2020 Voyageurs Cup Format

[gator]

This whole thing was a mess and it seems TFC are maybe getting something they don't deserve, I agree with @Ansem in his post but given Forge hasn't trained it would have been a shambles to play the match in the timeline suggested and yes an argument can be made that perhaps whatever that team in Montreal is called should be going to Mexico! I see some positives in this potentially for Forge as @longlugan outlined yesterday, a home match vs TFC, hopefully with some fans and avoiding a potentially franchise crushing result in Mexico if Forge were to advance! It still has a bit of a bad smell about it, it should not have got to this point and no one will convince me TFC didn't have more than their fair share of influence on this, we can only wonder what would have happened if TFC didn't have the covid issues!

[Watchmen]

32 minutes ago, Ansem said:

3-Outside of winning American league games, what have TFC actually won justifying them as Canada's representative?

The games were in a tournament style format only involving Canadian teams. The format is no more good or bad than the method used to get Forge to the final.

The 2020 Voyagers Cup should just be scrapped altogether.  Sending Montreal would be fine. I don't see any of the teams going in to Mexico and winning.

[DavemTFC]

On 3/9/2021 at 11:23 AM, Daniel said:

Wow, if we have to play our national cup final in another country... 🤦

I really hope this isn't what the CSA thought but it would explain a lot.

We're in a pandemic. Canadian MLS teams haven't been playing their home games in Canada. Nothing is normal. But a cup final played in the states is a hell of a lot closer to normal than none played at all because the CSA wanted to play it in March. Would you really be more embarassed by a game in Florida to decide who goes to CCL versus the situation we're at right now?

Kent's post pretty much sums up where I'm at wrt this news. Hugely disappointing. Hopefully the summer game is a fun event at least.

[DavemTFC]

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

3-Outside of winning American league games, what have TFC actually won justifying them as Canada's representative?

It was made clear the MLS games played in Canada were going to decide one half of the Vcup finalists. TFC/Impact/Caps knew full well they were playing for points and for a possible Vcup/CCL spot.

I agree they haven't exactly earned their CCL spot with this game being canceled but imo they're more justified than the Impact at least, who I guarantee btw would have had absolutely zero plans to compete in the CCL this year anyway

And yes I realize my bias. I don't think I'm being unfair but make of that what you will

[Ansem]

13 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The games were in a tournament style format only involving Canadian teams. The format is no more good or bad than the method used to get Forge to the final.

They won the right to play the final later in 2021 - not the right to go to CCL in 2021.

So this means that the final later this year will most likely be for 2022 CCL - that's 2 GIFTS in a row. THis can only happen so many time before people starts asking questions.

The whole thing is comical - this is Canada after all.

[Watchmen]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They won the right to play the final later in 2021 - not the right to go to CCL in 2021.

So this means that the final later this year will most likely be for 2022 CCL - that's 2 GIFTS in a row. THis can only happen so many time before people starts asking questions.

The whole thing is comical - this is Canada after all.

I have more of a problem with the game potentially being used for the 2022 CCL. And I said, sending Montreal to 2021 would be fine. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Watchmen

[toontownman]

Does anyone think during the MLS season (when this games is rearranged for) TFC will a) send the strongest team and b) give a shit either way. Bragging rights means more to forge fans than anyone else. Cavs already beat the Whitecaps so they wouldnt be the first.

Is there any chance of the V-Cup happening as normal this year? If not maybe they can have just 4 team play in finals 2 CPL and 2 MLS. The winner of the rearranged Vcup final gets straight in and home advantage or something. The it's the highest ranked/finish teams otherwise. A full tournament might not be likely but 3 games can surely be organized even if its in a host city. Cough *regina* use the roughriders stadium

[Markoaleks]

Forge and TFC SSH for both teams 

Went with my son to Calgary to watch 2019 CPL champ game #foreverfirst 

One of my best sports experiences ever was MLS Cup beating Seattle at BMO. Jozy was onside and TFC should have won 3 MLS cups v Seattle 

So my 905 fandom for both teams is equal - call me the Switzerland between both clubs 😀

That said, this is so underwhelming outcome -will end in a Forge v TFC 2 friendly that hopefully draws well and the caretaker BY can make some money back - nothing more and nothing less is the outcome 

[spinrack]

The whole process of the 2020 Canadian Championship has been bungled so badly that, in my opinion, the Voyageurs need to make a stand and disassociate ourselves from it.
I am not familiar with our current agreement with the CSA, but as owners of the Voyageurs Cup, I think we need to consider refusing to award the Cup for 2020.

Edited March 11, 2021 by spinrack

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Does anyone think during the MLS season (when this games is rearranged for) TFC will a) send the strongest team and b) give a shit either way. 

They probably will when this game ends up being the qualifier for the 2022 rep.

[Ansem]

I'd like to point out that the Americans did it right!

They cancelled the US Open Cup and awarded the CCL berth to Atlanta United - the reigning 2019 US Cup winners...

 

But hey this is Canada -  and I'm not sure why the CSA went to that extend to make this more complicated than it needed to be and get all this backlash but CF Montreal on the premises that they are technically STILL the V Cup champs would have been accepted by way more people

Except Duane and TFC Apologists

TFC not exercising some kind of "pressure" at the CSA is f'n NAIVE at this point.

And I'm not even being pro CPL on this.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Except Duane and TFC Apologists

I think Duane would be fine with the logic of Montreal going, if it had been announced as such. I'm not scouring the internet, but that second group seems to be a group you've created, as most people here seem to pretty reasonable with the Montreal option if it had happened. 

24 minutes ago, Ansem said:

TFC not exercising some kind of "pressure" at the CSA is f'n NAIVE at this point.

