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Future Champions League & CONCACAF League format


New Champions League format  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Champions League Format do you prefer?

    • Status quo - Knockout Stage in the winter only
      9
    • Groupe Stage + knockout stage
      20
  2. 2. Do you like the concept of Champions League qualifiers?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      9
  3. 3. Which format of CONCACAF League?

    • Status quo - Summer/Fall to qualify to winter CCL
      11
    • Europa League Format
      16
    • Sudamericana Format
      2


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I know @Ansemis dealing with the parameters given to him, but some of my criticisms, mostly based on how the regionalization sucks. In the 4 North American groups you would have 1 Canadian team in each, 2 Mexican teams and 1 American team in 2 groups, and in the other 2 groups would be 2 American teams and 1 Mexican team. If we assume the Voyageurs Cup champion will usually be an MLS team (and same with US Open Cup) there will be a 50% chance that there will be a group with 3 out of 4 teams from the same league (and all 4 North American groups will have at least 2 from the same league). Just imagine a group with Chelsea, Manchester City, and Liverpool, plus one other team, like Dortmund. That sucks and deprives us of international competition which is what the tournament is supposed to be about.

As for the great win for the Caribbean, I don’t think that is accurate. They don’t get to participate in a group stage, they get 2 teams in the final 16. As it stands now they get 1 team in the final 16 guaranteed, with 3 teams among 13 other teams vying for the last 6 spots in the CCL final 16. Not much difference for them in terms of spots in the final 16, and probably less international games overall.

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Sometime this week I will come up with a suggestion to how the format should go. What I will say based off of the comments is this: everyone needs deserves a chance. So, as I am reading a lot of here for example, the Belizean champion shouldn't get a spot in the competition is nonsensical. If that's the attitude that is taken, let me ask you this: should teams like Canada not get a shot at qualifying for the next World Cup as we don't have a real shot at winning it? At bare minimum all NAs' champions should get a spot in qualifying for this competition. CONCACAF might run into the same problem as UEFA regarding how the Access List should go. There needs to be a balance between keeping MLS and Liga MX happy and keeping the rest of CONCACAF happy. The other thing I will say is about Mexico partaking in both CONCACAF and CONMEBOL club competitions. They need to make up their mind, it's one or the other. Can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to participate in CONMEBOL club competitions (personally I don't think it should be allowed), then fine, go. But, do not come expecting spots in CONCACAF competitions as well

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The part I find most interesting is that this is a total reversal from that "One CONCACAF" mission that Vic came in to the presidency with.  The idea of "One CONCACAF" was there would no longer be a Central American faction and a Caribbean faction in both a competitive and political context. 

The proposed format is even more similar to the pre-2008 CONCACAF Champions Cup where there were club championships for Central America and the Caribbean feeding into the Champions Cup knockout stages.

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Its actually almost more like a restructure of the Concacaf League. If this new format was to take place, i think Concacaf League would no longer exist and this competition would run a calendar year similar to Copa Libertadores.

Maybe Concacaf League would continue with another layer of teams? Perhaps like Can 5-6? 

Edited by SpursFlu
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23 hours ago, Ansem said:

Canada (4)

-Canadian Championship (1)

-CPL Finalists (2)

-CPL regular season winner (1)

I find it very odd that you would spend so much time in one thread arguing that "domestic cups shouldn't get 2 berths" and then in the other go and award two spots to....a Cup final.  Just give the two spots to the CPL regular season, which is what they do in the rest of the world and which is what you've been so concerned with.

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38 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I find it very odd that you would spend so much time in one thread arguing that "domestic cups shouldn't get 2 berths" and then in the other go and award two spots to....a Cup final.  Just give the two spots to the CPL regular season, which is what they do in the rest of the world and which is what you've been so concerned with.

1 berth to domestic cup and the balance to the league is the norm in the football world.

However I agree with you that the regular season should be rewarded.

(1) CPL Champion

(2)Regular Seaon

 

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I remade the potential format and listening again to Montagliani, the point is expanding the CCL and not reduce it. This would mean more berth almost all around and since this is being ran by zones, the number of berth per leagues in the respective zones might seem high at first but what matters is the number of teams moving on to the next stage.

North American Football Union (8)

  • 4 groups of 4 teams
  • Top 2 of each groups advance to Knockout Stage

image.png.0fa544ce4c2b80c754c7bdc868c6345f.png

 

Central American Football Union  (6)

  • 6 groups of 4 teams
  • Winner of the groups goes to Knockout Stage (6)

image.png.ec6f5855b3b56cb02ae082d58cf28421.png

 

 Central American Football Union  (1)

  • The Caribbean Club Championship format  should be integrated in the Champions League as the CFU group stage
  • Winner advance to knockout stage (1)

Previous year CONCACAF League winner (1)

  • 1 berth to the cup winner (1)
  • Most likely Liga MX or MLS

Champions League Knockout Stage

  • 8 from NAFU
  • 6 from CAFU
  • 1 from CFU
  • Previous year CONCACAF League winner (1)

 

CONCACAF League

I'm of the opinion that CONCACAF League will remain. Montagliani praises the 2nd tier competition a lot and this is a proven tool to level up club competition in a region like Sudamericana and Europa League did for theirs by involving their upper mid-table teams.

