Ike Ugbo

[DeRo_Is_King]

42 minutes ago, narduch said:

Did they fire Kisnorbo yet?

Haven't seen any official announcement. Apparently, he wasn't at today's game due to illness. 

[footballfreak]

Obviously this season has been a disaster for Troyes and Ugbo, but if you just look at his output (2 goals and an assist in 500 minutes), that’s still a goal contribution every 167 minutes. That tracks with his 2022 season where he contributed every 164 minutes, despite the minutes in ‘23 being lower in quality - spread over 20 games vs 14 in ‘22.

For comparison, his teammate Mama Baldé averaged a goal contribution every 152 minutes (2281 mins total). Better, but not “start him every game” better imo. Obviously there’s more to the position than goals and assists, but you do have to wonder whether Ugbo should have been given more of a chance than he got.

 

Canadian attackers* minutes per goal contribution in 22/23 (league only):

Jonathan David - 106

Cyle Larin - 119 (Valladolid + Brugges)

Lucas Cavallini - 163 (2023)

Ike Ugbo - 167

Jonathan Osorio - 180 (2023)

Stephen Eustaquio - 184

Jacob Shaffelburg - 251 (2023)

Theo Bair - 280 

Alphonso Davies - 409 

Tajon Buchanan - 542 

Ayo Akinola - 747 (2022+2023)

Ismael Kone - 953

Liam Millar - 1085 

* I probably missed some, but my battery is nearly dead.

[narduch]

18 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Obviously this season has been a disaster for Troyes and Ugbo, but if you just look at his output (2 goals and an assist in 500 minutes), that’s still a goal contribution every 167 minutes. That tracks with his 2022 season where he contributed every 164 minutes, despite the minutes in ‘23 being lower in quality - spread over 20 games vs 14 in ‘22.

For comparison, his teammate Mama Baldé averaged a goal contribution every 152 minutes (2281 mins total). Better, but not “start him every game” better imo. Obviously there’s more to the position than goals and assists, but you do have to wonder whether Ugbo should have been given more of a chance than he got.

 

Canadian attackers* minutes per goal contribution in 22/23 (league only):

Jonathan David - 106

Cyle Larin - 119 (Valladolid + Brugges)

Lucas Cavallini - 163 (2023)

Ike Ugbo - 167

Jonathan Osorio - 180 (2023)

Stephen Eustaquio - 184

Jacob Shaffelburg - 251 (2023)

Theo Bair - 280 

Alphonso Davies - 409 

Tajon Buchanan - 542 

Ayo Akinola - 747 (2022+2023)

Ismael Kone - 953

Liam Millar - 1085 

* I probably missed some, but my battery is nearly dead.

I'm curious to see if he sticks around when they are in Ligue 2 next season.

They are 10 points from safety with 6 games remaining. Its hopeless.

Have to figure they will have a new manager too.

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

I'm curious to see if he sticks around when they are in Ligue 2 next season.

They are 10 points from safety with 6 games remaining. Its hopeless.

Have to figure they will have a new manager too.

If they/a new manager wants him back, I'm not sure he can say no. He might have other options, but it's hard to see them being great ones after this season. 

Of course, maybe one of the Canadian MLS clubs is interested. In recent years the Whitecaps have targeted players dropping down a league that they can get for cheap/free, and striker is one of their positions of need.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

If they/a new manager wants him back, I'm not sure he can say no. He might have other options, but it's hard to see them being great ones after this season. 

Of course, maybe one of the Canadian MLS clubs is interested. In recent years the Whitecaps have targeted players dropping down a league that they can get for cheap/free, and striker is one of their positions of need.

Denis Bouanga is a good example 

Edited April 23, 2023 by narduch

[footballfreak]

8 hours ago, Watchmen said:

If they/a new manager wants him back, I'm not sure he can say no. He might have other options, but it's hard to see them being great ones after this season. 

