Match Thread: Island Games - September 5, 2020 - Forge v Valour

[narduch]

Match is at Noon ET on One Soccer. (1pm ET tape delay on CBC). Radio on TSN 1150 Hamilton.

According to the Sports Club Stats page Forge have already qualified for the next stage. The big question is will they meet the U21 requirements.

Valour sit 2 points out of the top 4. They need a win and help from some of the other teams to advance.

[Ruffian]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

According to the Sports Club Stats page Forge have already qualified for the next stage. The big question is will they meet the U21 requirements.

I believe there is still a scenario where they don't make it even if they play their U21 requirements.

[narduch]

41 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I believe there is still a scenario where they don't make it even if they play their U21 requirements.

There is a possibility of a 5 way tie.

Not sure what that means. As I assume you can't use the 1st tie breaker in that situation (head to head)

[toontownman]

There could be a 5 way tie on points but these were the released tie breakers. So unless they are deducted points for not meeting u21 minutes (which will never happen) they are through.

1. Head-to-head

2. Goal diff.

3. Goals for

4. Total # of wins

5. *Most U-21 minutes* in round

6. Coin toss or drawing of lots

[gator]

As crazy as a 5 way tie sounds it isn't as far fetched as some may think, Valour beats Forge, York9 and Cavalry draw, Atletico beats Halifax and Pacific beat the Eddies! I wonder what that would pay out on a betting voucher?

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

Valour are really missing Bustos.  

We don't have the quality up front.  

Much improved at the back and in goal.

Unfortunately (for Valour) the entire league has improved.  

 

 

[Bison44]

1 minute ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

 

Valour are really missing Bustos.  

We don't have the quality up front.  

Much improved at the back and in goal.

Unfortunately (for Valour) the entire league has improved.  

Even worse, a big chunk of the improvements are loans.  

[toontownman]

Any update on AJB? That could be a game changer right there. Dunn and AJB have been arguably the best central pairing in the league. 

[jonovision]

My only hope for a Valour win is if in fact Forge have clinched a spot in the next round, they send out an A minus lineup, including the required Canadian content. I don't see how Valour scores a goal against a full strength Forge side if they couldn't against the likes of HFX or York.

[Winnipeg Fury]

2 minutes ago, jonovision said:

My only hope for a Valour win is if in fact Forge have clinched a spot in the next round, they send out an A minus lineup, including the required Canadian content. I don't see how Valour scores a goal against a full strength Forge side if they couldn't against the likes of HFX or York.

 

That's what I was thinking and I think that's a real possibility.  

 

[narduch]

Well I guess Forge have advanced.

 

[Senorpopps]

So, if five teams end up with 11 points, which is possible, do you think they'd go with goal differential or head-to-head record for each of those teams against each other - meaning taking four games into consideration and whoever has the worst record against the other top teams drops out ...

Edited September 5, 2020 by Senorpopps

[jonovision]

Due to injuries Valour forced to go with a 3-5-2 with Ohin (yikes) and Le Bourhis (double yikes) in the back three. They had better score a bunch of goals because there's no way they don't ship 2 or 3.

(Three of their first choice back four players are out injured).

Edited September 5, 2020 by jonovision

[jonovision]

 

[narduch]

 

[jonovision]

Forge is starting Maan and Mohsen so it looks like the claims that Maan wasn't fit, when asking for the extension to satisfy the U21 minutes requirement, were simply the team seeing what they might be able to get away with.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

6 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Forge is starting Maan and Mohsen so it looks like the claims that Maan wasn't fit, when asking for the extension to satisfy the U21 minutes requirement, were simply the team seeing what they might be able to get away with.

Because it never happens in sports where a player plays when the team was unsure if the player was fit a couple days ago 😁

[jonovision]

The injury worries about a goalkeeper that hasn't played a minute seemed pretty suspect.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

32 minutes ago, jonovision said:

The injury worries about a goalkeeper that hasn't played a minute seemed pretty suspect.

Again players pick up knocks in training all the time.  And sometimes they aren't sure until the day of whether they play or not.

I get that Forge asking for rules to be changed looks terrible.  But I think they asked because of Cela being hurt and Maan being questionable, not that they made up injuries as an excuse to ask to bend the rules.

[jonovision]

Just now, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Again players pick up knocks in training all the time.  And sometimes they aren't sure until the day of whether they play or not.

I get that Forge asking for rules to be changed looks terrible.  But I think they asked because of Cela being hurt and Maan being questionable, not that they made up injuries as an excuse to ask to bend the rules.

Let's hope that this is the case and that no teams are anywhere near to having to worry about the U21 minutes threshold in future seasons.

[jonovision]

And that's why you don't play a back three that includes Le Bourhis and a 5'2 midfielder.

[jonovision]

There are plenty of goals to come at both ends if that is the quality of keeping we can expect from Maan.

[Shortdutchcanuck]

7 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Let's hope that this is the case and that no teams are anywhere near to having to worry about the U21 minutes threshold in future seasons.

I think they need to have a clearly defined penalty before seasons start.  I don't think the issue goes away, these there is a lot of pressure on coaches to win.  You look at Paulus, focusing toi much on players from academy and not enough on winning could cost him his job.  The league is already more competitive this year, and for those teams in contention it  will always be more tempting to depend on veteran players than for teams out of contention.  Which is why you need the rule in the first place.

You take Bobby: on the one hand his whole career he's been about developing young Canadian players.  On the other hand, he's got a career of of his own that might involve aspirations beyond this league.  How good would it look on his resume to have back to back Canadian Championships and do well in CONCACAF league again?  But Forge resigned almost everyone and there are vets at every position and on bench that he trusts.

So the league (and Bob Young) needs to back up its talk and have clear penalties in place for next year.  Otherwise why wouldn't Bobby play his vets and take a fine?

 

 

[jonovision]

5th injury of the tournament to a Valour player playing in defense.

Edit: Excuse me, 6th. Forgot about the forgettable Hocine.

Edited September 5, 2020 by jonovision

[xcalibre]

2 hours ago, Senorpopps said:

So, if five teams end up with 11 points, which is possible, do you think they'd go with goal differential or head-to-head record for each of those teams against each other - meaning taking four games into consideration and whoever has the worst record against the other top teams drops out ...

Yeah, first tiebreaker is head-to-head, so I think you'd look at a "mini-table" of the 5 involved teams.

Forge have 8 from the games involving Forge-Cavs-York9-Atleti-Pacific

At least one of the rest must have less in the event of a Cavs-York9 draw (needed for the 5-way tie)

i.e. anyone whose taken 4+ points off the Eddies/HFX/Valour

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by xcalibre