TFC 2020 Season

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Yes.  You could also say that the group of backup CB’s are just not dependable.   When Laurent  Ciman played in Montreal, they had trouble winning balls in the air and team conceded alot goals off of headers.   Its the same thing with Ciman at TFC.  He is also not a good man marker.  I was honnestly surprised when they acquired him.  He does have the element of being able to play nice balls out of the back but that all seems secondary when its the defensive attributes are ultimately count in that role.

TFC have squandered quite few points very late in the game over the past two years. I am talking about games where they were in control.  

Ciman had some defensive vulnerabilities when playing with Montreal, but his physical attributes have fallen off a cliff since then. There is no longer any ability to recover from a mistake. 

That said, what does it say for the fitness of Gonzalez and Mavinga that both were asking to come off after 60 minutes of a match where their team was totally in control and the CBs were barely called upon to run at any point.

[gwsmith63]

There is a Pet Shop Boys song/tune hidden in here somewhere today. 🤔

Edited July 13, 2020 by gwsmith63

[Bison44]

14 minutes ago, gwsmith63 said:

There is a Pet Shop Boys song hidden in here somewhere today. 🤔

Now there is something to make me stop and think.     Take my mind off what I watched this morning.  Maybe "What have i done to deserve this??"

[gwsmith63]

To the tune of ‘Go West’.  😉
 

Village People originally. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by gwsmith63

[Rocket Robin]

I'd like to see a rule (by handshake) for the next game...TFC vs Montreal with them both agreeing to play with Canadian Championship rules (!?).  That means they each start with three CANADIAN starters.  Today TFC had no Canadian starters and brought in Richie Laryea for the second half.  Blame the tie on an old French guy and the coach's nephew.  When will the Canadians play?  "Oh we've got to win the next game and we've got to win the last group game and we've got to win each knockout game or we're out".  I guess TFC needs a 3-0 lead or to be behind by three goals before we see some of their young Canadians. 

[Gian-Luca]

Ciman proved last year in the playoffs that he could still be useful when paired with a competent fellow centre-back.

Zavaleta however hasn't proven useful in about 4 years. In any other team if he had performed like this he would be long gone, so it's tough not to think of Vanney's main weakness as a coach - the nepotism - being a huge cause here. That said I had to watch the game on mute whilst I was working from home and could not understand what TFC was trying to do with the ball once they made those two subs - it was like Westberg was waiting until the last minute to play it and only succeeded in inviting pressure from a 10-man team that should have been the ones on the backfoot.

[Obinna]

I think Vanney's alleged tendency towards nepotism is part of a larger flaw of his. This flaw is him stubbornly sticking to ideas, concepts and even players. He seems to have a hard time letting go of things once they take hold.

Think 2019 in the Champions League. All the talk leading up to the season was how Vanney wanted to play with wide forwards. He was so committed to his philosophy of wide play that he chose a formation he never actually had the players for at the time. He valued his philosophy over the pragmatism of getting results and Toronto got knocked out.  

I suspect it is the same with certain players. He sticks to some players stubbornly when perhaps he shouldn't.

I think it is easy to call it nepotism in the case of Zavaleta, but what drives that nepotism is what I am describing above. It could be nepotism just for the sake of it, but it sure fits the pattern I am describing. 

Got to take the good with the bad though. He is still one of the better managers in Major League Soccer. It just annoys me to no end sometimes....

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think Vanney's alleged tendency towards nepotism is part of a larger flaw of his. This flaw is him stubbornly sticking to ideas, concepts and even players. He seems to have a hard time letting go of things once they take hold.

Think 2019 in the Champions League. All the talk leading up to the season was how Vanney wanted to play with wide forwards. He was so committed to his philosophy of wide play that he chose a formation he never actually had the players for at the time. He valued his philosophy over the pragmatism of getting results and Toronto got knocked out.  

I suspect it is the same with certain players. He sticks to some players stubbornly when perhaps he shouldn't.

I think it is easy to call it nepotism in the case of Zavaleta, but what drives that nepotism is what I am describing above. It could be nepotism just for the sake of it, but it sure fits the pattern I am describing. 

Got to take the good with the bad though. He is still one of the better managers in Major League Soccer. It just annoys me to no end sometimes....

I remember an interview with Jay Chapman earlier this year, i think on the Onesoccer Hangouts series.  Chapman said it was probably best for him to leave TFC because Vanney establishes a rotation of 14-16 players and he sticks to it pretty religiously.  If you are not in that rotation, and the team stays relatively healthy, you get very little playing time, even if you play well when you get a chance.  Chapman wasn't criticising Vanney, he stated that is what made him successful and he stuck to it.

[Bison44]

42 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I remember an interview with Jay Chapman earlier this year, i think on the Onesoccer Hangouts series.  Chapman said it was probably best for him to leave TFC because Vanney establishes a rotation of 14-16 players and he sticks to it pretty religiously.  If you are not in that rotation, and the team stays relatively healthy, you get very little playing time, even if you play well when you get a chance.  Chapman wasn't criticising Vanney, he stated that is what made him successful and he stuck to it.

What makes him successful (as opposed to other coaches we have had) is that TFC opened the vaults and the the majority of signings were very good.  The management hit home runs with Giovinco, Vasquez and Poz, Alitdore and Bradley were very overpaid, but top notch.  He isnt a bad coach, but the amount of times he tries to be too cute, or too stubborn (thanks Obinna, maybe not nepotism)hurt the team.  Some coaches build winners without having the talent he has had.  When he is at his next coaching job, and not bankrolled by MLSE CDN dollars will be a better test to see if he is as smart as he thinks he is.  

