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Opponent watch: Suriname (why they have the potential to be a tough team)


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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Kent said:

I've said it before, I think "golden generation" is a misnomer, I am just hoping this is our "participation ribbon" generation, because my big dream is that they participate in the World Cup. If we manage that, then maybe I'll dream up getting out of the group stage or getting a point or a goal.

i despise the "golden generation" label... its misleading, because as talented as the current group is, they have yet to accomplish anything to warrant that label, and until they do, they are not a "golden" generation. 

Edited by LeoH037
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Not to be a douche, but this is what WIKI defines it as.  But its like the goof ball ESPN talking heads trying to define what an "elite" quarterback is.  

golden generation or golden team is an exceptionally gifted group of players of similar age, whose achievements reach or are expected to reach a level of success beyond that which their team had previously achieved.

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Yeah but this Canada team for the most part is loaded with talent and we have all our guys playing more in Europe now than in past years but also we have guys playing in CanPL and MLS. My point being that with our quality if you compare it to Canadian men's national teams of past years, then this current team is probably better than all those teams. Well in terms of overall talent and depth in our pool of players.

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This crop definitely has the potential to be a 'golden generation' (the definition above is a pretty good one I'd say). If they do reach heights that we haven't seen in a while, it will be interesting to see if this was a golden generation, or the start of the new normal.

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Posted (edited)

EDIT:

Two players that I had not listed in my original post:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Boëtius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaïro_Riedewald

Three young players that might join Suriname eventually:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maatsen (plays with Millar at Charlton)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ché_Nunnely

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Pherai

 

Edited by Olympique_de_Marseille
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8 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Two players that I had not listed in my original post:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Boëtius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaïro_Riedewald

Two young players that might join Suriname eventually:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Maatsen (plays with Millar at Charlton)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ché_Nunnely

 

Has Riedewald been confirmed yet?

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5 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Golden generation?  Where have I heard that before?

Hint:

GK: MLS
LB: EPL
CB: Scottish Prem
CB: English Championship
RB: Bundesliga
LM: English League One
CM: Bundesliga
CM: Swiss 1st
RM: English Championship
ST: MLS
ST: EPL

You can put our current team like this...

 

GK: Serbian Superliga

LB: Bundesliga

CB: MLS

CB: Portugal Liga Nos

RB: MLS

DM: Portugal Liga Nos

CM: Scottish Premiership

CM: Turkish Super Lig

RW: Turkish Super Lig

CF: Ligue 1

LW: English Championship

 

Or like this....

GK: Red Star Belgrade

LB: Bayern Munich

CB: Moreiense 

CB: Montreal Impact

RB: Toronto FC

DM: Pacos de Ferriera 

CM: Rangers

CM: Besiktas

RW: Besiktas

CF: Lille

LW: Cardiff City

 

Listing players based on club instead of league makes us look stronger, because we have several players at the biggest teams in their league.

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6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

You can put our current team like this...

 

GK: Serbian Superliga

LB: Bundesliga

CB: MLS

CB: Portugal Liga Nos

RB: MLS

DM: Portugal Liga Nos

CM: Scottish Premiership

CM: Turkish Super Lig

RW: Turkish Super Lig

CF: Ligue 1

LW: English Championship

 

Or like this....

GK: Red Star Belgrade

LB: Bayern Munich

CB: Moreiense 

CB: Montreal Impact

RB: Toronto FC

DM: Pacos de Ferriera 

CM: Rangers

CM: Besiktas

RW: Besiktas

CF: Lille

LW: Cardiff City

 

Listing players based on club instead of league makes us look stronger, because we have several players at the biggest teams in their league.

Okay...congratulations?  I don't get what you are saying.

My point, which you might've missed, is that in 2004 we had Bundesliga champions playing with MLS Cup Winners and EPL players playing with players that led us to our best finish in a World Cup (albeit U20).  This would be in response to the poster directly above my post indicating that we have a golden generation because of where our players play in Europe. 

