Opponent watch: Suriname (why they have the potential to be a tough team)

[Floortom]

5 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Think Becker and Riedewald are the only two rumoured names that didn’t it make it to the squad (never thought the latter was likely though).

Clearly this is a huge improvement from what they would have normally fielded. They should be better than Bermuda in our Group. We should still beat them but they are no minnow anymore.

Based on a bit of research Becker is injured and may have otherwise been there if not for the injury. Would be another pretty big addition for them.

[narduch]

4 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Here is their squad:

 

Someone was nice enough to update their wiki page. If you scroll down the clubs for each invited player is listed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname_national_football_team

[Stryker911]

They certainly can put out a better backing than us. Fortunately, we are still better everywhere else across the field.

[Gian-Luca]

Presumably the Dutch additions will improve them (otherwise I am sure they wouldn't have bothered) but I'm not seeing a "Top 5 Concacaf Nation" roster there that Herdman was trying to scare us all to death about in that onesoccer interview the other day. The main addition appears to be Donk, who will be 35 by the time we play them so even there a decent chance that he doesn't even play every game with all the travel, possible injuries, etc.

[narduch]

If they could get Reidewald who plays for Crystal Palace that would really give them a boost.

[PiedPilko]

11 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Presumably the Dutch additions will improve them (otherwise I am sure they wouldn't have bothered) but I'm not seeing a "Top 5 Concacaf Nation" roster there that Herdman was trying to scare us all to death about in that onesoccer interview the other day. The main addition appears to be Donk, who will be 35 by the time we play them so even there a decent chance that he doesn't even play every game with all the travel, possible injuries, etc.

Reidewald, Sheraldo Becker, Donk, Bisewar... top 5 might be a stretch, but on paper, I think that's better than Honduras, El Salvador or even Panama.  

 

Another thing is, they've fixed their big flaw. They're no longer counting on their domestic league for depth. Beyond the bigger names, they have enough fringe Eredivisie / eerste guys to fill out the bench. They're still pretty questionable at midfield, but then again, so are we at CB.

Edited March 16, 2021 by PiedPilko

[Fullback]

I feel like I'm gonna sound like a broken record at this point. On paper means absolutely NOTHING in CONCACAF.

How many times have we looked better on 'paper' and not gotten results against central american sides? The US looked pretty good on paper last cycle and how did that work out?

I don't know about you guys but I'm never sleeping on a CA side

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Fullback said:

I feel like I'm gonna sound like a broken record at this point. On paper means absolutely NOTHING in CONCACAF.

How many times have we looked better on 'paper' and not gotten results against central american sides? The US looked pretty good on paper last cycle and how did that work out?

I don't know about you guys but I'm never sleeping on a CA side

A lot of the teams in Concacaf are already training for their WCQ matches. I bet that will help them immensely compared to our players probably arriving in Florida on the 21st or 22nd, days before our match.

We probably caught a big break with Bermuda's covid issue as they will be less prepared than us probably. .

[PiedPilko]

4 minutes ago, Fullback said:

I feel like I'm gonna sound like a broken record at this point. On paper means absolutely NOTHING in CONCACAF.

How many times have we looked better on 'paper' and not gotten results against central american sides? The US looked pretty good on paper last cycle and how did that work out?

I don't know about you guys but I'm never sleeping on a CA side

Sure, but it's a factor. If we're just gonna ignore talent, then I guess we can forget about qualifying for anything. We haven't done that in ages! 

[Nate3322]

It's a big upgrade for them and they probably be a decent team in CONCACAF but they shouldn't be difficult for us to beat. Hahn is the third choice GK at Anderlecht. Outside of Donk who is 35, their CB options are comparable to ours. Their midfield is pretty average and far weaker than ours. And other than Becker their offence isn't particularly strong. They'll be a decent test but I'm confident we should beat them. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

7 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

top 5 might be a stretch, but on paper, I think that's better than Honduras, El Salvador or even Panama.  

@PiedPilko , not saying this to mock you, because you're truly a quality poster, but this seems to be a contradiction. Honduras is the 5th ranked team in CONCACAF. If they are better than Honduras then they become a top 5 team!

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/#CONCACAF

Unless you are saying that we should be in the top 5? Or another team removed?

‐--

25 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

 The main addition appears to be Donk, who will be 35 by the time we play them so even there a decent chance that he doesn't even play every game with all the travel, possible injuries, etc.

We might rely on 38 year old Atiba Hutchinson and 35 year old Dejan Jaković.

