Quinny coming out as transgendered

[Blackdude]

Some news here. Quinny, who still plays for us at the national team level as a centre back and a defensive midfielder as come out as transgender and uses they/them pronouns. They're still playing in Sweden right now. I don't know what it means for their future with the national team though, but the fact that they are still playing with women as of now, so I'd assume that they'd still be eligible to play for us. You can read their instagram post below. 

 

 

[Kent]

Any idea if Quinny is their new name or is that just an online handle?

I would assume/hope if their is no hormone therapy that there would be no debate about their eligibility.

[Blackdude]

Just now, Kent said:

Any idea if Quinny is their new name or is that just an online handle?

I would assume/hope if their is no hormone therapy that there would be no debate about their eligibility.

I don't know. I'm using Quinny since that is what they use on their social media pages in their name slot. Had they used other names, I would have use that instead. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Blackdude said:

I don't know. I'm using Quinny since that is what they use on their social media pages in their name slot. Had they used other names, I would have use that instead. 

The second post on the @TheQuinny5 Twitter identifies her as Rebecca Quinn. 

[Blackdude]

2 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

The second post on the @TheQuinny5 Twitter identifies 

First stop misgendering them. They've just come out. I Second, their twitter handle shows Quinny in their name slot. That's why I didn't mention that name because that's what they are going by on their social whether it's intagram or twitter. TSN has only used their last name in their article.   https://www.tsn.ca/canadian-soccer-player-quinn-comes-out-publicly-as-transgender-1.1521274

https://twitter.com/TheQuinny5

https://www.instagram.com/thequinny5/

Their name on both twitter and instagram is Quinny. I know some people use surnames, but since they've come out as trans, I think we should stop mentioning their dead name even though we've known them by that dead name. I know it's the hard part, but it's an important step to understand their coming out. 

[SthMelbRed]

29 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

First stop misgendering them. They've just come out. I Second, their twitter handle shows Quinny in their name slot. That's why I didn't mention that name because that's what they are going by on their social whether it's intagram or twitter. TSN has only used their last name in their article.   https://www.tsn.ca/canadian-soccer-player-quinn-comes-out-publicly-as-transgender-1.1521274

https://twitter.com/TheQuinny5

https://www.instagram.com/thequinny5/

Their name on both twitter and instagram is Quinny. I know some people use surnames, but since they've come out as trans, I think we should stop mentioning their dead name even though we've known them by that dead name. I know it's the hard part, but it's an important step to understand their coming out. 

@TheQuinny5 has never appeared on a CWNT roster. In order for this thread to have relevance to the majority of people who aren't followers of that Twitter account, they must know the name under which this player has appeared for Canada. That name is Rebecca Quinn. 

[Blackdude]

2 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

@TheQuinny5 has never appeared on a CWNT roster. In order for this thread to have relevance to the majority of people who aren't followers of that Twitter account, they must know the name under which this player has appeared for Canada. 

Yes they have. And if you see their face, you would know it's them. If you don't recognize their name, it's because you don't know who they are, but if you've followed this team, you would know their former name which I won't use for the reasons I've mentioned.

[SthMelbRed]

1 minute ago, Blackdude said:

Yes they have. And if you see their face, you would know it's them. If you don't recognize their name, it's because you don't know who they are, but if you've followed this team, you would know their former name which I won't use for the reasons I've mentioned.

I watch CWNT matches from all major tournaments, read about all other results, follow a few of the top players on social media, as well as the main CSA account, and am a semi-regular reader of threads on this sub-forum. I had no idea who @TheQuinny5 was based on the Twitter handle, so I clicked further and found the necessary information I needed to put this thread into context. I shared that information here so the context is self-contained in this thread. I've explained that to you, so you can stop trying to shame me for it. It's not working.

[Blackdude]

Just now, SthMelbRed said:

I watch CWNT matches from all major tournaments, read about all other results, follow a few of the top players on social media, as well as the main CSA account, and am a semi-regular reader of threads on this sub-forum. I had no idea who @TheQuinny5 was based on the Twitter handle, so I clicked further and found the necessary information I needed to put this thread into context. I shared that information here so the context is self-contained in this thread. I've explained that to you, so you can stop trying to shame me for it. It's not working.