Of course, maybe one of the Canadian MLS clubs is interested. In recent years the Whitecaps have targeted players dropping down a league that they can get for cheap/free, and striker is one of their positions of need.

His profile might fit the Whitecaps, but they already picked up Sergio Cordova as their third DP in the offseason. Even if he ultimately flops, the FO are unlikely to part with him in a timeframe for an Ugbo move to happen this year. Ugbo’s salary demands are also probably more than Vancouver would be able to pay for a 1A/1B striker in a single striker system - particularly with Simon Becher performing so well. Even the much maligned Brian White is putting up a very respectable 0.89 xG+A/90. It would take something massive like Teibert and White’s contracts both being shipped out to make Ugbo a possibility.

Even then, there are more pressing concerns; namely at starting left back, and central midfield depth. The emergence of Ali Ahmed and resurgence of Alessandro Schöpf *may* have solved the midfield problem (still not totally convinced by Berhalter), but left back remains an open question that will need to be solved before the striker position is re-examined. If Raposo can show serious defensive growth and lock down the LB position in the next few months, then maybe Ugbo becomes a more realistic summer target, but it would require some creative accounting to fit him in.

[dyslexic nam]

I like MLS and respect the level of play.  But I would rather Ugbo fight for a spot in a solid European league than sign for an MLS team at this point.  Unless he absolutely shredded MLS, it seems like he would at best be angling for the type of transfer he could probably get anyway at this point.  

[narduch]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

I like MLS and respect the level of play.  But I would rather Ugbo fight for a spot in a solid European league than sign for an MLS team at this point.  Unless he absolutely shredded MLS, it seems like he would at best be angling for the type of transfer he could probably get anyway at this point.  

I wonder if he has a relegation release clause. 

Troyes are owned by the Man City owners. They may just keep him for Ligue 2

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I like MLS and respect the level of play.  But I would rather Ugbo fight for a spot in a solid European league than sign for an MLS team at this point.  Unless he absolutely shredded MLS, it seems like he would at best be angling for the type of transfer he could probably get anyway at this point.  

I'd prefer it as well. I just wonder if after that season how limited his options might be. Where ever he ends up, playing time is the key.

[Watchmen]

17 hours ago, footballfreak said:

His profile might fit the Whitecaps, but they already picked up Sergio Cordova as their third DP in the offseason. Even if he ultimately flops, the FO are unlikely to part with him in a timeframe for an Ugbo move to happen this year. Ugbo’s salary demands are also probably more than Vancouver would be able to pay for a 1A/1B striker in a single striker system - particularly with Simon Becher performing so well. Even the much maligned Brian White is putting up a very respectable 0.89 xG+A/90. It would take something massive like Teibert and White’s contracts both being shipped out to make Ugbo a possibility.

Even then, there are more pressing concerns; namely at starting left back, and central midfield depth. The emergence of Ali Ahmed and resurgence of Alessandro Schöpf *may* have solved the midfield problem (still not totally convinced by Berhalter), but left back remains an open question that will need to be solved before the striker position is re-examined. If Raposo can show serious defensive growth and lock down the LB position in the next few months, then maybe Ugbo becomes a more realistic summer target, but it would require some creative accounting to fit him in.

I'm not actually starting the "Ugbo to Vancouver" rumour, but it sounds like Dajome is on his way out, which frees up the cap space and a line up spot.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I like MLS and respect the level of play.  But I would rather Ugbo fight for a spot in a solid European league than sign for an MLS team at this point.  Unless he absolutely shredded MLS, it seems like he would at best be angling for the type of transfer he could probably get anyway at this point.  

I concur. There are many leagues of similar quality he could go to without going across the pond to play in North America. It's not going to get him greater exposure then he would get now, so what's the point?

That said, Man City own NYCFC and for perhaps that makes sense for those wanting an MLS move? It would be a cool opportunity to play in New York City and based on his insta he strikes me as the type of guy who'd fancy the lifestyle there. 

4 hours ago, narduch said:

I wonder if he has a relegation release clause. 

