ve beaten them once in like 30 years? To me Honduras is more of a rival and more the immediate concern on a team we need to overtake.

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1 hour ago, Floortom said:

I don’t mind the purpose of this thread but I’m not sure if I agree with them being our “biggest rival”. They’re clearly a class above us and we’ve beaten them once in like 30 years? To me Honduras is more of a rival and more the immediate concern on a team we need to overtake.

I agree with this and I think even Jamaica can be considered a pretty big rival as well.

Edited by Obinna

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32 minutes ago, Norrin Radd said:

The US best 11 according to Matt Doyle. How do we compare position to position?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/22/matt-doyles-best-hypothetical-us-mens-national-team-starting-xi

Well this maybe be a bit controversial but unfortunately I feel we are slightly weaker in most positions :( but comparable in some. However Larin/Cavallini are both far better than Sargent, David is a better attacking mid than Reyna who is still pretty green, Borjan is better than Turner but is probably at the same level as Steffen but Borjan is more experienced. Our CBs are a significantly worse, Laryea/ZBG aren't too far off if not comparable to Cannon but all our LB options aren't comparable to Dest even when he's out of position. Hutchinson is probably better than Adams and McKennie mainly down to his experience but our other mids aren't as good. Davies and Pulisic are at a similar level but Davies has more pace and is more versatile. Hoilett is better than Morris mainly cause he has played at a higher level. The good news is Berhalter is a bad coach and we should be able to beat them still.

Edited by Nate3322

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2 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

The US best 11 according to Matt Doyle. How do we compare position to position?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/22/matt-doyles-best-hypothetical-us-mens-national-team-starting-xi

The top end talent is similar but they have much more consistent quality, no black holes like we do (CB) and better depth. Can we bear them ? Sure, like we did last year. But they’re clearly better and should consistently handle us 

Edited by Floortom

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On 9/20/2020 at 7:15 PM, Obinna said:

I like the idea of this thread. We share a domestic league with them. They are our North American brothers. We share much in common in that we both have an uphill battle to make the sport relevant. We are both trying to grow the game and immigration has made the game more relevant in recent years.

For them that immigration is largely Latin American and that is increasingly reflected in the surnames and backgrounds of their players, whereas our immigration is more global and that is reflected in the backgrounds of our players (Liberia, Haiti, Jamaica, Colombia, Argentina, England, Portugal, Nigeria, Netherlands, etc.). The similarity and contrast in our evolutions is interesting.

I agree with the OP that we are more of a "soccer country" per capita than they are. I have spent enough time south of the boarder to get that sense. Maybe it is because football, baseball and basketball are not as dominant as they

Yes.  Off the pitch,  there are a ton off similarities and challenges that game faces in both canada and the US.   In that regard, there doesnt exist two countries around the world with such similarities in these regards; except maybe australia and new zealand.  So it should be important to follow whats happening south of the border.   There are things that they do (good or bad) that we learn from.  Unlike europe, where everything is different culturally and institutionally and hence cant be applied here. 

For example, I often hear talk here that we dont get respect internationally,  well they dont either.  Aside from the fact that they missed the last WC,  They have played and measured up well against European and SA oppoenents at other WC’s but still, overseas people want to think of north american as the land of other sports,  so there is a comfort level in dismissing whatever good happens.  Thats what awaits us.

 

Edited by Free kick

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Looks like Barcelona will be completing a move for Dest, so he won't be joining Davies at Bayern, which I am glad about. I like that our guy is with the UCL title holders, I don't want him sharing the limelight with Dest.

American fans on MLSsoccer.com were all giddy like:

"wow Bayern will now have two north America fullbacks"

or

"imagine a backline with Davies, Dest and Richards". 

Puke. Maybe it is the CanMNT fan in me, but there is something revolting about that. I guess such reactions are normal when you are the fan of a lesser player.

Case in point, David is a better player than Weah, so when he joined Lille who were the ones jumping for joy that 2 North Americans would be playing for a big club? Of course it was the usmnt fans, not us. David was the big news, but they took the opportunity to name drop Weah,  talking about both of them forming a "dynamic duo" lol. Meanwhile, if any of us brought up Weah at all it was to note that David will push him down the depth chart (and so far we were right).

Edited by Obinna

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14 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

The US best 11 according to Matt Doyle. How do we compare position to position?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/22/matt-doyles-best-hypothetical-us-mens-national-team-starting-xi

I suspect that, knowing that the 2026 WC will be in North america, they will go with a very young squad in 2022 WCQ and (if they qualify) in the WC.  

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16 hours ago, Norrin Radd said:

The US best 11 according to Matt Doyle. How do we compare position to position?

