TFC 2020 Season

[reggietfc]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

Here's my guess for roster decisions:

Under Contract (17)
Bradley, Altidore, Gomez, Mavinga, Piatti, Pozuello, Delgado, Osorio, Marshall-Rutty, Nelson, Peruzza, Silva, Priso, Achara, DeLeon, Westberg, Laryea, 

Out of Contract/Free Agent (4 - don't see them coming back)
Bono, Mullins, Ciman, Gallardo

Out of Contract/Free Agent - see them possibly coming back, on re-worked deals (3)
Morrow, Zavaleta (let's see if Vanney has his way), Gallacher (loan extension) 

Options Exercised (3)
Okello, Auro, Dunn, Shaffelburg

Options Not-Excercised (4)
Dorsey, Endoh, Romeo, Fraser

__________

Reality is a rebuild is not possible based on the amount of guys who are "core" pieces and are still under contract. I don't see any contracts being waived also. Restructuring/managing will be Vanney's greatest task to date. However just under a million dollars will be available in salary with expiring contracts, or reworked contracts.

The surprise I think will be that Fraser is gone this year. Unless Okello is sold on return from his loan (which I doubt) and the emergence of Priso will solidify that decision. If not they're will be a crazy backlog of centre midfielders on a team that needs more spots for proven wingers.

*Guys in red is the 12 guys who I think TFC will protect for the 2020 Expansion draft. 

dont think piatti is under contract,may be a club option,but he is not a dp,if they could sign him has tam i would keep him,a winger,striker,cb is what they need,and maybe a fresh face in the coaching staff.

[reggietfc]

31 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

By Gomez you mean Gonzalez (rather than Hercules) I take it?

at this point i rather have hercules playing cb then molasses omar.

[Dominic94]

Thought Altidore’s contract was up ?

[Shway]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

By Gomez you mean Gonzalez (rather than Hercules) I take it?

Yes thanks,...I don't know why I always do that. 

[Free kick]

I really really dont get the “Hate on” i read here for Omar Gonzales.   The central Pairing of Gonzales and Mavinga has been fine.   Its one of the better pairings in the league. The real issues arise (and you clearly see it) is when one of the two is injured or not avaiable.  I hope that people realize that:

1) you cant go an entire season without conceding a goal.

2) when a goal against is conceded in soccer, its not always and/or exlusively the fault of the central defender(s)  or

3) sometimes opponents and opposing players are also capable of good plays and making good plays to score goals.

[Free kick]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

It also has to be said, 2 goals the entire season is an extremely poor return for a DP striker. 

They will have tough decision to make regarding Altidore.  Working against him is his number of injuries and availability.  Akinolla has shown he can do the things you would expect from Altidore but the sample size is still small. But Is Akinola another Altidore or another Anthony Jackson Hamel?  I dont know.  Ideally one more year from Altidore (maybe at TAM instaed of DP) would be the best solution.   We also cant ignore the contributions he had in the last 4 years (cup winning goals, decisive goals in playoff matches allowing TFC to advance...etc).  So he has earned a recignition for this.

[Free kick]

Btw, i hate it that the edit feature option has disappeared from this forum. This sucks.

[Shway]

8 hours ago, Free kick said:

Btw, i hate it that the edit feature option has disappeared from this forum. This sucks.

It hasn’t, it’s in the top corner of a post.

@gator in case you need to know as well.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shway

[Shway]

10 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Thought Altidore’s contract was up ?

Yea...last year it was. He re-upped for 3 years. So he’s here till 2022. Only way he’s gone now if TFC terminate his contract.

https://www.torontofc.ca/post/2019/02/28/jozy-altidore-signs-contract-extension-toronto-fc

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shway

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, Shway said:

It hasn’t, it’s in the top corner of a post.

@gator in case you need to know as well.

I don't see the edit button anymore either.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it (obviously 😄)

My thoughts on a TFC rebuild:

While changes are probably coming, and quite frankly they are needed, I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. One thing that has made Toronto successful is continuity. That said, it is time to cut some dead weight.

I don't know the contract situations for most of these players, so bare with me..

Morrow - Time to move on, or keep him if you can get him on a reduced salary. He is 33 and injuries seem to have caught up with him. He is no longer an everyday starter, that's for sure.

