Opponent watch: Suriname (why they have the potential to be a tough team)

[Boominbooty]

12 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

I think this take is sort of silly. 2018 Panama had just 5 players in Europe, and 2 of those were in Slovakia and Romania. If Suriname get all of their callups, they'll have a full Euro starting 11. Of course we should beat them, but there's a universe where we make the World Cup, and there's a universe where we lose to Suriname.

And in the universe where we lose to Suriname - we should close the program. 
A team of euro based players means zilch. Canada could play plenty of teams that only have their domestic players and lose (most of South America actually) but against Suriname we should win. If we can’t get out of this round something is fundamentally flawed. 

[PiedPilko]

15 minutes ago, Fullback said:

I think we should know about how having players playing in Europe means jackshit.

We can’t have this talk where sometimes we say we are looking like a top CONCACAF side but also we might lose to Suriname. We should beat them and if we lose it is an embarrassment

What if they have a better squad than Honduras, El Salvador and Panama? And who said we're a top side in concacaf? We've done literally nothing to prove that.  We're setting ourselves up for a massive disappointment. Can someone point out where this huge difference between our squads? Having the 2 best players doesn't automatically put us in another league when they have better players at multiple positions.

Edited February 24, 2021 by PiedPilko

[CanadaFan123]

48 minutes ago, Boominbooty said:

And in the universe where we lose to Suriname - we should close the program. 
A team of euro based players means zilch. Canada could play plenty of teams that only have their domestic players and lose (most of South America actually) but against Suriname we should win. If we can’t get out of this round something is fundamentally flawed. 

Care to elaborate on this logic? They have a team of good footballers, arguably stronger than Haiti, Trinidad or Honduras.

If that means nothing then surely us having a good squad means nothing as well? Hell, we will not have played an A match in 16 months come WCQ. 

[Boominbooty]

22 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Care to elaborate on this logic? They have a team of good footballers, arguably stronger than Haiti, Trinidad or Honduras.

If that means nothing then surely us having a good squad means nothing as well? Hell, we will not have played an A match in 16 months come WCQ. 

I am not even talking about our top 2. If you look at transfermarkt  our player value versus theirs we trounce them. We are in the top 70th in the world they are in the top 140th. I know on a given day anything can happen but if we are thinking of doing anything in Concacaf and getting to the top 8 this should not be the team we are worried about. We can’t take them for granted but if this is where we fall then we are screwed as a soccer nation. 

[One American]

IF the AZ guy means they are not getting Riedewald, then it's a net positive. 

[PiedPilko]

17 minutes ago, Boominbooty said:

I am not even talking about our top 2. If you look at transfermarkt  our player value versus theirs we trounce them. We are in the top 70th in the world they are in the top 140th. I know on a given day anything can happen but if we are thinking of doing anything in Concacaf and getting to the top 8 this should not be the team we are worried about. We can’t take them for granted but if this is where we fall then we are screwed as a soccer nation. 

Are you talking about the Suriname listed right now on Transfermarkt, because that Suriname has none of their passport callups. They have 2 CB's who would start for us (one in EPL), a winger in Bundesliga, and plenty of others in Eredivisie, decent teams in Europe and Leerdam on Seattle. I'm not gonna do it now, but I'd be surprised if they weren't more valuable than Panama, Honduras and El Salvador. 

 

I 100% agree with you if this were about Bermuda. If we lose in March, that's a legitimate failure for our program. Suriname is very capable of beating us.

Edited February 24, 2021 by PiedPilko

[CanadaFan123]

25 minutes ago, Boominbooty said:

I am not even talking about our top 2. If you look at transfermarkt  our player value versus theirs we trounce them. We are in the top 70th in the world they are in the top 140th. I know on a given day anything can happen but if we are thinking of doing anything in Concacaf and getting to the top 8 this should not be the team we are worried about. We can’t take them for granted but if this is where we fall then we are screwed as a soccer nation. 

Top 140 without their current players.. this will be a new team.

