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York9 - Season Thread 2020

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On 3/8/2020 at 8:54 AM, Macksam said:

I have to agree with Ams1984. The moment I saw the political buzzwords of inclusive and identify, my face went¬†ūüėĄ.

How is identify a political buzzword? Surely the gender that one identifies as, has nothing to do with whether one votes PC or NDP.

And inclusive ... how is this political?

 

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Good to see the forums are back, I thought the debate and the discourse were tough but necessary, considering the political climate these days, the inherent political nature of soccer, and because it's very much a real issue that will be apparent in the supporters section. I thought I learned a thing or two yesterday, and I hope the gap can continue to be bridged, and if not, at least understood by the different sides.

Seems the thread had calmed down if anything. I think being a mod is an incredibly tough and thankless job, so a big thanks to you Rintaran for doing so, and hope you do whatever makes you happy. I'm a supporter of NSXI as well, I'm sure many of us are, so keep up that great work as well. I do think what Trialist said wasn't probably what you thought it meant though, I think he meant it as a threat that he will make this debate more public, as opposed to actually threatening you personally whatsoever. I mean, we are all keyboard warrior-ring it up in here lol. I would also think that most people here would agree that making personal DMs public isn't the best practice either, some things are meant to be kept personal and private between people, and I'd hope the two of you can personally hash things out.

Just wanted to end on a positive note, share a good thing that came out of this whole debate. On the Y9 Discord, one of the female Y9 supporters shared yesterday afternoon, after she heard about and read through this thread, that she was a passionate Y9 supporter, but was uncomfortable with some of the homophobic language she heard from one or two supporters in the section. Later that day, she happily shared that one of the Gen IX capos read her message, and reached out to her by IG, and apologized on behalf of the group, and promised it's not something that would tolerate, and to bring it to their attention if it happened again. She felt quite thankful for that response.

I know that these conversations often happen online rather than offline, because it's quite a difficult and tough conversation to have in person. I've seen it happen before for weeks in a FB group for Ottawa supporters a few years ago, which is why I felt it was important not to shy away from this conversation for Y9 this week. I hope people continue to keep an open mind to all the people and ideas and topics they come across as we all support the CPL.

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5 hours ago, vancanman said:

I'd read there'd been a brief tempest, but I hope it's blown over now.

On the plus side, the leak in my roof seems to have been sealed... 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

 

I'll clarify. Race is a social construct, but its continued resonance through histories of marginalization and systemic racism makes it a reality in our society. Unless you want to deny colonialization, slavery, indentured servitude and its continued relevance in the form of income disparities, disproportionate incarceration, etc., it's clear that race, despite its lack of groundings in biological differences, carry social weight.

Pointing out that people in our society are arbitrarily categorized and face differential treatment, thus necessitating the need for policies and practices to ensure inclusion, is not akin to doing the categorization. This of course applies to gender and sexuality (to bring it back to where this conversation began). And guess what, calling out discrimination is a good first step to ensuring that people confronted with discrimination feel comfortable participating in certain spaces. I know as a racialized supporter myself, I haven't always felt welcome Canadian football spaces, and this type of discussion right now doesn't help. I am just thankful that most people here recognize the need to address these issues in the sport.



Edit: Re-reading my initial post and the response, I wonder if there might be confusion about what I meant. From my recollection, though a mod has contested it, @Unnamed Trialist was banned after a discussion where he had complained that football fandom spaces seem to be predominantly white, and that non-white fans don't always feel welcome in the space. Macksam then suggested that this complaint was 'bigotry against white people'. I am saying that Macksam's response is groundless. As groundless as suggestions that anti-racism efforts are themselves 'reverse racism'.

1) The issue is that counter arguments can be made for all your indirect evidence like income inequality and the like. I come from a minority community that has thrived politically and economically over the last 40 years without any extra help so I am of opinion we don't need policies and practices for any of those things.

2) Sure, if you actually had evidence discrimination took place which for the most part you and people like you, such as UT never do. It's almost always a disingenuous attack on someone or some group based on what you perceive rather than what the situation actually is. See point 4 below as an example of what I mean.