[Free kick]

I fear for the next hire.  Thats why i stick by him.  Prior to the hiring of Vanney TFC was going through coaches like old socks.   Some were terrible, some we dont know because  nobody who was hired had a chance to follow through on implementing his philospohy and seeing it take hold.  The guy would come in and then proceed to get rid of a bunch of players (some of whom went on to have good careers with othe teams in MLS) because they didn’t fit his vision or style.  Then that guy would bring in his own players,  some of whom might have been good,  but it would take time to get that chemistry or understanding on the pitch.  Hence the team would struggle.  And,  the front office would lose patience and fire him.   In comes the next guy and the cycle would repeat itself.  That went on for about 8 years until they stumbled on a guy named Giovinco, who made everyone look good including the coach.

So now,  unlike the first 8 years,  there is continuity with the coach.    Players on the pitch can read each others movements,  they know whats expected of them, and any personel chances that are made are considered upgrades instead of overhauls.   Thats how you remain good for four years.    In this league, where your dealing with mid-level talent,  continuity is important.   Unlike, say, Real madrid whereby you will always spend to make sure you have the best possible talent so you can just throw an all-star team out on the pitch and have them do their stuff.  In those environments, you can change coaches more often because the superior talent you have will alway compensate for the lack of chemistry.  
 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Free kick

[jonovision]

TFC have had the highest payroll in the league since at least 2016. This is another advantage for Vanney when compared with previous bosses.

[Free kick]

23 minutes ago, jonovision said:

TFC have had the highest payroll in the league since at least 2016. This is another advantage for Vanney when compared with previous bosses.

But thats because of those one or two DP’s they signed.   As for the rest of the squad,  well every team has to deal with the same CAP system.   When Giovinco was injured or out of action,  they didnt seem to miss a step.
 

sidebar:  watched few FC Miami games this week.  There is good example of lack of chemistry.  The team looks likes it lacks ideas when they are on the pitch and thats because nobody can read any team mate’s movements so they look mechanical and uninventive.  They make the simple and obvious passes and movements but nothing  daring.  I dont think its about the talent but thats what you get with new teams when you throw a bunch of players together and dont have continuity.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Free kick

[Bison44]

I dont think if TFC got a new coach he would shit can Jozy, Poz, Piatti, Gonzalez, Mavinga etc.  Its a very good core and it should be kept together.  Those first years there wasnt even 3-4 good players to build around, so many holes to fill.  TFC wasnt bringing in the kinds of big signings that brought success later.  Remember Vitti, Mista, Frings (closer to 40 than 30), Gilberto..its no wonder any new guy would want to shuffle the deck and try for a better squad.  

[shamrock]

Not because of the bad pass, but Ciman is terribly slow. At some point good positioning can't make up for that anymore. I think that point is long past us. 

[Gian-Luca]

Laryea to start against Montreal, while Marshall-Rutty makes the bench (along with 4 other Canucks)

[Free kick]

A score reminscent of old time hockey so far.  41st min.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Free kick

[Gian-Luca]

14 minutes ago, Free kick said:

A score reminscent of old time hockey so far.  41st min.

Might end up 8-6

[Free kick]

The weird thing is.  I am hard pressed to blame the defenders for any of these 5 goals.  Each goal was the result of some superb ball delivered.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Free kick

[Gian-Luca]

57 minutes ago, Free kick said:

The weird thing is.  I am hard pressed to blame the defenders for any of these 5 goals.  Each goal was the result of some superb ball delivered.

I am not that hard pressed to blame Mavinga on Montreal’s 1st pk goal of the night 

[Free kick]

Thierry Henry is the new coach.  So it normal that he gets a lot rope from the fans.  They want to be patience.  But what i dont get is the decsion to go with Clement Diop and benching Bush.   Diop was poorly regarded when he was in LA and he was a backup in LA as well. I heard some commentor suggest he is amongst the worst GK’s  in the league.  Was Bush really poor?  Alos, he is putting players at right back that should be in a central role.  Piette last game, Shome tonight.   Shome didnt look bad but he not a true HB is he?   

Diop cant be blamed for the goals against.  But a good keeper could have stopped some of those shots that went in.  Including Bush.  Westberg made some game saving stops.   Diop did not.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Free kick

[Gian-Luca]

[Free kick]

I dont like the 12th one on the list.   There is no need to fire up and motivate the opposition.   And it wont win him respect in the league.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Free kick

[Gian-Luca]

Maybe he was referring to their new uniforms with that one.

[Big_M]

bush should be the number 1 for montreal..diop indeed was awful in la and makes a lot of big mistakes

[Blackdude]

52 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Thierry Henry is the new coach.  So it normal that he gets a lot rope from the fans.  They want to be patience.  But what i dont get is the decsion to go with Clement Diop and benching Bush.   Diop was poorly regarded when he was in LA and he was a backup in LA as well. I heard some commentor suggest he is amongst the worst GK’s  in the league.  Was Bush really poor?  

That's the one of the rare that Impact fans get. Bush was among the worst goalkeepers in the league last year. Diop played well in the Canadian Championship and in late-season MLS  last year. It wasn't surprising that Bush lost his #1 spot with the Impact.