Troyes are owned by the Man City owners. They may just keep him for Ligue 2

I think keeping him for Ligue 2 is the way to go, but only if Balde leaves. Otherwise, it's just the same situation in a lower division. He has to play to score.

What do you guys think of Palmero being a possibility? They are in Serie B right now, but historically they've played in Serie A quite a bit - and they are owned by the City group. I don't watch Serie B or Ligue 2, but my guess is they would be more or less equivalent division, in which we could expect Ugbo to score tons of goals and get back on track. 

I guess Girona could be a remote possibility, especially seing what Larin is doing at that level. La Liga is obviously a big step up from Ligue 1, but I don't think the level is a problem, it's the opportunity. Maybe @Unnamed Trialist could tell us more about what Girona's striking options are, but perhaps Ugbo could be an option in a univerise where they need a starting striker.

After all, It wasn't long ago we talked about him joining the likes of Sheffield United, who will likely seal their EPL promotion. A similar level club to Girona, no?

 

[footballfreak]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not actually starting the "Ugbo to Vancouver" rumour, but it sounds like Dajome is on his way out, which frees up the cap space and a line up spot.

Interesting. Hadn’t heard that. Would still need to buy down Cordova to free up a DP spot, but certainly more possible now.

Great move from the Caps to unload that salary. Dajo just never found a position where he could excel here. Consistantly “okay” wherever they put him, but okay isn’t good enough for what he was paid. I hope he does well in DC.

[Watchmen]

6 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Interesting. Hadn’t heard that. Would still need to buy down Cordova to free up a DP spot, but certainly more possible now.

Great move from the Caps to unload that salary. Dajo just never found a position where he could excel here. Consistantly “okay” wherever they put him, but okay isn’t good enough for what he was paid. I hope he does well in DC.

The Dajome rumour is just breaking late this afternoon.

I would not want Ugbo on a DP salary. If that's what it would take, pass.

[footballfreak]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The Dajome rumour is just breaking late this afternoon.

I would not want Ugbo on a DP salary. If that's what it would take, pass.

Transfer fee counts against his salary, no? Or is his contract expiring?

[Watchmen]

18 minutes ago, footballfreak said:

Transfer fee counts against his salary, no? Or is his contract expiring?

Sometimes when clubs drop down, the player is released. I wouldn't pay a transfer fee for him either.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, Obinna said:

I concur. There are many leagues of similar quality he could go to without going across the pond to play in North America. It's not going to get him greater exposure then he would get now, so what's the point?

That said, Man City own NYCFC and for perhaps that makes sense for those wanting an MLS move? It would be a cool opportunity to play in New York City and based on his insta he strikes me as the type of guy who'd fancy the lifestyle there. 

I think keeping him for Ligue 2 is the way to go, but only if Balde leaves. Otherwise, it's just the same situation in a lower division. He has to play to score.

What do you guys think of Palmero being a possibility? They are in Serie B right now, but historically they've played in Serie A quite a bit - and they are owned by the City group. I don't watch Serie B or Ligue 2, but my guess is they would be more or less equivalent division, in which we could expect Ugbo to score tons of goals and get back on track. 

I guess Girona could be a remote possibility, especially seing what Larin is doing at that level. La Liga is obviously a big step up from Ligue 1, but I don't think the level is a problem, it's the opportunity. Maybe @Unnamed Trialist could tell us more about what Girona's striking options are, but perhaps Ugbo could be an option in a univerise where they need a starting striker.

After all, It wasn't long ago we talked about him joining the likes of Sheffield United, who will likely seal their EPL promotion. A similar level club to Girona, no?

 

Igbo is way below Taty Castellanos, ex NYCFC, who didn't play against Valladolid, and though Stuani is ageing and gets few minutes, his strike rate is quite high. Then they have that young Ukranian Tsygankov, more a wing. 

Girona didn't shine v Valladolid but had lots of injuries and lost two more to injury in the first minutes.

