Future Champions League & CONCACAF League format

[Ansem]

With Montagliani hinting at an expanded format of the Champions league, I think it will be quite significant.

Montagliani was quick to implement the CONCACAF Nation League to emulate what UEFA came out with, so I believe that he will pursue copying either the UEFA model or CONMEBOL model

This is how I think it could work

Champions League

• Mexico (4)
• USA (4)
• Canada (2) (Canadian Championship + CPL Champion)
• Top 2 clubs from each Central American league - Panama, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua (12)
• Caribbean Club Championship winner (1)
• Previous year CONCACAF League winner (1)
• Previous year Champions League winner (1)
• Champions League playoffs Qualifiers winners (7)

Group stage 8 groups of 4 team, top 2 advance to knockout like UEFA

• Winner qualifies for FIFA Club World Cup* & next year Champions League

*Tournament being expanded could see more clubs from the Semifinals qualify

Notes

• The Champions League Level of play not only remains high, but increasing the exposure to quality teams/leagues will help the rest improve
• Group Stage should be in the fall and knockout in the Spring
• Expanding the format means that we might be past pandering to 1 league or 2. They will have to adjust to this competition, not the other way around
• Significantly increasing the prize money is necessary to sell this expanded competition to Liga MX and MLS
• The fact that more of MLS & Liga MX clubs could get berths and be involved (see below) is a good way to keep more teams with something to play for. More fans would be invested in CONCACAF which in terms is good to raise the popularity and prestige of soccer and more clubs

 

Champions League playoffs

Notes:

1. 14 clubs
2. Draw to set up the home and away series
3. 2 games in August
4. Involving more Liga MX and MLS teams (they would be up to 6 berths at this point) is a good way to get more fans to be invested in CONCACAF and more variety of clubs & players,

Berths

• Best 3rd overall club from each Central American league (6)
• Caribbean Club Championship runner ups (3)
• Canada (1) (CPL finalist)
• USA (2) (5th-6th best)
• Mexico (2) (5th-6th best)

-7 winners advance to Champions League group stage 

-7 losers advance to CONCACAF League Group Stage (Europa Model) or Round of 16 knockout bracket (Sudamericana model)

 

CONCACAF League

- Using the Europa formula with group stage or Sudamericana massive knockout tournament

Europa League format 

• Losers Champions League playoffs (7) 
• Central America (4th-5th best) (12)
• Caribbean Club Shield finalists (2)
• Canada (2) (CPL 3rd and 4th overall)
• Mexico (4) (7th-10th best) or (7th to 9th + Domestic cup)
• USA (4) (7th-10th best) or (7th to 9th + US Open)
• Belize (1)

Group stage 8 groups of 4 team, top 2 advance to knockout like UEFA

• Winner qualifies for FIFA next year Champions League

Notes

• The CONCACAF league level of play would be uneven here do to MLS and Liga MX clubs being sent. However, just like Europa and Sudamericana, over time clubs make adjustments and become more competitive the more they are facing this quality. CONCACAF needs to go through the growing pain and stick with it. Segregating the top clubs from the rest doesn't help the region
• Group Stage should be in the fall and knockout in the Spring
• Expanding the format means that clubs who are out of MLS playoffs contention would have something to play for. This encourage fans to care more about CONCACAF as their journey towards MLS Cup might have ended but their journey towards CONCACAF League begins. Mid tier clubs are likely to support this and this is necessary to sell Liga MX and MLS on the expanded Champions League format.

 

Sudamericana Format

-1st Round of home & away matches involving 36 clubs

-2nd Round involves the 18 clubs who won their playoffs

-(9) remaining clubs will be seeded with the 7 clubs who lost their Champions League playoffs (7) who were seeded to Round of 16 knockout stage

-Winner qualifies for next year Champions League

Note

• Previous rounds in the fall, Round of 16 Knockout stage in the spring
• Potential to include even more clubs while keeping the amount of games low (Sudamericana involves 44 clubs from 10 nations meeting 10 clubs at the next stage, CONCACAF invite more clubs as they level up

Edited March 2, 2020 by Ansem

[Shway]

Here's my take, quick and short  :

Only thing I'm missing is incorporating the champions of CCL & CL, but that can be easily worked in. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Shway

[Cblake]

What has changed, they scrapped the group stage not too long ago, with most citing that was just not enough interest in it. The group stage in the past had two formats, four and three team setups. In the era of the four you also had the preliminary round where the Canadian team wold enter. 

