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York9 - Season Thread 2020


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9 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I guess it's inherently going to be speculative at this stage. But based just on pedigree wonder if Brian Lopez slots in over Murofushi (as much as I love Wataru).

I do think it's a testament to the high standards of international signings that I really have no clue who should start. Nicholas Hamilton is another one who has done so well in the Jamaican league, and whom I think can make an impact.

The backline though is probably where we can build more consensus around. As much as Arnone has done well with HFX, I really liked the Gasparotto Thompson partnership. Just hope Thompson can stay healthy. Fullbacks are a lock

Lopez and Hamilton are wildcards to me coming from a level below racing's reserve squad and the Jamaican league. They both could start. With petrasso being injury prone, Hamilton will get a shot at some point. 

I think vasconcelos is a lock to start at rw. Abzi,Luca, doner are locks. I guess Manny is as well. Outside of that there should be competition at the other positions outside of GK. 

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1 minute ago, SpursFlu said:

I your racial social construct is racism

What does that mean?

That the well established notion of race as a social construct is racism? To elaborate, we say it's a social construct as the genetic differences between so called different races carry no significance. Findings from the human genome project have indicated that genetic variations within supposed racial groups are far larger than presumed. A European person may well be closer in genetics to an Asian person than a fellow European for example.
 

This knowledge helps us break down the notion used centrally to justify racism - though of course it has since morphed into cultural notions of race, but that hasn't been brought up yet.

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Racism is the underlying issue and people aren't racist. It's a behavior and mindset. Change is the only constant in life and we all have the ability. Especially in the beautiful country of Canada. Made most beautiful by the beautiful people who comprise it

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1 hour ago, Lofty said:

It amuses me that those who sanctimoniously call others racist are the ones who most often try to divide us along racial lines! Their lack of self awareness is astonishing! 😂

Edit: Oh, and that is not a political statement. It is just "biological and social language". 😆

My internet cache is acting up, I'm just seeing this. This must be for both me and for YSG, since he brought up the topic about the Trialist's discussion on supporter sections, and since you bring up what I said about biological and social aspects for transsexuals and women in the Y9 SS. Though you most definitely haven't seen me call someone a racist here, so that better not be for myself. 

I'm kind of sick of both sides in this conversation, frankly. I'll sum my position up as briefly as possible, and then move on with my life. 

I'm frankly not really worried about the lack of women or visible minorities in the stands. It's each individual's choice to attend a live football match, and it's each individual's choice to sit or stand where they want to in the stadium. We can't force people to attend matches or come into the stands, and I've never seen anybody excluded from attending a match or coming into the stands in Canada on gender or racial grounds. So nope, not really worried about that issue there. 

That said, if we do have a new SG that seeks to provide an inclusive safe space or whatever you or they want to call it in the SS for those who identify as women, then that's a worthy cause for sure. Are some of you guys actually worried about reverse sexism or something? Lmfao. Or are you really that concerned about the language? It's literally biological and social variables that leads to some males to identify as females, that's what the language was referring to. It's not political whatsoever. The only thing political is the reverse sexism. Which if you are worried about then we got a whole bunch of dudes who are happy to laugh in your face lmfao. Are you saddened that you are a male who can't join a female SG? Bruh, the whole point of the word inclusive is that it includes those that are in the smallest minority, those are transsexuals, it's not for us dudes. We got Gen IX. We got the whole supporters section. Stop getting all worked up about the word "inclusive". And yep, we are all aware that women have the whole SS as well. If they want to form a group within it, that's all fine stuff. 

I'm in Y9 discussions on FB, Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and this forum, and this forum is the only one sensitive enough to get into a weekend-long discussion about the "political" language of the Dames lmao. I'd ask some of you to look for a balanced middle ground within this debate. 

Edited by ironcub14
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37 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

 

You should take the time to understand my point. Its very important. I'm sure your a good person and you should try and live a life free of rascism. I understand it's not easy but it's the future my friend 

I am trying to, and I think folks reading my posts can appreciate that it's a good faith engagement in trying to understand - but I can't help but think that comments like 'live a life free of racism' and 'it's the future my friend' is hardly good faith. I will gladly retract if I am misreading.

Folks on this board that know me in person know that much of my professional and community organizating background is in the area of anti-racism and migrant justice, whether in my teaching, writing, research. I've literally been swamped in these past 2-3 months responding to covid19 based racism, the amount of racist shit we've received at the Chinese Canadian National Council and the need to address the immediate consequences of mass layoffs. That's just some context about where I am coming from.

I mean if you think all this work = racism. Then I guess the conversation ends here. That's why I am sounding like a broken record here. But if you are trying to get at something else, I am all ears.


I also have no clue how an off hand comment I made at defending UT against unfair characterization and a general comment about how discrimination still exists in society and it'd be good to create inclusive spaces everywhere has devolved into this?

Edited by yellowsweatygorilla
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Just now, Bison44 said:

I love when i come to the board looking for the U-23 roster and I end up doing a deep dive in WIKIPEDIA reading up on social contructs, post moderism, parametric determinism and moral relativism.  Ah the things you miss out on.....