Have to remember Girona is a far better team than Troyes. They play Madrid in a few hours, only team in La Liga that doesn't have a losing record against RM.

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Igbo is way below Taty Castellanos, ex NYCFC, who didn't play against Valladolid, and though Stuani is ageing and gets few minutes, his strike rate is quite high. Then they have that young Ukranian Tsygankov, more a wing. 

Girona didn't shine v Valladolid but had lots of injuries and lost two more to injury in the first minutes.

Have to remember Girona is a far better team than Troyes. They play Madrid in a few hours, only team in La Liga that doesn't have a losing record against RM.

Case in point: Taty Castellanos scores 2 in 25 minutes vs Real Madrid. Don't think Ugbo is anywhere near all that.

Edit: 3 for Taty.

I was excited when he decided for us but he has to fight for his career, then we'll see if he can help us.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Case in point: Tasty Castellanos scores 2 in 25 minutes vs Real Madrid. Don't think Ugbo is anywhere near all that.

Edit: 3 for Taty.

I was excited when he decided for us but he has to fight for his career, then we'll see if he can help us.

Holy shit- Castellanos 4 goals in a game to beat Real Madrid today. That has to be the best single game performance in the world this year.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Holy shit- Castellanos 4 goals in a game to beat Real Madrid today. That has to be the best single game performance in the world this year.

For him to do it against Real Madrid while playing for Girona sure.....but I'm pretty sure Haaland had 3 goals and 2 assists against United. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, Shway said:

For him to do it against Real Madrid while playing for Girona sure.....but I'm pretty sure Haaland had 3 goals and 2 assists against United. 

Man City beating United in a league that defends sloppily and has frequent blowouts does not compare with Girona, a virtual minnow, beating Real Madrid. The difference is vast in budget, history, expectations, for example.

In any case, the last time a player scored 4 vs. Madrid in the league was an Oviedo player in the late 1940s. Last time ever was Lewandowski exactly 4 years ago for Dortmund, at home. 

Makes the Valladolid win against them last win all the more valuable, considering Girona is the third highest scorer in La Liga, so holding them scoreless was a feat.

[DeRo_Is_King]

He starts for Troyes vs PSG. 

[A_Gagne]

On 4/23/2023 at 4:56 PM, footballfreak said:

Obviously this season has been a disaster for Troyes and Ugbo, but if you just look at his output (2 goals and an assist in 500 minutes), that’s still a goal contribution every 167 minutes. That tracks with his 2022 season where he contributed every 164 minutes, despite the minutes in ‘23 being lower in quality - spread over 20 games vs 14 in ‘22.

For comparison, his teammate Mama Baldé averaged a goal contribution every 152 minutes (2281 mins total). Better, but not “start him every game” better imo. Obviously there’s more to the position than goals and assists, but you do have to wonder whether Ugbo should have been given more of a chance than he got.

 

Canadian attackers* minutes per goal contribution in 22/23 (league only):

Jonathan David - 106

Cyle Larin - 119 (Valladolid + Brugges)

Lucas Cavallini - 163 (2023)

Ike Ugbo - 167

Jonathan Osorio - 180 (2023)

Stephen Eustaquio - 184

Jacob Shaffelburg - 251 (2023)

Theo Bair - 280 

Alphonso Davies - 409 

Tajon Buchanan - 542 

Ayo Akinola - 747 (2022+2023)

Ismael Kone - 953

Liam Millar - 1085 

* I probably missed some, but my battery is nearly dead.

Vitoria - 327... not that he's an "Attacker", but guy's bagged a bunch this year.

[Snowcrash]

7 hours ago, A_Gagne said:

Vitoria - 327... not that he's an "Attacker", but guy's bagged a bunch this year.

Goals per minutes comparisons are a bit misleading, particularly for Ugbo, because I've watched a lot of those minutes and quite frankly his work rate and body language isn't great.  

[jordan]

Out today, was listed 50/50 due to a hip issue

[narduch]

Troyes officially relegated today