[Boominbooty]

5 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

Are you talking about the Suriname listed right now on Transfermarkt, because that Suriname has none of their passport callups. They have 2 CB's who would start for us (one in EPL), a winger in Bundesliga, and plenty of others in Eredivisie, decent teams in Europe and Leerdam on Seattle. I'm not gonna do it now, but I'd be surprised if they weren't more valuable than Panama, Honduras and El Salvador. 

 

I 100% agree with you if this were about Bermuda, but this team is very capable of beating us.

You can look in transfermarkt at a country by all their players who have committed to the country (including the ones announced over the last week or two) based on value. They have 5 players value at over $1M USD. We have 18, 19 if you include Akinola. 
They are stronger than Bermuda for sure. But. again, they are not the team we should be tripping over.

 

[PiedPilko]

9 minutes ago, Boominbooty said:

You can look in transfermarkt at a country by all their players who have committed to the country (including the ones announced over the last week or two) based on value. They have 5 players value at over $1M USD. We have 18, 19 if you include Akinola. 
They are stronger than Bermuda for sure. But. again, they are not the team we should be tripping over.

 

Ugh could you give me the link? I only see 5 people listed. 

[narduch]

They could become the next Curacao I guess.

I'm laughing at the Trensfermarket comments. May as well compare FIFA and Football Manager stats as well while we're at it.

One issue they will have is team chemistry. 

[An Observer]

Looking at Suriname, they are a country that could qualify out of Concacaf for the World Cup.  I am not saying they are favoured to do so or that they will but just that its a realistic possibility.  And the problem for us is that its one match, it likely will on a neutral ground negating our homefield advantage, and we wont have played a match against a decent opponent for over a year and half by then (i don't count Bermuda as decent).  Of course, they won't have played together much either but in normal circumstances that would be a huge advantage for us but isn't now.

[One American]

• Their best recruit, on paper, is Sheraldo Becker. WhoScored has him at #94 in the Bundesliga. So mid-level starter, roughly. That's probably somewhere in between Eustaquio and Larin as far as this year's performance. So, there are maybe 3 Canadian players having better years than Suriname's best player.
• Then it's Larin and Atiba a little ahead of Donk. So Canada should have five of the first six guys. Then it's Arfield and  Borjan.  
• After that, their players are actually pretty weak, despite some nice club names. The Erredivisie is a good league. But the group of players they have, on WhoScored, are in the 6.4-6.5 range. That's about 180-220 out of 280.
• The new guy from AZ has a 6.1 this year after being in that 6.5 range for a while, so it seems like age is catching up.
• Their C-Ship guy has a 6.1 and has always been around that level.
• WhoScored has Mitchell Donald as the #286 player (out of 336) in Turkey.
• Honestly, Kevin Leerdam, who was a top 50 player on the Sounders, might be their third-best player. CORRECTION: Leerdam, at least according to WS, had an off-season last year, after a good run of seasons. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by One American

[Boominbooty]

1 hour ago, PiedPilko said:

Ugh could you give me the link? I only see 5 people listed. 

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/mw/land_id/161

[Boominbooty]

And Canada:

https://www.transfermarkt.us/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/mw/land_id/80

[Boominbooty]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

They could become the next Curacao I guess.

I'm laughing at the Trensfermarket comments. May as well compare FIFA and Football Manager stats as well while we're at it.

One issue they will have is team chemistry. 

Fair enough re. transfermarkt but it and whoscored are the best we’ve got. Canada has not played since Jan 2020 and I think Suriname last played Nov 2019!!!

Edited February 24, 2021 by Boominbooty

[An Observer]

1 hour ago, Boominbooty said:

Fair enough re. transfermarkt but it and whoscored are the best we’ve got. Canada has not played since Jan 2020 and I think Suriname last played Nov 2019!!!

It actually doesn't matter when Suriname last played as the side they have now is totally different and improved.  Their ranking also doesn't matter for that reason as well.

[Fullback]

8 hours ago, PiedPilko said:

What if they have a better squad than Honduras, El Salvador and Panama? And who said we're a top side in concacaf? We've done literally nothing to prove that.  We're setting ourselves up for a massive disappointment. Can someone point out where this huge difference between our squads? Having the 2 best players doesn't automatically put us in another league when they have better players at multiple positions.