Literally every group that can applies pressure when they're able to. It's not a coincidence that Forge hosted the first CPL game ever, or that they got a bizarre bye in their first Voyagers Cup. Let's not be naive in thinking they're not trying to do the same thing.

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

that second group seems to be a group you've created, as most people here seem to pretty reasonable with the Montreal option if it had happened. 

Twitter not here lol

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Literally every group that can applies pressure when they're able to. It's not a coincidence that Forge hosted the first CPL game ever, or that they got a bizarre bye in their first Voyagers Cup. Let's not be naive in thinking they're not trying to do the same thing.

Fair - so I'll rest my case at "undeserved"

[Watchmen]

43 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Twitter not here lol

I mean, if you went to Twitter and expected a rational response, that's on you. 😜

 

[Kent]

Now I am already dreading what happens if Forge wins the 2020 Voyageurs Cup, and someone else wins the 2021 edition (not TFC either, or else they could just trade spots and Forge could go to CCL in 2022). This feels a lot like this situation is continuing, where we have the CSA hoping for an ideal result that they can then use to make an easy decision. Like if Forge had qualified for CCL via CONCACAF League they probably would have given TFC the CCL spot and cancelled the 2020 Voyageurs Cup. Now they will be hoping TFC win so that there is a "no harm no foul" situation, retroactively.

Can you imagine if a CPL team officiallly wins the Voyageurs Cup, but doesn't get a CCL spot out of it? Let's say Forge win 2020 in July, Cavalry wins 2021 in September, and York wins the CPL championship (I can dream can't I?). Who represents Canada in CONCACAF competitions?

[Ansem]

 

[nfitz]

6 hours ago, spinrack said:

The whole process of the 2020 Canadian Championship has been bungled so badly that, in my opinion, the Voyageurs need to make a stand and disassociate ourselves from it.
I am not familiar with our current agreement with the CSA, but as owners of the Voyageurs Cup, I think we need to consider refusing to award the Cup for 2020.

The time for that discussion was months ago, before the process was announced.

It's 2021 that should be discussed now.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

Look, here he is saying that if they'd decided on Montreal it would have been fine:

Now please, stop making me defend Rollins.  I don't like it anymore than anyone else.

[Cblake]

According to Toronto Public Health, TFC's Covid 19 outbreak is now at 9 cases. 

https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/covid-19-latest-city-of-toronto-news/covid-19-status-of-cases-in-toronto/

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls/toronto-fc-covid-19-camp-1.5948358

[dnina10]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:26 AM, Watchmen said:

Look, here he is saying that if they'd decided on Montreal it would have been fine:

Now please, stop making me defend Rollins.  I don't like it anymore than anyone else.

Since when have we stooped to the level of the Americans to which we give our spot to last season's champions? Ridiculous. What's next, are we going to give it to the most successful club in Canadian club football history just because they're the most successful?

I refer to the Americans because they awarded a CCL spot to Atlanta who won the US Open Cup in 2019 (remember it wasn't played last year) instead of to Sporting Kansas City, the Western Conference Champions. That was even more of an abomination than Rollins' wonderful suggestion. Come on people, such an idea is a farce

[Watchmen]

38 minutes ago, dnina10 said:

Since when have we stooped to the level of the Americans to which we give our spot to last season's champions? Ridiculous. What's next, are we going to give it to the most successful club in Canadian club football history just because they're the most successful?

I refer to the Americans because they awarded a CCL spot to Atlanta who won the US Open Cup in 2019 (remember it wasn't played last year) instead of to Sporting Kansas City, the Western Conference Champions. That was even more of an abomination than Rollins' wonderful suggestion. Come on people, such an idea is a farce

Rollins didn't suggest it.  It was proposed to him, and he merely said that would have been fine.  It is no better or worse of an idea than holding a game 3 months after either team has played and with one team having not trained at all.  There were no good options here.  

In terms of awarding the spot to "the most successful club in Canadian club history", I prefer it when the CSA awards a spot to Canada's LEAST successful club in Voyagers Cup history.  Yes, nothing like watching the Whitecaps play in the Champions League before ever winning a Voyagers Cup.

[nfitz]

21 hours ago, Watchmen said:

In terms of awarding the spot to "the most successful club in Canadian club history", I prefer it when the CSA awards a spot to Canada's LEAST successful club in Voyagers Cup history.  Yes, nothing like watching the Whitecaps play in the Champions League before ever winning a Voyagers Cup.

Vancouver won their first Voyageurs Cup in August 2015. 

They made their first Champions League appearance in August 2015. Okay, a few days before they actually won the cup. But you can't argue that they weren't the best Canadian team when they appeared.

I thought the least successful team in Voyageurs Cup history was a tie between Valour FC and Pacific FC, who have lost all their games.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, nfitz said:

Vancouver won their first Voyageurs Cup in August 2015. 

They made their first Champions League appearance in August 2015. Okay, a few days before they actually won the cup. But you can't argue that they weren't the best Canadian team when they appeared.

I thought the least successful team in Voyageurs Cup history was a tie between Valour FC and Pacific FC, who have lost all their games.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/joke

They were awarded the CCL spot having never won the Voyagers Cup.  And sure, I guess Valour and Pacific didn't exist in 2015 so that would make them even more unsuccessful than the Whitecaps at that point in time.  Congratulations, you win.

[nfitz]

5 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/joke

They were awarded the CCL spot having never won the Voyagers Cup.  And sure, I guess Valour and Pacific didn't exist in 2015 so that would make them even more unsuccessful than the Whitecaps at that point in time.  Congratulations, you win.

Who knows what's a joke anymore, with suggestions that Montreal should have gone to the Champions League instead!

[Ansem]

Ridiculous