This information is not needed. If you don't know that who TheQuinny5 is when the player on the national team who wore the number 5's last name is Quinn, it's probably them. If you don't understand that naming someone by a name that is hurtful to them. Could I have added more information about who they are like the person who went to Duke and who is the highest Canadian player to be drafted in NWSL and who has played centre back and defensive midfield for our women's team. However, I felt that with the information available that one who would care about that would know, but not deadname her.

[Patrick]

Ok, so if a trans-woman IS a woman, then a trans-man IS a man.  Should this man, who we seem to be having difficulty naming, be playing on the CWNT?  I wouldn't want to mis-gender them by saying they play on the women's team.  

Of course, it's possible I don't really care that much about Rebecca Quinn's personal life nor if she/they decides to continue to play on the national team.  It might be that I simply don't want to be lectured by some hypocrite-dude on the Internet about misgendering someone when that person is apparently fine with being mis-gendered when it comes to where they play.

 

[Blackdude]

19 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Ok, so if a trans-woman IS a woman, then a trans-man IS a man.  Should this man, who we seem to be having difficulty naming, be playing on the CWNT?  I wouldn't want to mis-gender them by saying they play on the women's team.  

Of course, it's possible I don't really care that much about  Quinn's personal life nor if they decide to continue to play on the national team.  It might be that I simply don't want to be lectured by some hypocrite-dude on the Internet about misgendering someone when that person is apparently fine with being mis-gendered when it comes to where they play.

 

We only have a difficulty naming them because they don't want to go yet publicly with their new name which is fine. And should they play on the CWNT? Well they were trans for a while, it wasn't any different than it was when they came out to people in the soccer world and I would think that it's something that they were thinking about. I think if Quinn didn't feel included on the women's team, that they would have quit the team a while ago. They didn't and I'm sure that they were accepted by their teammates. That's the thing that matters. It's a difficult and complicated journey, but please don't give me something like oh they were playing on a women's team. They're playing women's soccer because the rules allow them to play women's sports as long as they don't do hormone replacement therapy. 

[Blackdude]

That's why their former name should never be mentioned. Deadnaming hurts trans people. 

[yomurphy1]

2 hours ago, Blackdude said:

That's why their former name should never be mentioned. Deadnaming hurts trans people. 

Sorry but what name are they asking to be used? 

[Blackdude]

26 minutes ago, yomurphy1 said:

Sorry but what name are they asking to be used? 

Well they're using Quinn on their socials, so Quinn. 

[yomurphy1]

8 hours ago, Blackdude said:

Well they're using Quinn on their socials, so Quinn. 

But that's a their last name... I mean it's cool if you want to only go by one name but you need to make that clear and not be shocked when people reach for the only other name that's been associated with the last name. 

First name, last name is the most common way to identify people, trans or not, so again adding another layer of complication is likely going make others screw up. 

Anyhow I wish them well.

[Kent]

I haven’t read the reports, but I hope reporters are at least allowed to use their dead name to give context for the reader? Especially if say, hypothetically the trans person went through with procedures that FIFA deemed make them ineligible for women’s soccer. They should be able to report that so fans aren’t left to figure out months later that they haven’t seen that player for a while and wonder what happened to them.

If using their dead name in that context isn’t allowed, is it because of a fear of violence against them? If it puts the trans person at significant risk, then I can understand it. I hope we don’t live in a world where that would be the case, but perhaps it is?

[Blackdude]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I haven’t read the reports, but I hope reporters are at least allowed to use their dead name to give context for the reader? Especially if say, hypothetically the trans person went through with procedures that FIFA deemed make them ineligible for women’s soccer. They should be able to report that so fans aren’t left to figure out months later that they haven’t seen that player for a while and wonder what happened to them.