I’m saying a “better squad” on paper is so irrelevant in CONCACAF. How many times have we had a better squad on paper only for us to go down to Central America and get trounced? There is no way I’m more scared of Suriname than I am of a CA side.

 

Thats why I say looking like. I didn’t say we are a top CONCACAF side. You can see the excitement we have for this team now. Definitely haven’t seen this level of optimism in quite a while.

 

Maybe we are setting ourselves up for disappointment but we have every right to be disappointed if we lose to Suriname and get knocked out of qualifying. Regardless of Suriname picking up a bunch of 30+ European squad players.

[Kadenge]

This thread should read: How to simultaneously have a wet dream and an anxiety attack...the joys of being a Canadian men's soccer fan!

[PiedPilko]

4 hours ago, Fullback said:

I’m saying a “better squad” on paper is so irrelevant in CONCACAF. How many times have we had a better squad on paper only for us to go down to Central America and get trounced? There is no way I’m more scared of Suriname than I am of a CA side.

 

Thats why I say looking like. I didn’t say we are a top CONCACAF side. You can see the excitement we have for this team now. Definitely haven’t seen this level of optimism in quite a while.

 

Maybe we are setting ourselves up for disappointment but we have every right to be disappointed if we lose to Suriname and get knocked out of qualifying. Regardless of Suriname picking up a bunch of 30+ European squad players.

So how should we judge a team that has completely overhauled their player pool? Pretend they're still a bunch of nobodies playing in Suriname? I don't get this mentality... they have 2 CB's better than any of our CB's. They have a ton of depth that will match up closely with our MLS guys. When have we ever looked good against a team of this quality? 

 This concept that we're Canada, and we have a reputation and they're Suriname and they're a tiny little nation in another continent doesn't mean anything, when they have a lot of talent. Who cares if they're over 30? We're playing them this year! Atiba's 38, Arfield's 32, Borjan's 33... I don't think this means much.

[CanadaFan123]

16 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

So how should we judge a team that has completely overhauled their player pool? Pretend they're still a bunch of nobodies playing in Suriname? I don't get this mentality... they have 2 CB's better than any of our CB's. They have a ton of depth that will match up closely with our MLS guys. When have we ever looked good against a team of this quality? 

 This concept that we're Canada, and we have a reputation and they're Suriname and they're a tiny little nation in another continent doesn't mean anything, when they have a lot of talent. Who cares if they're over 30? We're playing them this year! Atiba's 38, Arfield's 32, Borjan's 33... I don't think this means much.

A reputation for being class in the first/second round of WCQ and flunking out in the 3rd?  

[baulderdash77]

Keep in mind that we are a completely different team than past years as well.  I’ve been following Canada for over 20 years and we really have never had this kind of top end players and depth of high quality players.  

Yes we don’t have great strength at CB but aside from that we have a superior base of talent and top end talent at every other position.  With the exception of Mexico and the US we should expect to beat every team in CONCACAF at the moment.

When other teams look at our talent- they immediately think- how will be be able to contain their attackers and midfield.

I know that this is Canada but we have to change our attitude.  We have to expect to beat the mid level CONCACAF teams.  Certainly it would be an upset if we lost to any of them at the moment.

[SCF08]

I've tried making a team with players that they're currently looking like getting before March. It's a pretty interesting first group of new additions.

 

_______________  Hahn_______________
Dankerlui__Donk__Pinas__Nelom___
_______________Donald________________
_______Leerdam_______Riedewald____
_________________Chery________________
Becker_______________________Biseswar

They are really lacking a proper striker at the moment. All the other spots are pretty solid really. They could maybe move Chery to right wing and play Becker striker but they have play a bit more on the counter for that to be successful. Wonder if they're trying to get Queensy Menig from Twente. Not really a striker as well but a bit more technical than Becker who is just pure pace and power so if they can get him, they're a real danger up front as well. Kerk from Utrecht would be sensational as well. Bit similar to Becker but better as a 9 as well.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, SCF08 said:

I've tried making a team with players that they're currently looking like getting before March. It's a pretty interesting first group of new additions.