[SpursFlu]

I think people want to align with Europe but in SAmerica I think 7 or 8 Brazilian and Argentinean team make in to Libertadores. I would like to see more top teams 

I think 24 teams, same format with top 8 bye first round

6 MLS, 6 LigaMX, 2 Can, 10 Concacaf League

Concacaf League(24 teams)top 8 bye first round

3 Can, 3 Carib, 18 Central America 

39 total teams

Edited February 29, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Kent]

@Ansem, I like what you’ve got (as a starting point, I would want a coefficient system to figure out the spots for each country going forward) but it looks like you forgot about Nicaragua.

[Ansem]

33 minutes ago, Kent said:

@Ansem, I like what you’ve got (as a starting point, I would want a coefficient system to figure out the spots for each country going forward) but it looks like you forgot about Nicaragua.

Fixed! Added Nicaragua and it would be cool to see your idea of an expanded tournament

[Kent]

14 hours ago, Ansem said:

Fixed! Added Nicaragua and it would be cool to see your idea of an expanded tournament

I voted in the poll for group stage, and I'm OK with preliminary round games but I don't mind if we don't have them. My main requirement as I mention any opportunity I get is for coefficients/indexes/rankings being used based on results to determine how many spots each country gets in each competition, rather than just determining pots.

I would also be OK with having the CONCACAF League and CCL run simultaneously. It seems like a lot of workload for a team to play in the CONCACAF League, win it, and then go into the CCL in the same season, but I'm not violently opposed to CL acting as qualifying for CCL.

[SpursFlu]

I think the sleeper here is Concacaf League. I think if it could serve as a quasi Central American Super league with a splash of Caribbean and a touch of Canada there is a huge growth potential. I would prefer to play a league structure there and help increase the revenue etc for that region. 50 million plus soccer fanatics, with a huge ex pat community in Mexico, US & Canada. MX and MLS are gonna play footsie in the meantime anyways

Edited March 2, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Trois Reds]

https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/05/08/usl-championship-concacaf-champions-league-qualifying-berth

I know this would be a couple years away, but USL is talking to CONCACAF about getting a berth in the CONCACAF league in the future.  No MLS2 sides.  Opinions, ideas?  Right now I'm on the fence.  On one hand it can bring in more money (American $), and exposure for the league, especially if there is a US TV deal involved.  It is a large league.   On the other hand, the USL and other lower American leagues already get a shot through the US Open Cup, even if it's just the one slot and they have to beat MLS competition on the way.

Considering Montagliani already mentioned the expansion of the Champion's league in future, it would be interesting to see what happens in the next little while

[SpursFlu]

At first as a traditionalist I would be against it. As a fan of soccer in the region in think it would do nothing but make it all more interesting. Which is good. As a Whitecaps fan I liked it because please for the love of god stop adding teams to the MLS. So give people a reason to just stay or invest in USL

[Kent]

No, no, a thousand times no.

1. Haven’t we always been told that Nations get spots, not leagues? It was impossible to make an exception for the Canadian MLS teams, but a much bigger exception could be made for the USL?

2. If any country deserves more than 4 spots in CONCACAF club competitions, it’s Mexico. Not the USA.

The only way something like this wouldn’t completely enrage me is if the spots were taken from MLS teams and given to USL teams as punishment for not allowing promotion/relegation. Say 2 spots per league. The article was suggesting rewarding the USA for their stupidity rather than punishing.

Come to think of it, didn’t Mexico recently announce they aren’t going to have pro/rel between their top two divisions for the next 5 years? Are they angling for more spots for their second division as well?

