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York9 - Season Thread 2020


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10 minutes ago, Kent said:

I'm supporting the team as best I can either way, but I think the bigger issue than branding is a lack a stake in the ground. When the team was announced they talked about York University as a temporary home (within Toronto city limits), with plans on having their own stadium in York Region. To the best of my knowledge they haven't explicitly said the stadium build idea is dead, or that York University is their permanent home now. So you might have people living outside the city not sure if they should bother because the team might not actually ever come to York Region, and you might have people living in the city not sure if they should bother because the team might pick up and leave.

The original plan seemed to be to give themselves some geographical separation from TFC to hope to draw a crowd from people further away from Toronto proper. But they needed somewhere to play temporarily so had to settle for playing within the city limits (which seemed to be what they wanted to avoid doing) and didn't draw many fans there. That to me seems to be evidence that they weren't wrong about wanting some separation. But now it seems like they think to succeed they need to double down on Toronto and loosen ties to the suburbs. Maybe their new stadium idea would work, because they would have a permanent home that wouldn't confuse potential fans about their intentions, and plus new stadiums and dedicated stadiums help draw fans on their own (as MLS illustrated so well).

I agree that they need to be clear about the ground. McNab did say that the partnership with York University was incredible and as we are witnessing, they are letting the club making any changes they want so far.

The existing structure is good and there's lots of space and possibilities for permanent upgrades and eventually close the stadium using a modern modular approach. I'm thinking they should change the seats to personalize the stadium and make it look more like theirs while adding a logo on the outside of the stadium.

Dropping cash to upgrade Lions to their liking might be cheaper than building a brand new one. Of course if demand justifies it, owning a brand new stadium outright makes sense but it seemed clear they were staying put and upgrading.

The Keele-Finch are is up for a major redevelopment due to Finch West Station and LRT, so we might see more bars and entertainment venues opening adding to the overall experience.

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Great points from both of you guys @Ozzie_the_parrot @Kent
I had some of the same thoughts after this weekend in regards to the branding and stadium. 

If York Stadium is the intended long term home for York United, I'm realllllllly interested in how things will look on game days. However I'm going to assume that it isn't because an announcement was never made, and a substantial investment would have be included in that.

Side note: With the 9 gone....I hope they got rid of the dumb number rule. Maybe that was part of their problem, because they never had a designated number 9 ..ha

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I was quite critical of the league's approach to de-emphasizing the geographic nature of team names. Referring to Forge or Valour, to me, screams "Who?" in the context of an upstart league in Canada's third tier sport but that's maybe just my preference.

But if there was ever a team that shouldn't have used the local municipality's/geography's name, it was York.

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1 minute ago, The Real Marc said:

I was quite critical of the league's approach to de-emphasizing the geographic nature of team names. Referring to Forge or Valour, to me, screams "Who?" in the context of an upstart league in Canada's third tier sport but that's maybe just my preference.

But if there was ever a team that shouldn't have used the local municipality's/geography's name, it was York.

Got to give people more credit than that. Not sure they need to be told a 100 times that Forge is Hamilton if they get interested in the product.

I don't think the name "Valour vs Winnipeg" is a deal breaker either. Those interested would most likely ask "what does it mean" - they get the reasoning behind it and they move on.

It's unusual for North American sports but it isn't as big of a deal as people makes it out to be

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1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Got to give people more credit than that. Not sure they need to be told a 100 times that Forge is Hamilton if they get interested in the product.

I don't think the name "Valour vs Winnipeg" is a deal breaker either. Those interested would most likely ask "what does it mean" - they get the reasoning behind it and they move on.

It's unusual for North American sports but it isn't as big of a deal as people makes it out to be

Sure. But whom?  People attending the games or following the scores regularly, yup, they learn it. But for average joes in the community they just pass it by. It sounds like junior soccer, when teams were named Strikers and Blizzard and United. But that wasn't rhe point. The point is that it's just funny that the one club that this approach would have worked for was the one that didn't follow it!

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32 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Sure. But whom?  People attending the games or following the scores regularly, yup, they learn it. But for average joes in the community they just pass it by. It sounds like junior soccer, when teams were named Strikers and Blizzard and United. But that wasn't rhe point. The point is that it's just funny that the one club that this approach would have worked for was the one that didn't follow it!

If they aren't interested, they aren't interested. The name isn't the deal breaker

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14 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

Why would they build a stadium when York lions stadium was pretty empty? They need to fill it before building anything. 

I'm a fan of the rebrand and the new kit is a huge upgrade. 

I said MLS has illustrated why, here are some numbers.

Kansas City wasn't filling their stadium back in the years before their new stadium opened. 3 straight years of 10k and change, then they moved to their new stadium and they have had 9 straight seasons of at least 17k (excluding 2020 of course).

San Jose had seasons of 9k, 11k, 13k, 12, 14k before moving into their new stadium where they got average crowds of 20k, 19k, 19k, 19k, 18k.

Those teams weren't filling their stadiums on the scale that other MLS teams did, but built new ones anyways, and now have strong attendances. My hypothesis is that a stadium could be all that York United need. But of course it is easy for me to say, since I'm not the one writing the cheques to build a stadium.

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35 minutes ago, Kent said:

I said MLS has illustrated why, here are some numbers.

Kansas City wasn't filling their stadium back in the years before their new stadium opened. 3 straight years of 10k and change, then they moved to their new stadium and they have had 9 straight seasons of at least 17k (excluding 2020 of course).

San Jose had seasons of 9k, 11k, 13k, 12, 14k before moving into their new stadium where they got average crowds of 20k, 19k, 19k, 19k, 18k.