 

_______________  Hahn_______________
Dankerlui__Donk__Pinas__Nelom___
_______________Donald________________
_______Leerdam_______Riedewald____
_________________Chery________________
Becker_______________________Biseswar

They are really lacking a proper striker at the moment. All the other spots are pretty solid really. They could maybe move Chery to right wing and play Becker striker but they have play a bit more on the counter for that to be successful. Wonder if they're trying to get Queensy Menig from Twente. Not really a striker as well but a bit more technical than Becker who is just pure pace and power so if they can get him, they're a real danger up front as well. Kerk from Utrecht would be sensational as well. Bit similar to Becker but better as a 9 as well.

That's a pretty impressive 11. 

You know, it's too bad for the region that Canada would advance to the final round at the expense of Suriname, or vice versa. They are really developing along the path of Curacao and although I somewhat nervously await our game with them, and obviously want us to win, I am very much hoping for their success overall. 

By the way, they're group at the Gold Cup will involve Jamaica, Costa Rica and probably Guatemala will qualify for the last spot. This Suriname team and their new recruits suddenly makes for a very exciting and balanced group.

As for the other groups, Group A has Mexico, El Salvador Curacao (what I am hoping Suriname can be) and probably T&T, which is obviously Mexico's to lose but the race for second will be interesting. Group D will feature 3 teams (Panama, Honduras, Qatar) with a chance of winning, while Guyana is not so bad as far as minnows go. Last but not least, in our group USA are expected to win, but we are likely a no. 2 with a realistic chance at upsetting them, while Haiti/Bermuda in turn have a realistic chance of upsetting us. Martinique are good enough to take points off any team if they sleep on them. 

So in summary (and I know the GC talk is somewhat off topic), the improvement of Suriname really changes the complexion of things, especially for the 16-team Gold Cup. We've grown use to having anywhere from 2-4 minnows in the tournament, which kind of makes it a joke, but with Qatar's guest participation and an improved Suriname, I am really only expecting Guyana to be a minnow, maybe Martinique as well, but honestly that's as good as it's been for as long as I can remember. 

[archer21]

I don’t think it’s crazy to be excited about our team and also be a bit worried about Suriname. I think we are the better team but they are close enough that given a couple breaks, they could beat us. It’s similar to when we play USA/Mexico in the future. They’ll probably be the better team, but we’ve gotten to the point that we can give them a real game and maybe take points off them if we’re fortunate. Upsets happen, and that’s always going to be nerve racking for the favourites.

[El Hombre]

3 hours ago, SCF08 said:

I've tried making a team with players that they're currently looking like getting before March. It's a pretty interesting first group of new additions.

 

_______________  Hahn_______________
Dankerlui__Donk__Pinas__Nelom___
_______________Donald________________
_______Leerdam_______Riedewald____
_________________Chery________________
Becker_______________________Biseswar

They are really lacking a proper striker at the moment. All the other spots are pretty solid really. They could maybe move Chery to right wing and play Becker striker but they have play a bit more on the counter for that to be successful. Wonder if they're trying to get Queensy Menig from Twente. Not really a striker as well but a bit more technical than Becker who is just pure pace and power so if they can get him, they're a real danger up front as well. Kerk from Utrecht would be sensational as well. Bit similar to Becker but better as a 9 as well.

Player - Age - Where they're coming from

Hahn - 28 - Netherlands
Dankerlui - 24 - Netherlands
Donk - 34 - Turkey
Pinas - 22 - Netherlands
Nelom - 30 - Netherlands
Donald - 32 - Turkey
Leerdam - 30 - USA
Riedewald - 24 - England
Chery - 32 - Israel
Becker - 26 - Germany
Bieseswar - 32 - Greece

While they have added some interesting pieces, a number of these guys are no spring chickens.  Are they ready to fly from Europe to South America to North America in a short time frame on the Surinamese dime?  Definitely not a team to take lightly, but I like the way the schedule has fallen out.