For those of us that have been around since that time, or earlier, we've had high expectations of teams before.  So maybe lets see what happens on the pitch before we anoint the chosen ones.

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34 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Okay...congratulations?  I don't get what you are saying.

My point, which you might've missed, is that in 2004 we had Bundesliga champions playing with MLS Cup Winners and EPL players playing with players that led us to our best finish in a World Cup (albeit U20).  This would be in response to the poster directly above my post indicating that we have a golden generation because of where our players play in Europe. 

For those of us that have been around since that time, or earlier, we've had high expectations of teams before.  So maybe lets see what happens on the pitch before we anoint the chosen ones.

Yeah I get your point, I just wanted to also point out that if you compare our team to 2004 simply based on league instead of club it could arguably be misleading. Rangers for example is not your typical SPL team, so thats probably not apples to apples. Same thing if you compare 2020 Bayern Munich to 2004 Werder Bremen, both were Champions but not really the same calibre of team.

Overall though yes, I agree with your point. We have had some good generations in the past, so let's not get too carried way until this group actually does something. On the other hand, it does genuinely feel like this is the best team we have had, so I understand the expectations.

Not only is the top of the roster better (look how many canadians will win trophies this year), but the depth of the program is significantly better. Just comparing the best 11 players from 2004 does not capture that.

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16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah I get your point, I just wanted to also point out that if you compare our team to 2004 simply based on league instead of club it could arguably be misleading. Rangers for example is not your typical SPL team, so thats probably not apples to apples. Same thing if you compare 2020 Bayern Munich to 2004 Werder Bremen, both were Champions but not really the same calibre of team.

Overall though yes, I agree with your point. We have had some good generations in the past, so let's not get too carried way until this group actually does something. On the other hand, it does genuinely feel like this is the best team we have had, so I understand the expectations.

Not only is the top of the roster better (look how many canadians will win trophies this year), but the depth of the program is significantly better. Just comparing the best 11 players from 2004 does not capture that.

While I agree with the sentiment, I would make a few observations.  While we should be cautious, we need a little perspective here.  The top 5 leagues have definitely separated themselves more from the rest of the leagues in the last 20 years, and so has the English Championship.  No way Paul Stalteri plays for Tottenham now and probably not even Werner Bremen.  Rob Friend doesn't play in the Bundesliga now.  And no matter how good that 2004 side was, they didnt have a Davies or a David or even a Larin (Rad was a bit past it by then if memory serves).  Plus, conversely, MLS has gotten better.  So things are little skewed when you look at it the way you do.  And finally, we have a lot more depth now than we did then.  All that being said, those sides in that period underachieved and certainly this side could as well. But I just have a sense that this team has a much stronger internal fortitude and team chemistry.  And if someone is off form or bottling it, they can be replaced with someone of similar quality.  That being said, we will start to find out whether I am correct or not in the next month or so.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, An Observer said:

While I agree with the sentiment, I would make a few observations.  While we should be cautious, we need a little perspective here.  The top 5 leagues have definitely separated themselves more from the rest of the leagues in the last 20 years, and so has the English Championship.  No way Paul Stalteri plays for Tottenham now and probably not even Werner Bremen.  Rob Friend doesn't play in the Bundesliga now.  And no matter how good that 2004 side was, they didnt have a Davies or a David or even a Larin (Rad was a bit past it by then if memory serves).  Plus, conversely, MLS has gotten better.  So things are little skewed when you look at it the way you do.  And finally, we have a lot more depth now than we did then.  All that being said, those sides in that period underachieved and certainly this side could as well. But I just have a sense that this team has a much stronger internal fortitude and team chemistry.  And if someone is off form or bottling it, they can be replaced with someone of similar quality.  That being said, we will start to find out whether I am correct or not in the next month or so.

Paul Stalteri’s Werder Bremen would smash the current Werder Bremen. Come on now. A team that won the double vs a relegation candidate.