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/09/22/matt-doyles-best-hypothetical-us-mens-national-team-starting-xi

Turner (Steffan) - I raise my eyebrows at that one, but I haven't watched him much to be fair. Hard to imagine Steffan is not the no. 1 with Guzan behind him. I would take Steffan over Borjan, but I would take Borjan over any other US keeper. The reason I would take Steffan over Borjan is because of the back passing errors we have seen. Otherwise I would be equally comfortable with either or. 

Draw

Cannon - Good player but overrated in my opinion. I knew he wasn't going to go to the Bundesliga as early reports stated. Boavista clearly have an ambitious project signing him and now Alberth Elis, so we'll see what happens. Anyhow, I would put Cannon in the same category as Brault-Guillard just based on the eye test. I know Cannon has like 4x greater market value right now on transfermarkt, but I don't see a clear advantage that Cannon has over ZBG. Both are good two-way full backs who don't make a lot of mistakes and do the little things right. Both are fast. Cannon has a little more experience, despite both being the same age. 

Draw

Brooks - Not much to say here. He is better than any of our center backs.

USA

Long - Same as Brooks.

USA

Dest - Short answer is that he's a better full back than anyone we have. Long answer is that is true excluding Davies (in theory). He hasn't excelled at left back for Canada yet, but right now Davies is ahead of Dest at club level. But yeah, if I don't count Davies I would say Dest is easily better than Miller and Adekugbe. Layrea at left back will be/would be good for Canada. He is improving so much as a left sided player for TFC, but if I had to choose I would take Dest. 

USA

Adams - This one is tricky. I think overall Hutchinson and Adams are equally effective despite being on opposite sides of the age spectrum. Obviously Adams has more upside than a 38 year old Hutchinson, but the vast experience of Atiba makes him very effective. I will call it a draw. If we are talking Eustaquio I would reluctantly go with Adams. Why reluctantly, because I think our guy has such great technique and vision. He is the type of player Canada needs. Very hard for me not to choose him. Adams being younger and playing with Leipzig means I almost have to choose him, but I honestly feel Eustaquio would be with a club of comparable size if he wasn't derailed with the ACL injury. There are no signs it is hampering him, so we'll see how the next few years pan out, but I get the feeling Eustaquio is every bit of a high level player as Adams, at least technically. I suspect Adams has leadership and other intangible qualities that give him an edge, but again we'll see how both their careers shape up.

Draw (kinda USA)

McKennie - Also tricky. Scott Arfield to Mckennie is like Atiba to Adams, so I won't rehash all of that. If we are talking about Kaye or Osorio, I think we have two players who are a slight notch below, but when push comes to shove there is not a big gap between either of those guys and Mckennie. Once again, I will say that upside due to age favours McKennie. 

Draw (kinda USA)

Reyna - I will put him up against David. Really, it is hard to judge a 17 year old who hasn't even played for their national team. Obviously we see what he is doing at Dortmund is incredible given his age. David has scored 11 in 12 for Canada and just moved to Lille for 30 million Euros. I think you have to give it to David and keep an eye on Reyna to see what happens with him.  

Canada

Morris - I hate to say it but I think he's actually a very good player and I would disagree that Junior is clearly a level better than him. I think more fairly you can say both roughly the same level of player with two very different styles to how they play. Give me either and I am happy. We lack creative players so I would want Junior for that reason, but take nothing away from Morris. It's pretty much a draw.

Draw

Pulisic - I put him up against Davies here. I mean, you can make an argument either way. Pulisic is playing as a winger for Chelsea and had an up and down but overall successful first season in the EPL. Davies was not playing as a winger but his side crushed Chelsea (without Pulisic) and won the treble, with Davies playing a key role. He has now won many more trophies than Pulisic and is two years younger. He out played him in Nations League. I will go with a draw to be fair, but if you ask me who I want it is Davies for his versatility. 

Draw (kinda Canada)

Sargent - Good young player who is not scoring as much as people would like but he is playing in the Bundesliga at the age of 19/20 so he obviously has something. He is 5 years younger than Larin and is playing in a better league, but Besiktas is arguably a better club right now. However, I don't think many people would argue with putting both around the same level based on their current states. I think Cyle Larin scoring 15 goals for Besiktas this season is worth Josh Sargent scoring 10 for Werder Bremen. My money would be on Larin reaching that tally before Sargent scoring that many for Bremen though. I call it a draw with a slight edge to Canada.

Draw (kinda Canada)

Edited by Obinna

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Anyone denying the USMNT is not the better team based on raw talent is just delusional. Don't like them, but when it comes to resources and the number of high level prospect they have (and their opportunities for development), we just don't compete. They'll be giving Mexico a serious run for their money in terms of domestic exports to Europe very soon (if not already). They are the richest country in the world, and have a pop or 320M+ to our 35M+, of course they'll be able to do everything at a much bigger scale than we can. Sure we have Davies at Bayern who is an exceptional talent, but their base line is just so much higher than ours, that really, there is no rivalry. 7-8/10 times they still smack us.

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