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youllneverwalkalone

CPL Conspiracy Theory: Proxy War

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On 2/3/2020 at 9:38 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

What does not make sense is that the big 5 in England want this super league, then accept this glut of useless fixtures in the English system, with FA replays and other cups no one cares about, and overplaying over Xmas and burning out players mid season. They all go to the US and elsewhere for those preseason tournaments which do not really help the team prepare for a tough season.

Only big team fans call these cups useless. These are often the best chances for “smaller” clubs to qualify for Europe. In my opinion the FA should petition UEFA to allow the fa cup winner to qualify for the champions league. It would probably make the big teams care a bit more.

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4 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Only big team fans call these cups useless. These are often the best chances for “smaller” clubs to qualify for Europe. In my opinion the FA should petition UEFA to allow the fa cup winner to qualify for the champions league. It would probably make the big teams care a bit more.

Would they actually have to petition UEFA for that?  I've just always assumed the leagues decided how they wanted to allocate their berths in Europe.

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11 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

Only big team fans call these cups useless. These are often the best chances for “smaller” clubs to qualify for Europe. In my opinion the FA should petition UEFA to allow the fa cup winner to qualify for the champions league. It would probably make the big teams care a bit more.

The Carabao Cup, quite the rage. All the fans just rave about how useful and exciting it is--for the sponsors.

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7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The Carabao Cup, quite the rage. All the fans just rave about how useful and exciting it is--for the sponsors.

My dad is a lifelong Leicester supporter and grew up going to games. If we hadn’t won the league the only two time he would have seen them in Europe was due to the league cup. Nah maybe a Liverpool or Chelsea’s supporter thinks it’s stupid as they’re already in Europe guaranteed every season. To them it just creates fixture congestion but to fans of non top 6 teams these cups are massive. And beyond that these cups are important to the clubs to non prem teams. Having a prem team come to town or a away day at a big club can be hugely important for these clubs financially. Cup runs for small teams like Shrewsbury can help pay for better players to move up the divisions. Now I’m not saying clubs rely on the cups, they don’t, but having these cups are important to 90% of fans and most clubs. In my opinion it’s disgusting what some managers do to disrespect the cup. They run out a youth team with out a care in the world if they win. They don’t have to put out a first team obviously but at least put out the second team and a couple reserves. There’s always discussion about removing the League cup but when you look at the conversations it’s only ever supporters of the big 6 who want it gone.

14 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Would they actually have to petition UEFA for that?  I've just always assumed the leagues decided how they wanted to allocate their berths in Europe.

Yes they would as the rules state all champions league spot must be based on the league and not cup competitions.

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2 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

My dad is a lifelong Leicester supporter and grew up going to games. If we hadn’t won the league the only two time he would have seen them in Europe was due to the league cup. Nah maybe a Liverpool or Chelsea’s supporter thinks it’s stupid as they’re already in Europe guaranteed every season. To them it just creates fixture congestion but to fans of non top 6 teams these cups are massive. And beyond that these cups are important to the clubs to non prem teams. Having a prem team come to town or a away day at a big club can be hugely important for these clubs financially. Cup runs for small teams like Shrewsbury can help pay for better players to move up the divisions. Now I’m not saying clubs rely on the cups, they don’t, but having these cups are important to 90% of fans and most clubs. In my opinion it’s disgusting what some managers do to disrespect the cup. They run out a youth team with out a care in the world if they win. They don’t have to put out a first team obviously but at least put out the second team and a couple reserves. There’s always discussion about removing the League cup but when you look at the conversations it’s only ever supporters of the big 6 who want it gone.

Yes they would as the rules state all champions league spot must be based on the league and not cup competitions.

Fair enough, but that is called the FA Cup. It is what all countries have, whatever the name, inspired historically by the FA and of course the equivalent cups in Scotland especially. The Carabao EFL is an invented Cup with no real value or meaning other than having a sponsor pushing it. That England decides a winner might have a UEFA spot is their problem, I think it is absurd. 