Those teams weren't filling their stadiums on the scale that other MLS teams did, but built new ones anyways, and now have strong attendances. My hypothesis is that a stadium could be all that York United need. But of course it is easy for me to say, since I'm not the one writing the cheques to build a stadium.

You're right on the MLS scenarios but I bet the stadium experience was night and day.

BMO Field experience was significantly upgraded once they added the new sections, amenities and roof.

bmo-field.jpg?w=584

BMO-Field-looking-south-east.jpg

 

A major problem with York Lions is the overall fan experience which can be improved significantly. There's plenty of space to add more modern structures at the opposite side of the pitch, building corporate suite, bar etc... McNab in a podcast even talked about adding a roof/cover to protect the fans from the elements it it came to that - and yeah, all of those are needed to attract more fans and he recognized it.

Do they "really" need to move if they can significantly upgrade the current stadium for much less than building from scratch like MLSE did at BMO?

The sooner they get to this, the better - a semi roof to cover the fans is also a must

York-3.png

Edited by Ansem
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25 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Really excited to see York line up next year. Major roll of the dice with all these signings but they all look exciting. A couple of solid experience Canadian heads to fill out the squad and they will look solid. 

I am expecting a quality CB and DM to join the team. Angus said they have significant cap left so they should be starters. karl ouimette is available for the CB spot or maybe they go younger with an Alex Comsia. Daniel Stanese or Norman Jr would be good fits in the midfield. 

Edited by Mikmacdo
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I just got a call from a sales rep of York United asking me about my game day experience from the race car seats I had bought (vs Impact) last year. I asked him if York stadium would be their stadium for long term or if there are still plans to build a new stadium and he replied yes to a new stadium. I also asked him about the rumor of the Woodbine site and said he didn't know any details. Take it for what it's worth.

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On 10/28/2020 at 4:28 PM, SoccMan said:

Surprised that the youngster Altobelli who played for Canada at the recent  U17 World Cup who had just recently signed last June who I think is still 17 decided not to resign with York 9 , he a former TFC Academy player also . Looks like it was his decision not the club’s not to sign for York 9 again ,  that’s a strange one especially because of his age.

Altobelli returns to the TFC organization signing with TFC2 along with two academy products.

https://northerntribune.ca/toronto-fc-ii-julian-altobelli/

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On 12/14/2020 at 8:37 AM, Kent said:

I said MLS has illustrated why, here are some numbers.

Kansas City wasn't filling their stadium back in the years before their new stadium opened. 3 straight years of 10k and change, then they moved to their new stadium and they have had 9 straight seasons of at least 17k (excluding 2020 of course).

San Jose had seasons of 9k, 11k, 13k, 12, 14k before moving into their new stadium where they got average crowds of 20k, 19k, 19k, 19k, 18k.

Those teams weren't filling their stadiums on the scale that other MLS teams did, but built new ones anyways, and now have strong attendances. My hypothesis is that a stadium could be all that York United need. But of course it is easy for me to say, since I'm not the one writing the cheques to build a stadium.

MLS also illustrated something else though: new stadiums in the subburbs don't work either.  They're not the newest stadiums, but Dallas, Chicago, and Colorado all built stadiums in the subburbs and routinely are in the bottom spots for attendance in the league.  It was bad enough that Chicago broke their lease to return to downtown and play at Soldier field.  And the league really started to take off when TFC, Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland all came in to the league with downtown stadiums (even if the stadiums themselves weren't ideal).

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7 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

MLS also illustrated something else though: new stadiums in the subburbs don't work either.  They're not the newest stadiums, but Dallas, Chicago, and Colorado all built stadiums in the subburbs and routinely are in the bottom spots for attendance in the league.  It was bad enough that Chicago broke their lease to return to downtown and play at Soldier field.  And the league really started to take off when TFC, Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland all came in to the league with downtown stadiums (even if the stadiums themselves weren't ideal).

Of those four, which in your opinion are not "ideal"? 

I've been to all the Cascadia stadiums. BC Place is pleasant, with good sight lines, open air or closed option; then there is old turf, poor sound, maybe a bit cavernous with the top tier closed. Century Link is a solid venue, for the fan numbers they get it works well. It is not near any population, it is on the service side of the more office-focused part of downtown, so not that easy to walk to for fans. But what stadiums for soccer getting more than 30 thousand are better in North America?

Providence Park is closer to a classic footie stadium, more vertical stands, tighter, and a nice atmosphere. And right in the downtown, near population and services.

For me the fact of being in good locations outweighs most other concerns.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist
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4 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Of those four, which in your opinion are not "ideal"? 

I've been to all the Cascadia stadiums. BC Place is pleasant, with good sight lines, open air or closed option; then there is old turf, poor sound, maybe a bit cavernous with the top tier closed. Century Link is a solid venue, for the fan numbers they get it works well. It is not near any population, it is on the service side of the more office-focused part of downtown, so not that easy to walk to for fans. But what stadiums for soccer getting more than 30 thousand are better in North America?

Providence Park is closer to a classic footie stadium, more vertical stands, tighter, and a nice atmosphere. And right in the downtown, near population and services.

For me the fact of being in good locations outweighs most other concerns.

Yes, this was my point.  Portland is exactly what you want.  And you've just pointed out the flaws with BC Place and Century Link.  I've never had any problems getting to Century Link, and the combination of Century Link and T-Mobile baseball stadium has build the area in to a place that really caters to the sports fan.  But, the location really matters for attendance and being downtown is more conducive to that.

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