3) I'm Punjabi, Sikh and I have never felt unwelcome in any soccer space. 

4) UT took issue with a video of a group of Norwich fans and said it was a bad example as there were too many white men. It was disingenuous because he made the assumption that these fans actively discriminate against people of colour to ensure that only white guys attend the match, which is foolish to assume. Look at a club like Arsenal or Chelsea and you will see plenty of minorities in the stands. It may just be that Norwich fans are predominantly white, which wouldn't be unfounded if the area the club is in is mostly resided by white people.

5) I don't believe in the term reverse racism. Racism is racism and yes, you can be racist towards white people. 

People don't see race these days. All you have to do is carry yourself well, workout, maintain good hygiene, know how to carry a conversation, be a little charming and people will forget all about what you look like within 5 minutes of meeting you.

 

Edited by Macksam

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Let me just say that I am offended by the arguments being made about me on this thread by Rintaran, I consider them slanderous and patently false.

A person who in a calm and reasoned way explained how racism may work, and how someone who might identify as non-white (racialised is the term used) may at times feel uncomfortable in certain soccer supporter ambiences, is then accused of being a racist.

You accused me of racist and sexist positing in your private message to Rintaran, which is more evidence of you being disingenuous. Please cite where I have ever been those things? I consider what you said about me to be slanderous and patently false. 

As for the bolded, I calmly explained how racism might not be at play here but you still accuse me of some horrible things which are not true. Is that not appalling? 

Edited by Macksam

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34 minutes ago, Macksam said:

3) I'm Punjabi, Sikh and I have never felt unwelcome in any soccer space.

This is good, but I would suggest that your personal experiences may not speak to the whole. Canada is obviously not the worst place for this kind of thing, but you can see example after example after example of instances of racism in European football. In Canada it tends to mostly take place in hockey and is more directed towards Indigenous peoples, but there is still a **** ton of racism here.

38 minutes ago, Macksam said:

People don't see race these days. All you have to do is carry yourself well, workout, maintain good hygiene, know how to carry a conversation, be a little charming and people will forget all about what you look like within 5 minutes of meeting you.

Tell that to the women who have to choose between wearing a hijab or having a job in Quebec. Tell that to those fear mongering about refugees from the Middle East. Tell that to east Asian people being viewed as carriers of the coronavirus. Tell that to Senator Lynn Beyak who published racist letters about Indigenous people on her website.  Tell that to people who still regularly hear slurs directed towards them (such as the first four letters of the nation of Pakistan, which was an especially commonly used insult when I was growing up). Tell that to my Arab partner who gets pulled aside for "random" screening every ******* time.

You might personally be lucky and have somehow avoided racism being directed towards you, but that does not seem to match up to the lived experience of many other minority groups.

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1 hour ago, Macksam said:

People don't see race these days. All you have to do is carry yourself well, workout, maintain good hygiene, know how to carry a conversation, be a little charming and people will forget all about what you look like within 5 minutes of meeting you.

Imagine being this confident about being so naive. 

This convo is over. Post about York9 in here or don’t post at all.

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24 minutes ago, Viruk42 said:

This is good, but I would suggest that your personal experiences may not speak to the whole. Canada is obviously not the worst place for this kind of thing, but you can see example after example after example of instances of racism in European football. In Canada it tends to mostly take place in hockey and is more directed towards Indigenous peoples, but there is still a **** ton of racism here.

Tell that to the women who have to choose between wearing a hijab or having a job in Quebec. Tell that to those fear mongering about refugees from the Middle East. Tell that to east Asian people being viewed as carriers of the coronavirus. Tell that to Senator Lynn Beyak who published racist letters about Indigenous people on her website.  Tell that to people who still regularly hear slurs directed towards them (such as the first four letters of the nation of Pakistan, which was an especially commonly used insult when I was growing up). Tell that to my Arab partner who gets pulled aside for "random" screening every ******* time.

You might personally be lucky and have somehow avoided racism being directed towards you, but that does not seem to match up to the lived experience of many other minority groups.