Altidore - I don't know if or how they move him, but he's looking like an old 31 year old right now. Let's see how he recovers in the off season, but I am not optimistic, nor am I convinced him and Ayo can be paired in this team. It's much talked about, but how often have we seen it?

Ciman - Gone. Thank you for your service. Time to bring in Dunn and/or Rocco

Zavaletta - See above. As good as continuity is you cannot have it getting in the way of young players gaining experience in the team. At this point he doesn't play and he is just blocking the way for one of those two yonungsters.

Gonzalez - I am torn on this one. I agree with Shway that his lack of pace is a problem, and he is on a lot of money as well. At the same time, he brings a lot of experience and like I said at the top, you need continuity. I think you keep him and see how next season goes.

Mavinga - His speed is an asset, but he can be inconsistent and I get nervous that the best center back on this team is inconsistent. I am not saying ditch Mavinga, but I will say that TFC need to bring in someone else, possibly within the league. I would be okay with Ali offering +$1M dollars (if he can find it) for Aaron Long. 

Endoh - Move him on. 

Gallardo - Has to go, just didn't work out. Can't win them all.

Mullins - Move him on, bring in the kid back from his San Antonio loan

Piatti - I am perfectly okay with keeping this guy, but they should try and get him on a TAM and open up a DP spot.

Bono - I want to say move this guy on and get something in return, but who is the back up is Westburg goes down or loses form? He is 34 years old. Tougher call than most are making it in my opinion.

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Obinna

[Unnamed Trialist]

I know you have to show up for playoffs, but TFC getting knocked out, and Union, and Timbers, makes you feel the set-up is weak. One shot and you're out, all these leading sides have a bad day and the season is out the window. So what is the point again of having a great season?

Don't want to sound snarky but it devalues the whole league, IMO.

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I don't see the edit button anymore either.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it (obviously 😄)

My thoughts on a TFC rebuild:

While changes are probably coming, and quite frankly they are needed, I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. One thing that has made Toronto successful is continuity. That said, it is time to cut some dead weight.

I don't know the contract situations for most of these players, so bare with me..

Morrow - Time to move on, or keep him if you can get him on a reduced salary. He is 33 and injuries seem to have caught up with him. He is no longer an everyday starter, that's for sure.

Altidore - I don't know if or how they move him, but he's looking like an old 31 year old right now. Let's see how he recovers in the off season, but I am not optimistic, nor am I convinced him and Ayo can be paired in this team. It's much talked about, but how often have we seen it?

Ciman - Gone. Thank you for your service. Time to bring in Dunn and/or Rocco

Zavaletta - See above. As good as continuity is you cannot have it getting in the way of young players gaining experience in the team. At this point he doesn't play and he is just blocking the way for one of those two yonungsters.

Gonzalez - I am torn on this one. I agree with Shway that his lack of pace is a problem, and he is on a lot of money as well. At the same time, he brings a lot of experience and like I said at the top, you need continuity. I think you keep him and see how next season goes.

Mavinga - His speed is an asset, but he can be inconsistent and I get nervous that the best center back on this team is inconsistent. I am not saying ditch Mavinga, but I will say that TFC need to bring in someone else, possibly within the league. I would be okay with Ali offering +$1M dollars (if he can find it) for Aaron Long. 

Endoh - Move him on. 

Gallardo - Has to go, just didn't work out. Can't win them all.

Mullins - Move him on, bring in the kid back from his San Antonio loan

Piatti - I am perfectly okay with keeping this guy, but they should try and get him on a TAM and open up a DP spot.

Bono - I want to say move this guy on and get something in return, but who is the back up is Westburg goes down or loses form? He is 34 years old. Tougher call than most are making it in my opinion.

 

I have to thank guys like Obinna and Bearcat for saving me so much typing!  This post pretty much sums up my thoughts.  Although I didn't hear the interview, Josh Kloke was on the Fan in Toronto this morning and said, since TFC spends so much on their Academy, its time to cut loose the injury prone veterans and give those graduated players a chance to play.  I agree wholeheartedly.  Priso, Okello, Rutty, Dunn, Peruzza should all be regular rotation players next year or let them move on. 