If using their dead name in that context isn’t allowed, is it because of a fear of violence against them? If it puts the trans person at significant risk, then I can understand it. I hope we don’t live in a world where that would be the case, but perhaps it is?

No, it's not needed. The more important context is to make the reader understand that deadnaming people is not acceptable. 

[finchster]

On 9/13/2020 at 3:21 AM, yomurphy1 said:

But that's a their last name... I mean it's cool if you want to only go by one name but you need to make that clear and not be shocked when people reach for the only other name that's been associated with the last name. 

First name, last name is the most common way to identify people, trans or not, so again adding another layer of complication is likely going make others screw up. 

Anyhow I wish them well.

Yeah, if a person is changing their identity, especially a somewhat famous person, the onus is on them to tell the media how they want to be referred to now.  A social media nickname isn't sufficient.

Edited September 17, 2020 by finchster

[Shway]

I'm curious to know if they are on hormones? And if so, does that end their time with the CWNT?
I'm also curious to know how they feel about playing in the National Womens Soccer League, especially if they don't identify as one. I wonder if there are any rules regarding this.

All I'm reading is questions regarding the sport, not the person.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Shway

[_Vic_]

This is a highly politicized topic in world athletics, especially track and field. That this has been so civil is a testament to the posters so far.

I think we're only in the infancy of the development of the issues and it will continue to evolve and move over time.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

BBC article. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54233946

[RJB]

This player will continue to be eligible for the CWNT because their sex remains female to my understanding.  And so this is a good example perhaps of the difference between gender and sex.  

I think a big part of this is that they have only recently come out publicly, and that privately - presumably including teammates - people knew about this for some time.  And so that kind of makes the matter of whether they should be eligible further moot.  

Good for them.  These are important conversations to have and it's so great for others to have a role model setting the example going forward.  Keep up the good work!

Finally, people get married and we use their new name.  Chad Johnson became Ochocinco and people used that name.  Musicians change their name and people stick to the new one - P Diddy, John Cougar, etc.  Surely people can use this persons chosen name going forward as it just isn't that hard. 

[SthMelbRed]

37 minutes ago, RJB said:

Finally, people get married and we use their new name.  Chad Johnson became Ochocinco and people used that name.  Musicians change their name and people stick to the new one - P Diddy, John Cougar, etc.  Surely people can use this persons chosen name going forward as it just isn't that hard. 

Person A: Ochocinco? Who's that?

Person B: You know him. He used to play in the NFL.

Person A: Joe Montana?

Person B: No. He played for the Bengals.

Person A: Boomer Esiason?

Person B: No. He's black.

Person A: James Brooks?

Person B: No. He used to do the end zone celebrations.

Person A: Ickey Woods?

Person B: No. He was a receiver.

Person A: Oh! You mean Chad Johnson.

Person B: How dare you say that! You're a serial killer!

***********

Person X: Ochocinco? Who's that?

Person Y: You know him. He used to be Chad Johnson.

Person X: Oh yeah! Wait. He's not called Chad Johnson anymore?

Person Y: Nah. He prefers to be called Ochocinco now.

Person X: Really? Okay. What's Ochocinco done, now?

 

Now, I ask you...which of the two above conversations is going to do more to promote understanding amongst reasonable people? Non-dickheads have no problem referring to Mohammed Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar by their adopted names. However, nobody is condemned for saying that Ali won an Olympic gold medal as Cassius Clay in 1960 or that Kareem was a standout college basketball player at UCLA as Lew Alcindor. It's a historical fact that a player named Rebecca Quinn represented Canada at the most-recent FIFA Women's World Cup. If that player now wishes to be referred to by a different name, that's no problem. It doesn't negatively affect my life to use whatever name they prefer from this point forward. However, nothing can change the history to which I just referred. 

Simple fact. Ask reasonable people to behave reasonably, and they will. Treat those same people like dickheads and they'll quickly tell you to go fuck yourself.

[Blackdude]

Good to know where the transphobes are at. 

[SthMelbRed]

^^^Illustrated my point perfectly. Thank you.