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2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

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11 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I think you will find a lot of people here do not accept the 3 MLS clubs getting a bye ahead of other CPL teams and I think they have an argument. If your argument is that MLS clubs are better and should start later then they will be awarded by being better in the competition and getting better starting positions.

My argument is that they play more matches and have greater fixture congestion worries. Especially the team that is in the CCL.

We can't lie to ourselves that there is not a league hierarchy.

We also don't want the better teams pummeling the lower league teams all the time.

How many other nations use a coefficient system to seed their domestic Cup? My guess is barely any. Most nations seed based on the previous domestic season, with provisions for teams involved in Continental Cups.

Edited by narduch

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@Unnamed Trialist

You're right the CSA should do everything they can to lift the prestige of the V Cup. Elevating the importance of the Voyageurs Cup would help satiate the appetite for playoffs within the CPL season.  Cup competitions are essentially playoffs but unless the teams and fans want that cup as much as the league title the competition will be seen as a nuisance.  I'd love to see many of your ideas implemented, bye to the semi-finals is a joke. 

From what I've heard in the past though was that the the CSA has wanted to expand the tournament but L1O and PLSQ weren't interested in having more entries as clubs didn't want to take on the additional costs.  

Prestige and integrity of the tournament will come from more quality performances from CPL clubs.  CPL expansion to expand the tournament, upsets over MLS clubs, and hopefully lifting the V Cup. 

As @Ruffian pointed out there has been long conversation about when CPL and MLS clubs enter the competition, the unique situation that Canada finds itself in lends itself to finding unique solutions.  The point system proposed could do with some tweaking but it is a good solution to the debates had here on these forums.  

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So Toronto FC are suddenly in the 'Leagues Cup'...a competition between MLS and Mexican teams.  

Round of 16 one leg games this summer.  8 MLS and 8 Mexican league teams.  MLS host all the games when possible.

OK so only conflict is the final of that tourney is September 16th which is the midweek of the Canadian Championship/Voyageurs Cup Final 1st leg.  

Could happen as MLS teams will play nothing but home games in this tourney and TFC also has been a finalist in the Canadian Championship every year since 2015.   

 

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The Leagues Cup BS tournament is an argument against giving MLS teams preferential treatment due to fixture congestion. If they can accommodate that meaningless cash grab, then they can accommodate some Voyageurs Cup games.

The semi finalists get a bye solution is all well and good this year, but the number of teams can change, and @Unnamed Trialist coefficient system is more malleable to be able to handle any number of teams.

And the comment about their being a hierarchy, the coefficient system keeps the MLS teams honest and also reacts to any changes over time, for example if the gap between MLS and CPL teams (or between CPL and lower level leagues) is reduced or even flipped one day you aren’t left with some archaic rule giving MLS teams a bye just because.

And for anyone worried about blowouts, let’s worry about that if/when it becomes a problem. MLS teams failed to beat CPL teams by 2 goals I believe in any game last year, and the D3 teams I think did similarly well against CPL teams.

Edited by Kent

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Kurt Larson tweeted that Ottawa is likely to play Masters in a play-in game. Meaning the rest of the tournament format would stay the same.

So I guess the winner would take on York9.

I was kind of hoping to get TFC v. York9 but that may be in doubt now if Atletico Ottawa can get their **** together.

Edited by narduch

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If there was a play-in game, I assumed it would be against Blainville (2 hours) vs Masters (5 hours). Would also help Blainville if they lose to Ottawa of having the expense of going to Halifax.

Also better for the fans, last year I went from Ottawa to see the York9/Blainville game, Unlikely i will go to Toronto for a midweek game.  I'm sure a more Blainville fans will make it to Ottawa then Halifax.

Edited by MM3/MM2/MM

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

And for anyone worried about blowouts, let’s worry about that if/when it becomes a problem. MLS teams failed to beat CPL teams by 2 goals I believe in any game last year, and the D3 teams I think did similarly well against CPL teams.

Was on the subway when I posted this. I've confirmed it now.

Inter-league results from last year.

Blainville (PLSQ) vs York 9 (CPL). 0-0 draw, and 1-0 win for York 9. No blowouts.

Vaughan Azzuri (L1O) vs HFX Wanderers (CPL). 3-2 win for HFX and 1-0 win for Vaughan. No blowouts.

York 9 (CPL) vs Montreal (MLS). 2-2 draw, and 1-0 win for Montreal. No blowouts.

Cavalry (CPL) vs Vancouver (MLS). 0-0 draw, and 2-1 win for Cavalry. No blowouts.

HFX Wanderers (CPL) vs Ottawa Fury (USL). 3-2 win for Ottawa, and 2-2 draw. No blowouts.

Montreal (MLS) vs Cavalry (CPL). 2-1 win for Montreal, and 1-0 win for Montreal. No blowouts.

Ottawa Fury (USL) vs Toronto (MLS). 2-0 win for Toronto, and 3-0 win for Toronto. 2 multi goal wins, and over 2 legs it was a blowout, but even a 3-0 win isn't a problematically large blowout that we need to be scared of.

So 5 positive results for the *lower league teams out of 12 matches (6 out of 14 if you think USL > CPL or vice versa), only 2 multi goal losses, and I don't think any that were big enough that would be considered a problem that needs fixing.

*Assuming MLS > CPL/USL > PLSQ/L1O

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1 hour ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

If there was a play-in game, I assumed it would be against Blainville (2 hours) vs Masters (5 hours). Would also help Blainville if they lose to Ottawa of having the expense of going to Halifax.

Also better for the fans, last year I went from Ottawa to see the York9/Blainville game, Unlikely i will go to Toronto for a midweek game.  I'm sure a more Blainville fans will make it to Ottawa then Halifax.

I would have expected Blainville vs Ottawa as well, but I'm guessing it may be an "entered competition for the first time this year" thing, whereas Blainville have been there since the PLSQ received a spot.

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I'm good with that.  Rough on the amateur side/sides but it is what it is.

Wouldn't be upset if all the expansion teams coming into the league these next few years had to travel a similar path for their 1st go at the Vs Cup.  Seed them appropriately in year 2.

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