[Bison44]

Did you really have a good season if you cant beat a mid level team at home when the pressure is on??  If at the end of the season Barca cant beat Getafe or Betis at home at home...do they really deserve to be champs??  Philly has been overhyped all season, TFC has played like crap for the last 2 months, it doesnt bother me a bit if they stumble and another team advances. 

How often does a undeserving team win the MLS cup?  The playoffs expose the pretenders.  

[Free kick]

11 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know you have to show up for playoffs, but TFC getting knocked out, and Union, and Timbers, makes you feel the set-up is weak. One shot and you're out, all these leading sides have a bad day and the season is out the window. So what is the point again of having a great season?

Don't want to sound snarky but it devalues the whole league, IMO.

Absolutely.  Been thinking this from the first day that they announced this format.   Someone might be tempted to bring up that the world cup finals are like this after the group stage.  But these people might not be aware that it wasnt always like that,  there use to be another group stage.   And since the FIFA change, all we have had is good soccer games during the group phase and totally crappy matches starting from the round of sixteen.   Scoring in the round of 16 matches is way way down from what you see in the group stage. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Free kick

[Ed_S]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I know you have to show up for playoffs, but TFC getting knocked out, and Union, and Timbers, makes you feel the set-up is weak. One shot and you're out, all these leading sides have a bad day and the season is out the window. So what is the point again of having a great season?

Don't want to sound snarky but it devalues the whole league, IMO.

Seattle and Minnesota roll along. The old goat Bruce Arena knows how to get a team up in the playoffs. Vanney? Bradley Altidore Gonzales didn't show up. I quite enjoyed that. Kristan Jack picked Mavinga as MLS defender of the year a few weeks ago lol.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Ed_S

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Did you really have a good season if you cant beat a mid level team at home when the pressure is on??  If at the end of the season Barca cant beat Getafe or Betis at home at home...do they really deserve to be champs??  Philly has been overhyped all season, TFC has played like crap for the last 2 months, it doesnt bother me a bit if they stumble and another team advances. 

How often does a undeserving team win the MLS cup?  The playoffs expose the pretenders.  

They weren’t really at home for this match though. At best it was a neutral site. If they allowed fans in the stadium no doubt more Nashville supporters would have shown up making it a road game (since the border is closed to Canadians). TFC likely win if the match is in Toronto for a number of reasons, including less travel back and forth from the US and mental fatigue from being away from home all the time 

[Dominic94]

Agree with the take on the academy, if LAFC can start a 16 year old in the playoffs why can’t Rutty make the bench ? He is literally considered the best NA 04 and Vanney won’t play him ?

 

at a point their academy will lose kids because they don’t play them.

[Shway]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I don't see the edit button anymore either.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it (obviously 😄)

My thoughts on a TFC rebuild:

While changes are probably coming, and quite frankly they are needed, I don't think we want to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. One thing that has made Toronto successful is continuity. That said, it is time to cut some dead weight.

I don't know the contract situations for most of these players, so bare with me..

Morrow - Time to move on, or keep him if you can get him on a reduced salary. He is 33 and injuries seem to have caught up with him. He is no longer an everyday starter, that's for sure.

Altidore - I don't know if or how they move him, but he's looking like an old 31 year old right now. Let's see how he recovers in the off season, but I am not optimistic, nor am I convinced him and Ayo can be paired in this team. It's much talked about, but how often have we seen it?

Ciman - Gone. Thank you for your service. Time to bring in Dunn and/or Rocco

Zavaletta - See above. As good as continuity is you cannot have it getting in the way of young players gaining experience in the team. At this point he doesn't play and he is just blocking the way for one of those two yonungsters.

Gonzalez - I am torn on this one. I agree with Shway that his lack of pace is a problem, and he is on a lot of money as well. At the same time, he brings a lot of experience and like I said at the top, you need continuity. I think you keep him and see how next season goes.

Mavinga - His speed is an asset, but he can be inconsistent and I get nervous that the best center back on this team is inconsistent. I am not saying ditch Mavinga, but I will say that TFC need to bring in someone else, possibly within the league. I would be okay with Ali offering +$1M dollars (if he can find it) for Aaron Long. 

Endoh - Move him on. 

Gallardo - Has to go, just didn't work out. Can't win them all.