NAFU (9): Should get the lion share of the berths - more so than with Champions League which creates more match ups between MLS and Liga MX while integrating more CPL clubs. This is noticeable in South America where Argentina and Brazil gets the bulk of the spots.

Example

  • Brazil: 12 teams of 20 plays qualify for continental football via their league
  • Argentina: 10 out 24 does as well

This is where you'd find your domestic cup winners (Except Canada) and Apertura/Clausura runner ups.

  • 4 groups of 4
  • Top 2 of each groups advance to knockouts
  • Best 3rd overall advance to knockouts

image.png.f15e50a4d355fa41f9d5fafa43a4a1c1.png

 

CAFU (6) : The regional approach reduces travel costs considerably while intensifying regional rivalries (Honduras vs El Salvador - Panama vs Costa Rica) engaging more fans in the region. Domestic cup winners (where they are held) and Apertura/Clausura runner ups would be here.

  • Winner of each groups advance to knockout stage

image.png.c402505ff76e4b64bbeb5ccf2f44cfb2.png

 

CFU (1) : Caribbean Club shield should be integrated in the CONCACAF League CFU group stage. Of course, Jamaican and Haitian pro clubs are expected get qualify to the next stage.

  • Best club of this group stage advance to knockout stage

 

CONCACAF League Knockout Stage

  • 9 from NAFU
  • 6 from CAFU
  • 1 from CFU

 

Edited by Ansem
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Sorry, Ansem, I didn’t read it all, but if what I read is accurate, you are proposing a format where it is possible for a team to win all of their games and be eliminated. I am referring to the 6 group Central American zone with the best 5 moving on. That should be a non-starter even for CONCACAF.

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16 hours ago, Kent said:

Sorry, Ansem, I didn’t read it all, but if what I read is accurate, you are proposing a format where it is possible for a team to win all of their games and be eliminated. I am referring to the 6 group Central American zone with the best 5 moving on. That should be a non-starter even for CONCACAF.

So thinking that currently the previous CCL winner doesn't get a birth to next year CCL - I have fixed it

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As promised, I have come up with something for a potential future CONCACAF Champions League and CONCACAF League  format. I think this is something that would work well

 

CONCACAF Champions League:

 

I'm thinking that a return to group stage football would actually work. I would split qualifying into each subconfederations' region. I will start off, however, by pointing out the access list.

 

Mexico: 6 spots (4 in the GS, 2 in qualifying)

United States: 5 spots (4 in GS, 1 in qualifying)

Canada: 2 spots (1 in GS, 1 in qualifying)

Costa Rica, Honduras and Panama: 3 spots (2 in GS, 1 in qualifying)

El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua: 2 spots (1 in GS, 1 in qualifying)

Belize: 1 spot, in qualifying

Jamaica, Haiti, Dominican Republic, and Trinidad and Tobago: 2 spots (1 in GS, 1 in qualifying)

All non-professional Caribbean associations: 1, each in qualifying

Defending CCL and CL champions enter the GS as well

 

CONCACAF Champions League Qualifying:

North America: The 4 teams are paired for a spot in the GS. Winners qualify for CCL GS, losers qualify for the CL GS. Country protection applies here, such that the two Mexican clubs cannot meet each other

Central America: Two rounds of qualifying, in the first round, all the teams except the Belizean representative are paired, with the winners joining the Belizean representatives in the final round of qualifying. There, the four teams are again paired, with the two winners qualifying for the GS. The two losers in the last round of qualifying drops to the CL GS. The first round losers drop to CL qualifying.

Caribbean: The Caribbean path would be split into four groups of eight*, each with a professional team in it (the other representatives from Jamaica, Haiti, Dominican Republic and Trinidad and Tobago). The professional teams will all act as hosts for this round of qualifying. Each country will have a mini-tournament style qualifying phase, with the winner of each mini-tournament (4 teams) qualifying for the GS. The losers of the final round would qualify for the CL GS, with the other losers still partaking in CL qualifying.

* Currently there are 31 Caribbean associations, with another one expecting to join next year to make it 32. Under this format I am expecting there to be 32 Caribbean assocations.

For the group stage, the teams would be split into 8 groups of 4, with the top 2 qualifying for the knockout round. The third place teams would play in a play-in to qualify for the CONCACAF League knockout round. More on that later.

 

CONCACAF League:

Same idea as the CCL regarding format, but with 24 teams instead of 32, still in groups of 4, but only 6 groups.