The way the article talked about USL being bigger than many leagues in CONCACAF was trying to make it sound unique, but it isn’t. The English Championship I am sure must have a lot more fans and money in it than lots of leagues in Europe, and no doubt its the same for other big 2nd divisions. The only thing unique here is the widespread belief that Americans are an exception purely because they are American.

[SpursFlu]

I hear ya Ken but I kinda feel as Bob Dylan said. Times they are a changing. Plus it is unique that over half the population of our region in kn the US. Europe is different. I think a merged S N America isn't out of the picture either

But I hope not that much changes. I still think there is much possibility in the growth of club football in our region 

I think this article sums things up nicely regarding the state of footy in Concacaf

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2020/05/08/concacaf-mls-liga-mx-merger-ccl-turf-war-montagliani-uefa

Edited May 11, 2020 by SpursFlu

[CanadianSoccerFan]

On 5/10/2020 at 10:55 PM, SpursFlu said:

I hear ya Ken but I kinda feel as Bob Dylan said. Times they are a changing. Plus it is unique that over half the population of our region in kn the US. Europe is different. I think a merged S N America isn't out of the picture either

But I hope not that much changes. I still think there is much possibility in the growth of club football in our region 

I think this article sums things up nicely regarding the state of footy in Concacaf

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/soccer/2020/05/08/concacaf-mls-liga-mx-merger-ccl-turf-war-montagliani-uefa

 

Brian Strauss is one of the first journalists I've seen to address the elephant in the room around CCL.  Every time you hear people complain about the existence of Campeones Cup, Leagues Cup, or the old Superliga, the italicized paragraph below is the reason those came into existence, and it's the reason MLS won't just scrap them and focus on CCL.    

    

The biggest problem with the CCL, however, at least from an MLS/Liga MX perspective, is that they don’t own it. Concacaf profits off the CCL. MLS and Liga MX don’t. The rights to a merged league, however? The money earned there would go straight to New York City and Mexico City.

 

[Ansem]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:59 PM, CanadianSoccerFan said:

 

Brian Strauss is one of the first journalists I've seen to address the elephant in the room around CCL.  Every time you hear people complain about the existence of Campeones Cup, Leagues Cup, or the old Superliga, the italicized paragraph below is the reason those came into existence, and it's the reason MLS won't just scrap them and focus on CCL.    

    

The biggest problem with the CCL, however, at least from an MLS/Liga MX perspective, is that they don’t own it. Concacaf profits off the CCL. MLS and Liga MX don’t. The rights to a merged league, however? The money earned there would go straight to New York City and Mexico City.

 

That league cup is worthless though and Mexican clubs don't take it seriously.

CCL is your ticket to the FIFA Club World Cup and face UEFA champs or Libertadores Champs. Huge opportunity to grow the brand + prize money + players opportunity to shine againts world giants.

That's why Liga MX clubs takes it VERY seriously. 

The league cup is an MLS pick me up to compensate for their inability to win CCL

[CanadianSoccerFan]

50 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That league cup is worthless though and Mexican clubs don't take it seriously.

CCL is your ticket to the FIFA Club World Cup and face UEFA champs or Libertadores Champs. Huge opportunity to grow the brand + prize money + players opportunity to shine againts world giants.

That's why Liga MX clubs takes it VERY seriously. 

The league cup is an MLS pick me up to compensate for their inability to win CCL

 

You have to separate the thinking of fans/players/coaches from that of the business people (owners).  Nobody is disputing that Leagues cup and Campeones cup are worthless.  It's about the real reasons they exist and why the owners persist with them in the face of the public stating the obvious about their lack of legitimacy.  And no, it has nothing to do with "MLS compensating for CCL results".  It's not about wins and losses,  It's about money and control.  

To a fan it's simple, CCL is legitimate and leagues cup and campeones cup are fake.  To the business people running MLS they view CCL as whoring themselves out for another company (CONCACAF) who collects the TV money and sponsorship for themselves and only pays out a pittance to the clubs in prize money.  It doesn't help that CONCACAF sells sponsorships to companies that are direct competitors of MLS sponsors.  The owners hate this and are desperate to cut CONCACAF out of the pie.  The problem is that CONCACAF holds the trump card of the club world cup ticket so the legitimacy battle can't be won.  Just don't expect them to stop trying anyway.