You’re right about our current depth though, which is the important part. We’ve always had good dreamt up squads but when 3+ guys go down, as is inevitable, we would drop down two tiers. Top guys could also be complacent or skip calls altogether as they knew no one could touch them. Now? It’s tight for everyone, even guys like David. 

To the point of comparing generations the 2008 squad was easily better than the 2004 team on paper IMO. 
 

 

Edited by CanadaFan123
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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Playing Suriname in Chicago? How does this make any sense? 

Wouldn't be as hot as Florida. 

Plus it makes it longer travel for Suriname 

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2 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Paul Stalteri’s Werder Bremen would smash the current Werder Bremen. Come on now. A team that won the double vs a relegation candidate.

 

Probably not as football has improved so much that a championship side of 20 years ago would likely struggle in any of hte top 5 leagues now; but you make a fair point about Werder Bremen in general which I was wrong to make.  My point should have been that he doesnt make a top tier Bundesliga side now....I am not ever sure Paul Stalteri would make any Bundesliga side now.

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I do not want to hear talk of this golden generation until we start winning on a consistant level and beating the like's of Honduras (Our bogey team ) Haiti (Our other bogey team) and of course the big three U.S.A, Costa Rica, and Mexico.

Yeas Our talent has increases a lot in the last few years but we still have a lot of work to do

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11 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

I do not want to hear talk of this golden generation until we start winning on a consistant level and beating the like's of Honduras (Our bogey team ) Haiti (Our other bogey team) and of course the big three U.S.A, Costa Rica, and Mexico.

Yeas Our talent has increases a lot in the last few years but we still have a lot of work to do

Don't forget our other bogey team of Jamaica

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44 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

I do not want to hear talk of this golden generation until we start winning on a consistant level and beating the like's of Honduras (Our bogey team ) Haiti (Our other bogey team) and of course the big three U.S.A, Costa Rica, and Mexico.

Yeas Our talent has increases a lot in the last few years but we still have a lot of work to do

I agree with you, this gold generation has yet to accomplish anything. But we should still watch them, talk about them. Because their moment will come where they make history

 

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9 hours ago, Obinna said:

You can put our current team like this...

 

GK: Serbian Superliga

LB: Bundesliga

CB: MLS

CB: Portugal Liga Nos

RB: MLS

DM: Portugal Liga Nos

CM: Scottish Premiership

CM: Turkish Super Lig

RW: Turkish Super Lig

CF: Ligue 1

LW: English Championship

 

Or like this....

GK: Red Star Belgrade

LB: Bayern Munich

CB: Moreiense 

CB: Montreal Impact

RB: Toronto FC

DM: Pacos de Ferriera 

CM: Rangers

CM: Besiktas

RW: Besiktas

CF: Lille

LW: Cardiff City

 

Listing players based on club instead of league makes us look stronger, because we have several players at the biggest teams in their league.

Which again like I said based on overall talent this is probably the most talented Canadian team there has been in quite some time. I mean we're loaded essentially but it is just a matter of putting it all together.

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4 hours ago, gigi riva said:

I do not want to hear talk of this golden generation until we start winning on a consistant level and beating the like's of Honduras (Our bogey team ) Haiti (Our other bogey team) and of course the big three U.S.A, Costa Rica, and Mexico.

Yeas Our talent has increases a lot in the last few years but we still have a lot of work to do

I mean yeah I can agree with all that most definitely but you have to admit we are making major strides as far as the Men's program especially if you consider where we were like a few years ago.

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One difference now vs 17/20 yrs ago, irrespective of the sport or league, is that scouts are looking at players in practically every corner of the world. The geographical composition of players on most pro sports teams, is very different  vs 20 yrs ago. I would say it is much more competitive and difficult to play in one of the top leagues now.  We have 2 players that could be (are) elite level quality...dont think we have had that before.  There appears to be good unity among the players  and on the same page with their coach. I recall in past years that there were always cases of players having issues and not playing for periods of time. All this, I agree, means squat unless we get results...but the stars do appear to be aligning

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