All North American and Central American countries (except Belize, with 1) would get 2 spots. Only the 2 Mexican, 2 American, and 1 Canadian team would qualify automatically for the group stage. Outside of that, only the four Caribbean associations considered professional would get 1 spot each as well in qualifying. The losers of the CCL final round of qualifying in each region (2 from North America, 2 from Central America, and 4 from the Caribbean) would qualify for the GS as well.

 

CONCACAF League qualifying:

Canada + Central America: Canada and Belize would have 1 spot each here, with the other six countries having 2 each. In the first round, the teams would be paired for seven matches. The winners would qualify for the last round of qualifying, losers eliminated. In the last round of qualifying, the 7 winners would be joined by the three losing teams from the CCL 1st round. The 10 teams would be paired, with the 5 winners entering the group stage. Again, losers would be eliminated.

Caribbean: The Caribbean path will seem convoluted, but hear me out. The 16 teams who lose in the first round of the tournament continue to play in a losers bracket in the country they are in. The winner of each losers bracket would qualify to take on one of the 4 Caribbean teams that I mentioned earlier. Of course, depending on which country they are already in, it is that country's team that would meet them. The winners of these tie would qualify for the group stage The eight team that lose in the second round of qualifying in the CCL would meet, first in their losers' bracket. The winners would then be paired by in the following: Haiti region vs Dominican Republic region and Jamaica region vs Trinidad and Tobago region. The winners of those ties would qualify for the group stage.

 

For the group stage, the teams would be put into six groups of four, with the top 2 qualifying for the round of 16. Those 12 teams would be joined by the 4 winners of the CL play-in round, involving the CCL 3rd place teams

 

The final thing to mention here is that all qualifying round ties in both competitions would be single legged, with matches from the group stage onward (including the play-in round) being two legged.

 

I know it's a lot to digest, but I'm here to answer any questions you all may have. Happy New Year

 

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  • 2 months later...

If you are wondering why the smaller Carribean nations don't always take part: the Guyana champions are doing a Go Fund Me to raise money to attend the Caribbean Club Shield tournament (which serves as a qualifier to for the Concacaf League).

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2021/03/08/sports/fruta-conquerors-kicks-off-gofundme-campaign-for-concacaf-caribbean-club-shield/

In fact only 14 of the 27 nations have sent a club to the tournament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Caribbean_Club_Shield

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  • 6 months later...
12 minutes ago, narduch said:

So the Leagues Cup will feature ALL MLS and Liga MX teams starting in 2023. Fighting for 3 Concacaf Champions League spots.

 

This is not correct.. actually maybe it is. It mentions an expanded Leagues Cup but doesn't talk details. Ok that is confirmed 

I've watched the video a few times and it seems pretty much what was already announced 

The one confusing thing is...

It seems there will be a regional cup between Can, US & Mexico but that doesn't qualify teams to Champions League. Am I right? Its a bit confusing 

 

Seems to me after digesting everything CPL gets kinda screwed. Mentions a regional NA cup but it doesn't fit in anywhere. Plus with a huge Leagues Cup without CPL, I cant see how it happens 

Edited by SpursFlu
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CPL has 2 automatic spots. With an extra spot available through the Voyageurs cup. Which in it's current state of 8(9) teams is understandable considering the rest of our region has developed "professional" league infrastructures.

However I would like to see the CPL included in the Leagues Cup, but now with the potential of the both leagues taking a break to have the summer tournament....I don't think CPL teams would be worthy competitors. 

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21 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

So we're the only country not competing in a regional competition and without a regional pathway to the Round of 16? Thanks Vic. 

Great for MLS teams though.

I like this format better than what was previously announced. 

There is actually a possibility for as many as 5 Canadian clubs to qualify for the Champions League this way.

RIP Concacaf League. We hardly knew you 

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2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

So we're the only country not competing in a regional competition and without a regional pathway to the Round of 16? Thanks Vic. 

Great for MLS teams though.

We are guaranteed 2 spots!!! for 8(9) teams.

  • Panama has 36 teams between their two leagues. (12 in their first division)
  • Costa Rica has 30 teams between their two leagues. (12 in their first division)
  • Honduras has 40 teams between their two leagues.  (10 in their first division)
  • El Salvador has 35 teams between their two leagues. (12 in their first division)
  • Nicaragua has 30 teams between their two leagues. (10 in their first division)

Guatemala has 12 teams in their first division. 

That's 183 teams for 6 spots, or if you want to be technical and look at just first divisions leagues. It's 102 teams!

We really can't complain when you look at the basic numbers. 

...and thats with the possibility of the TFC, Caps, and the Impact all being able to gain berths through MLS & Leauges Cup. 

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8 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think this was a compromise between ligaMX/MLS and CONCACAF. I think the League Cup is intriguing for sure. The risk for me is the Leagues Cup is such an undertaking and should get so much attention because its such a unique thing... it could over shadow Champions League

Most definitely. There’s probably more money to be earned too. 

Now that I think of it more. I do wish the CPL could be involved in the tournament they probably could balance the groups. 

MLS 29 teams, Liga MX 18, CPL 9= 56 teams.

 

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