People that act like ****** human beings don't have much going on with their lives in the first place. 

Just ignore them and move on with your day. 

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Posted (edited)

So we have a white guy now calling a minority a white supremacist.  This, together with the virtue signalling supporters group, just about sums up the whackiness you get from the far left these days.  What's next?  Robbie Rogers is a homophobe?  

I do like @Unnamed Trialist 's posts when they are on topic but the need to infuse every discussion with some sort of left-wing conspiracy spin is tiring, if not comical.  I had no idea he was threatening mods, the site in general and calling for bans - that is quite simply fascist behaviour.  

Edited by CanadaFan123

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Just now, CanadaFan123 said:

So we have a white guy now calling a minority a white supremacist.  This, together with the virtue signalling supporters group, just about sums up the whackiness you get from the far left these days.  What's next?  Robbie Rogers is a homophobe?  

I do like @Unnamed Trialist 's posts when they are on topic but the need to infuse every discussion with some sort of left-wing conspiracy spin is tiring, if not comical.  

I feel like even though lots of us disagree on the issues, for the most part our interactions are civilized and productive... except UT. This is why I blocked him ages ago. His go to is personal attacks and denigration. 

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People, we all see race and gender, let's stop kidding ourselves with this rhetoric that we don't see race or gender anymore because it's 2020.

That said, the word racist and sexist gets used too easily. To be a racist or a sexist is to discriminate based on race or gender. To simply acknowledge or to see race or gender is not racist or sexist. You peeps on both sides are both taking these concepts too loosely.

Just keep in mind that any gaslighting from either sides is just very likely to lead to the re-closure of these forums, which honestly all things considered would be an awful shame. Let's chill, and be thankful we got a local CPL side to support in what is hopefully the last Canadian national soccer league this nation will have. Because we need to see Yorky come through in the year 2100 or whatever year it was he was born in, lol.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, RS said:

Imagine being this confident about being so naive. 

This convo is over. Post about York9 in here or don’t post at all.

It's my experience and that shapes how I view things. You haven't lived in my shoes. 

Edit: just saw the posts above. Alright, let's move on. 

Edited by Macksam

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1 hour ago, ironcub14 said:

I'm going to give my controversial Y9 take that I've never said before, just so people can jump on me on this topic instead ;)

My take is, there is no freaking way Morey Doner should have won Y9 PotY. That's got to be some online vote that his friends and family must have helped out.

Yes, Doner was a very very solid defensive player, one of the best defenders and tacklers we have for sure, he made his flank an island vs wingers at times. Doner Island.

But offensively, he was one of the worst among the starters we had. People seem to remember that one rocket volley he had, and he got a few assists off regular ass crosses, any fullback should get at least a couple.

But his technique, his dribbling, his crossing, etc, I've been watching Y9 replays offseason, about to watch another one tonight, and in my mind, there is zero way Doner should have won Y9 PotY.

I'd have given it to Luca or Ingham. They definitely had their share of errors mid-season, but overall, you could tell those two were the reason why our defense was so rock solid all year long. A shout to Telfer for his obvious super-talent, and Abzi for his overall skills.

How DARE you?! 
 

ha ha... Doner‚Äės¬†is a great story, but I agree that Ingham may have been more deserving.¬†

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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

So we have a white guy now calling a minority a white supremacist.  This, together with the virtue signalling supporters group, just about sums up the whackiness you get from the far left these days.  What's next?  Robbie Rogers is a homophobe?  

I do like @Unnamed Trialist 's posts when they are on topic but the need to infuse every discussion with some sort of left-wing conspiracy spin is tiring, if not comical.  I had no idea he was threatening mods, the site in general and calling for bans - that is quite simply fascist behaviour.  

No one in here is "far left." This high school-level of political understanding is embarrassing, has no place on this forum, and it's the reason this thread is now locked.

1 hour ago, Lofty said:

Take your own advice.

Says the guy who contributed to the conversation that got the forum temporarily shut down yesterday. 

This thread is now locked because too many in here cannot help themselves. @ironcub14's most recent post is a good place to start a new Y9 season thread, so let's do that.

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