 

[narduch]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

That league cup is worthless though and Mexican clubs don't take it seriously.

The league cup is an MLS pick me up to compensate for their inability to win CCL

I agree that it's worhlthless.

But I think the main driver is to make money off Mexican-Americans.

[Ruffian]

14 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

You have to separate the thinking of fans/players/coaches from that of the business people (owners).  Nobody is disputing that Leagues cup and Campeones cup are worthless.  It's about the real reasons they exist and why the owners persist with them in the face of the public stating the obvious about their lack of legitimacy.  And no, it has nothing to do with "MLS compensating for CCL results".  It's not about wins and losses,  It's about money and control.  

The Leagues cup and Campeones cup are just valuable to fans who want to see big name clubs similar to European clubs coming to NA for friendlies. There is a market for this and a market for fans interested in actual competition.

[Ansem]

In the meantime in Europe, they are adding a third Tier 

 

[narduch]

Should have called it the Intertoto Cup.

[SpursFlu]

I think add 2 more teams.. both Canadian or at least 1 more Canadian, 1 more Caribbean. Make it a complete 24 team bracket

Top 5 to Champions League

5 Mexican

5 American 

1 Canadian 

Create 4 groups of 4, top 2 in each go to a 8 team bracket. Now you have two proper competitons 

Edited December 3, 2020 by SpursFlu

[xcalibre]

They've tried groups (4 and 3 team) in recent history and dropped them, are we really advanced enough to go back?

The whole point seems to be maximizing MLS vs. Mexican games (especially in the US). I could see preliminary groups with everyone else played in a neutral location (i.e. Forge hosting a 4-team group of Central American and Caribbean teams, or in Miami) before getting to dance with the big boys over two legs

Edited December 4, 2020 by xcalibre

[Ansem]

15 minutes ago, xcalibre said:

They've tried groups (4 and 3 team) in recent history and dropped them, are we really advanced enough to go back?

The whole point seems to be maximizing MLS vs. Mexican games (especially in the US). I could see preliminary groups with everyone else played in a neutral location (i.e. Forge hosting a 4-team group of Central American and Caribbean teams, or in Miami) before getting to dance with the big boys over two legs

They dropped it to accommodate MLS

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, xcalibre said:

They've tried groups (4 and 3 team) in recent history and dropped them, are we really advanced enough to go back?

The whole point seems to be maximizing MLS vs. Mexican games (especially in the US). I could see preliminary groups with everyone else played in a neutral location (i.e. Forge hosting a 4-team group of Central American and Caribbean teams, or in Miami) before getting to dance with the big boys over two legs

I think if you stack the league with MLS and Mexican teams it makes sense. You'd basically create a MLS/MEX group +1

So I think it would work cuz mls has closed the gap and the top top all others compete also

You'd also turn the Concacaf League in to a pretty important competition because getting in to that group would be a nice revenue injection. Imagine a CPL team getting in to a group stage. Those would be big draws

[Shway]

I think Concacaf should scrap the CFU championships and the money they put into it, and incorporate more Caribbean teams in the preliminary stages of the CCL. The Concacaf League should be a fallout tournament that is played in parallel to the Champions league vs it being a play in tournament/separate season. 

- The 16 losers from the preliminary round will join the Concacaf League in a two-legged knockout to the finals. 

 

[narduch]

4 hours ago, Shway said:

I think Concacaf should scrap the CFU championships and the money they put into it, and incorporate more Caribbean teams in the preliminary stages of the CCL. The Concacaf League should be a fallout tournament that is played in parallel to the Champions league vs it being a play in tournament/separate season. 

- The 16 losers from the preliminary round will join the Concacaf League in a two-legged knockout to the finals. 

 

Apparently only 4 Carribean nations have "professional" leagues and they are the only nations that take part in the club competitions: Jamaica, Haiti, Dominican Republic and T&T. T&T didn't take part recently because they were banned.