[Gian-Luca]

10 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

Reidewald, Sheraldo Becker, Donk, Bisewar... top 5 might be a stretch, but on paper, I think that's better than Honduras, El Salvador or even Panama.  

 

Another thing is, they've fixed their big flaw. They're no longer counting on their domestic league for depth. Beyond the bigger names, they have enough fringe Eredivisie / eerste guys to fill out the bench. They're still pretty questionable at midfield, but then again, so are we at CB.

Reidewald isn't there on the list mind you. Bisewar is currently playing in Cyprus and seems to be on the downside of his career at 33. Plus they actually have to be integrated with their own teammates who they have never played with, which is where all three of Honduras, El Salvador & Panama will have an advantage over them. I see an improvement yes but we ought to consider ourselves clear favourites rather than considering them as equally good or better than us the way Herdman was talking. I mean, if they are top 5 in Concacaf that means they are better than one of US, Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica and Canada for starters....which one of them does he think Surinam are now better than?

Don't get me wrong, we need to call the best team possible and shouldn't take them lightly at all but we should also feel confident of victory unless, heaven forbid, we get ravaged by injuries/COVID and European clubs giving us the middle-finger.

[Gian-Luca]

7 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

@PiedPilko , not saying this to mock you, because you're truly a quality poster, but this seems to be a contradiction. Honduras is the 5th ranked team in CONCACAF. If they are better than Honduras then they become a top 5 team!

https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/#CONCACAF

Unless you are saying that we should be in the top 5? Or another team removed?

‐--

We might rely on 38 year old Atiba Hutchinson and 35 year old Dejan Jaković.

True, although that seems less likely to me. Even if we do, those players do have the advantage of having met one another and most of their teammates already, let alone having played multiple times with them.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Gian-Luca

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Plus they actually have to be integrated with their own teammates who they have never played with

This argument is of little relevance since we play them in June. They will have had 3 competitive games together before we face them. It's not like our squad gets together that much either!

 

5 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I mean, if they are top 5 in Concacaf that means they are better than one of US, Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica and Canada for starters....which one of them does he think Surinam are now better than?

This new upgraded Suriname is better than Haiti I think. And Haiti beat us in our last encounter! I think this Suriname team is good enough to get a draw or a win against us at least 33% of the time, maybe even 50% of the time. That should scare us. Goal difference could be a factor in this group.

[PiedPilko]

27 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

@PiedPilko , not saying this to mock you, because you're truly a quality poster, but this seems to be a contradiction. Honduras is the 5th ranked team in CONCACAF. If they are better than Honduras then they become a top 5 team!

Yeah, I try to combine a team's record with what they should probably be expected to achieve given their talent. I genuinely think we're better than the likes of Honduras, Panama, El Salvador and yes, Suriname, because their records are spotty / non-existent.

I'm just trying to be realistic with the Suriname we're up against. Like... after we beat the U.S, it kinda changed how I saw 'Talent.' A lot of American fans said they had better players at 10/11 positions, and they were probably right-ish, but at the time, we had a lot of guys who weren't far behind. I think it's similar with Suriname, despite the gamebreakers we have that they don't, and I'm worried we're all gonna be kinda reactionary if things don't go right. 

 

 

[Gian-Luca]

24 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

This argument is of little relevance since we play them in June. They will have had 3 competitive games together before we face them. It's not like our squad gets together that much either!

 

This new upgraded Suriname is better than Haiti I think. And Haiti beat us in our last encounter! I think this Suriname team is good enough to get a draw or a win against us at least 33% of the time, maybe even 50% of the time. That should scare us. Goal difference could be a factor in this group.

3 competitive games spaced out over 4 months is unlikely to provide them with instant team chemistry, it will still mitigate against how positive their additions are. As bad as our own lack of playing time together is, their situation is far worse since the new core of their team that everyone is terrified about has no prior experience together, unlike ours. Basically if we are rightfully somewhat pessimistic about our chances of qualifying for the Olympics because the team called has had little to no time to integrate, then the same should hold true for those teams like Suriname who face the same issue.

The idea is also that we're ought to be better than we were when we played Haiti two years ago - not just because the guy who almost single-handedly cost us the game is playing for the Olympic team (where even there he might not be first choice right back) and we have two far better options to play at right back but because our then-young team should be growing and learning from that experience (and arguably have, having walloped the US since then) and not shaking in their boots the way that Herdman interview was inviting us to be just because Suriname have a 35 year old CB and a 33 year old attacker who plays in Cyprus now in their ranks (mentioned since those two are the only two of the four listed that have actually been called to the roster - in addition to Reidewald, Becker isn't there either).