By the way, after years of backwardness, the Spanish FA has a new cup formula they say is inspired by the FA Cup, what do you think? Single game knockouts up to quarter finals. Always in the stadium of the team of a lower category if from different tiers; if the same category, pure draw. You can dress no more than 6 players from a lower team, academy or B team, and no more than 4 on the field at any time (at least 7 first team players at all times). No replays for draws, same as knockouts in the WC. This year the last four standing are At Bilbao, Granada, Real Sociedad and a very modest 2nd division side, Mirandés.

I follow many lower league teams and have for decades. All lower league teams have a fairly major trophy they can win which is their league; arguing that without the extra annex cup they would not get that chance at a trophy is erroneous. You win National League and promote to League 2 and you celebrate like idiots, madly, you can get a pitch invasion, wake up hung over on a park bench and slink home, happy. This can even happen if you are saved from relegation last day of a season. 

I have never met a fan of a 4th tier team say they miss not seeing European teams come through every now and then and the system is unfair.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough, but that is called the FA Cup. It is what all countries have, whatever the name, inspired historically by the FA and of course the equivalent cups in Scotland especially. The Carabao EFL is an invented Cup with no real value or meaning other than having a sponsor pushing it. That England decides a winner might have a UEFA spot is their problem, I think it is absurd. 

By the way, after years of backwardness, the Spanish FA has a new cup formula they say is inspired by the FA Cup, what do you think? Single game knockouts up to quarter finals. Always in the stadium of the team of a lower category if from different tiers; if the same category, pure draw. You can dress no more than 6 players from a lower team, academy or B team, and no more than 4 on the field at any time (at least 7 first team players at all times). No replays for draws, same as knockouts in the WC. This year the last four standing are At Bilbao, Granada, Real Sociedad and a very modest 2nd division side, Mirandés.

I follow many lower league teams and have for decades. All lower league teams have a fairly major trophy they can win which is their league; arguing that without the extra annex cup they would not get that chance at a trophy is erroneous. You win National League and promote to League 2 and you celebrate like idiots, madly, you can get a pitch invasion, wake up hung over on a park bench and slink home, happy. This can even happen if you are saved from relegation last day of a season. 

I have never met a fan of a 4th tier team say they miss not seeing European teams come through every now and then and the system is unfair.

I like the rules they’ve created with the cup in terms of players on the field and hope that the FA will do the same though I doubt they have the guts to upset the big 6. In terms of the game always being at the lower division teams stadium I’m in two minds on it. On the one side it will give the teams a chance to have an amazing atmosphere vs a great team which could help them win. On the other side playing in the big teams stadium can often give an injection a cash that is much needed, due to revenue sharing in the fa cup (45% to both teams 10% to the FA). Are there similar rules in Spain? I’d personally rather that it either stay a random draw or give the lower league team the choice of being home or away.

In terms of the major trophy for smaller teams. I was more talking about smaller teams in the premier league chance at a trophy. The chance of a lower league team winning the cup is next to none. I hope they don’t remove the EFL cup as it will give bottom half clubs one less chance to qualify for Europe.

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4 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

I like the rules they’ve created with the cup in terms of players on the field and hope that the FA will do the same though I doubt they have the guts to upset the big 6. In terms of the game always being at the lower division teams stadium I’m in two minds on it. On the one side it will give the teams a chance to have an amazing atmosphere vs a great team which could help them win. On the other side playing in the big teams stadium can often give an injection a cash that is much needed, due to revenue sharing in the fa cup (45% to both teams 10% to the FA). Are there similar rules in Spain? I’d personally rather that it either stay a random draw or give the lower league team the choice of being home or away.

In terms of the major trophy for smaller teams. I was more talking about smaller teams in the premier league chance at a trophy. The chance of a lower league team winning the cup is next to none. I hope they don’t remove the EFL cup as it will give bottom half clubs one less chance to qualify for Europe.

Understood about the EFL. I still think it is a bit much. 

DAZN bought the Spain cup rights so I'm not sure if revenue is any good, especially for the lower tier sides. Usually having a big club through and the generous gate is enough to make a huge difference on finances. This is our setup with the V Cup in Canada if a CPL side gets a MLS visit, I think gate outmatches TV. 

Mirandés is a small town with a stadium too small even for 2nd division and they've beaten 3 Liga teams this month. Only problem is that weather has been poor these weeks. Now they'll host Real Sociedad in semis. 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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