Mullins - Move him on, bring in the kid back from his San Antonio loan

Piatti - I am perfectly okay with keeping this guy, but they should try and get him on a TAM and open up a DP spot.

Bono - I want to say move this guy on and get something in return, but who is the back up is Westburg goes down or loses form? He is 34 years old. Tougher call than most are making it in my opinion.

 

Agree with a lot. 

I don't know if it's misunderstand but when you say "move on" for a lot of these guys to get something in return isn't possible when majority are free agents. Bono, Mullins, Zavaleta, and  Morrow are all legit free to do as they please. 

 

Quote

Eligible players are 24 years of age and older with five MLS service years and are out of contract or have had their option declined. This allows players the freedom to negotiate a new contract with any MLS club, including their previous team, subject to certain restrictions.

 

[gator]

I think it was Caldwell last night who mentioned Vanney having both his nephew and Ciman on the bench while not including Nelson in the squad, that is poor management as far as I am concerned, yes you need a spare CB, Nelson running at tired defenders probably would have been a nice option though!

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Did you really have a good season if you cant beat a mid level team at home when the pressure is on??  If at the end of the season Barca cant beat Getafe or Betis at home at home...do they really deserve to be champs??  Philly has been overhyped all season, TFC has played like crap for the last 2 months, it doesnt bother me a bit if they stumble and another team advances. 

How often does a undeserving team win the MLS cup?  The playoffs expose the pretenders.  

In a 38-game season, by all means, definitely. Two years ago Betis killed us at home in the greatest performance of a visiting team in years, and we just stood up and applauded them. They were amazing. Then we won the league. It makes perfect sense, because a league is a complex narrative in the standard format, there's a unique story line every time any team is at the top of a table after 9 months. 

I also remember losing leagues basically because of dumb losses to weak teams, when Ronaldo Nazario de Lima was with us we lost a league by not beating the worst team, Hercules, twice. So that we deserved. 

But neither is at all comparable to the MLS playoffs. It's a crap shoot, in a relatively balanced league to begin with, it means so little. I mean, this thread, all these rebuilding posts. Really, we are in full rebuild mode the day after a #2 ranked season and a loss by a goal?

Apart from the Sounders who I hate but did what they had to do, the only result I think made sense was Colorado losing, because a team that does not even play all the games does not deserve to go forward. And maybe the Loons and SKC, maybe the only two fully honest what-you-see-is-what-you-get teams in MLS.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Hate this forum set up too...

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[rkomar]

My take on Vanney is that he absolutely hates bad passes straight to an opponent that immediately get turned in the opposite direction and result in a decent scoring attempt against them.  He hates them so badly it's hard to make him change his mind about you if you commit a few of those.  His favoured players don't commit that sin very often, so they have his trust.  The guys on the bench seem to make those passes more often, even with their reduced playing times.  Priso and Fraser made a few of those passes last night.  If they want to be starters, they're going to have to cut that nonsense out.  You can rubbish Endoh and Mullins and Deleon and Auro Jr. and ... for lots of things, but you don't see them make those dangerous passes very often.

[Bison44]

Lets face it, they were bad the last 2 months.  They were worse with Bradley and Altidore than they were without them.  They ended the season playing like the 7 seed and not the 2, so they got what they deserved.  Nashville was full value for the win.  I think alot of us thought they would eek out a win or two, because they have been able to bring up their level for the playoffs previous years.  They were healthy (only missing Delgado), rested and should have been prepared for Nashville.  They werent, and Bradley trotted out the same group that had been getting poor results...and he got more of the same last night.   Getting magic out of Poz or Lareya isnt a game plan, or at least not one that the average fan couldnt trot out and it wont work all the time The real sparks for the team this year were Poz, Lareya and Akinola.  Lareya was out of position and Akinola was on the bench.  

[Ansem]

More for young players who are Canadians...  straight from the mouth of the man... cab we stop this "team America" bs?

 

[El Hombre]

12 hours ago, Ansem said:

More for young players who are Canadians...  straight from the mouth of the man... cab we stop this "team America" bs?

 

I don't understand your comment.  If anything, this reinforces the "Team America" idea.  Unless I'm misinterpreting what you are saying.