Edited March 16, 2021 by Gian-Luca

[VinceA]

This Suriname team has two things going against them:

They're gonna need time to gel, just like Curacao did.

They're old and that brings into question commitment levels, especially during a pandemic.

[An Observer]

We should beat them and if had to bet, I would put money on us to do so.  We are clearly the favourite but in one game (possibly no longer at home and if at home, with significantly reduced capacity which will impact the atmosphere), they are more than good enough to spring a surprise (like we can against Mexico or the US in Olympic qualifying).  Yes, they wont have had a lot of time to gel and of the 3 games they do have, 2 will be against minnows.  But as others have said, we won't have played much ourselves and some of our guys like David, Arfield, Hutchinson, etc may not even be in the side for our two matches in March.  That said, we will still have the edge on chemistry as the vast majority will have played together and a lot came up through the youth sides (or MLS sides). 

I for one will be watching this match nervously in June.  And lets hope that we have goal difference in our favour leading into that match so even a draw will get us through.

[Alex]

I’ve been going back and forth in my head here on what to think about Suriname. I’ll be honest I don’t know any of their players except from reason on here, Twitter and Wikipedia. Are they decent? Yes. Do they have guys that are good or better than Larin, Davies, David, Arfield, Eustaquio? Pardon my ignorance but I don’t think so. Josefzoon plays at Rotherham (is he a goal scorer or more of a winger) his strike rate isn’t all that impressive (but decent). The other forwards listed play in Israel (2), Slovakia (on Loan to the Croatian 2nd division) Trinidad and Cyprus. We have Hoilett too who I still think at 30 is fantastic. Their mids listed have one guy in India, and 5 of the 6 are over 30, the other is unattached. The rest are made up of the eredivise, and a few Turkish players.
 

Now am I concerned? Sure. But we’ve beat better teams and I acknowledge lost to lesser teams. One thing I’ll say about us losing to Haiti and I’ve had this attitude for a while now - it’s not a bad thing we lost to them. It will remind everyone you can’t underestimate your opponents and you can’t be overconfident. 

[narduch]

It's definitely a trap game.

I'd probably feel less anxious if we had a better manager than Hardman.

[Stryker911]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

I’ve been going back and forth in my head here on what to think about Suriname. I’ll be honest I don’t know any of their players except from reason on here, Twitter and Wikipedia. Are they decent? Yes. Do they have guys that are good or better than Larin, Davies, David, Arfield, Eustaquio? Pardon my ignorance but I don’t think so. Josefzoon plays at Rotherham (is he a goal scorer or more of a winger) his strike rate isn’t all that impressive (but decent). The other forwards listed play in Israel (2), Slovakia (on Loan to the Croatian 2nd division) Trinidad and Cyprus. We have Hoilett too who I still think at 30 is fantastic. Their mids listed have one guy in India, and 5 of the 6 are over 30, the other is unattached. The rest are made up of the eredivise, and a few Turkish players.
 

Now am I concerned? Sure. But we’ve beat better teams and I acknowledge lost to lesser teams. One thing I’ll say about us losing to Haiti and I’ve had this attitude for a while now - it’s not a bad thing we lost to them. It will remind everyone you can’t underestimate your opponents and you can’t be overconfident. 

Really the only position they are stronger than us is at CB. They have 2 guys from the Erdivisie. Leeuwin who seems to be the 3rd or 4th option for AZ Alkamaar, one of the bigger teams, and Pinas, who is a starter for Den Hag, who is in the relegation zone. They also have the option of putting Donk back there, or putting him into the midfield. There is a good chance all of them would start for us.

[Addona]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

It's definitely a trap game.

I'd probably feel less anxious if we had a better manager than Hardman.

I'd feel less anxious if it were a home & away group (of 4 teams, say) where in the end, everyone played 6 games.  In that case, I would feel super confident that all we'd need against Suriname is 1W (we could lose 1-0 on the road even, and beat them 2-0 at home, say) or 2D ... but this format increases the randomness significantly ...

[narduch]

More reinforcements:

 

[sebdeserio]

5 minutes ago, narduch said:

More reinforcements:

 

Ridgeciano Haps' a left back and has a 77 rating on FIFA, and even if FIFA ratings aren't always accurate they give a good general idea of what caliber the players are. He's now their most highly rated player.

[narduch]

Just now, sebdeserio said:

Ridgeciano Haps' a left back and has a 77 rating on FIFA, and even if FIFA ratings aren't always accurate they give a good general idea of what caliber the players are. He's now their most highly rated player.

I'm going to need his Football Manager stats too. Just to be sure lol.