Ricci is in training camp with Valor...was he any good last year with y9?  

I don't think we saw enough of him to pass much judgment. All I know is he had a huge fan club come to games. The times he did play, he seemed to show flashes of skills but I don't remember him being productive at all. In terms of the players that left York, he wouldn't be at the top in terms of folks that I would think would get another shot in the league. I think Gogarty, Cox, Furlano, Zambasis for example have all shown so much more

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You sound good intentioned but at some point we need to elevate and think about our shared future. Please take the time to really think about what I said. I'll get off this thread because it's gotten too far from football but remember the only thing we can fully control are our own thoughts and behaviours 

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45 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Your racial social construct is racism. And rascist people always feel the need to spread racism. That's why it needs to be pointed out and stopped

You should take the time to understand my point. Its very important. I'm sure your a good person and you should try and live a life free of rascism. I understand it's not easy but it's the future my friend 

For the degree that this sort of posting is deliberate provocation and based on alt-right theories, this poster should be banned from the board. Mods?

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2 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I'm one of the few who think Luca is a tad overrated and Thompson is injury prone. I saw him play live in Halifax this year and he was really good. 

I think I am going crazy sometimes. I like Luca and I can't see anyone starting over him, but I do get a feeling that he is overrated. He's made mistakes at times.

At the same time, if Thompson hasn't had all these injuries, and been more visible as a result, I wonder if he'd be heralded a little more.

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3 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

I'm one of the few who think Luca is a tad overrated and Thompson is injury prone. I saw him play live in Halifax this year and he was really good. 

Cool, thanks. I’ll defend my man Luca to the end though! (Mainly because I bought a New Jersey with his name/number...)

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2 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

I like this lineup a lot. I’m especially excited to see what Ugarriza and Vasconcelos will add. Some of the Argie additions are more of an unknown commodity in my opinion, but I could see one of them challenging Murofushi at CM. The reason I see Vasconcelos and Ugarriza as more of a known commodity (despite never having seen either play) is that Vasconcelos was a Corinthians product and was then loaned out to regional clubs whilst Ugarriza played in the Peruvian top league fairly regularly.

Vasconcelos didn’t play for Corinthians’ senior side (I believe) but the simple fact of having been produced by their famed academy is worth something, and he has played frequently in lower Brazilian tiers. 
 

Anyways, I guess we’ll see!

I'm right there with you on Ugarriza and Vasconcelos.

1 hour ago, ironcub14 said:

To go back to Y9 for a second, the reason I enjoy reading but never do expected starting lineups before the season is that there are just way too many surprises and unknown variables and fierce competition for the spots.

Just to take one example, we started the 2019 season with Telfer and Porter as our wingbacks in a 5-3-2. We ended the 2019 season with Abzi and Doner solidly ingrained as our fullbacks in a 4-3-3, with Telfer as our main winger and Porter as one of our CMs. The team changed dramatically over the year.

It likely won't since this is the club's 2nd season obviously, but who knows how some of those competitions for the spots may end up coming out in preseason and over the regular season? Looking forward to the preseason fixtures for sure. Maybe we'll even get to watch them this time around. 

Hmm, you've seen through my feeble attempt to get our thread back on track.

If that happens again this year Y9 is in serious trouble.  Year 2 is a whole new ball game.  We know what the players are capable of, we know what the coach likes to play and the level of the competition.    

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Ricci is in training camp with Valor...was he any good last year with y9?  

Unlike Doner and Abzi, who made a similar jump last year, I don't think Ricci got enough consistent minutes last year to establish himself.  He's not a big strong CF so he was competing with Telfer and Gattas last year for minutes and we couldn't really afford to not have them on the pitch last year.  He made it ahead of Cox and Rollocks in the forward pecking order though.  

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3 minutes ago, Stouffvillain said:

 He made it ahead of Cox and Rollocks in the forward pecking order though.  

Did he though? Cox only sat out most of the season because a knee injury. He looked great when he did play. I am actually kinda sad if stories are true that Cox has been cut. If he can sort out his injuries, I definitely think he's a starter in our league.

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33 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

For the degree that this sort of posting is deliberate provocation and based on alt-right theories, this poster should be banned from the board. Mods?

Thank you for sending me the following DM:

Quote

Hello again

I don't know if you are following the York9 thread. It has blown up just because it has been reported a women supporter was working on an all-female supporters group. As this has evolved, a person and poster @yellowsweatygorilla,  who tried to explain how racism works, explaining in a very calm and reasoned way as a racialised person his experience, has been accused of being a racist. Totally unjustifiably. The person posting these disgusting provocative alt-right views is @Spurs Fan

This is the same garbage you rewarded @Macksam for by banning my with no justification for 3 months. 

@SpursFan should be warned and if necessary, banned. Macksam is in the same boat, your tolerance has not had any benefit in calming his racist and sexist views.

If the mods are not willing to react properly, not isolating those calling out racism and rewarding the white supremacists and extreme sexists who continue to push their fanatical agenda, there will be a next step outside this board.

You are being warned. We were very close to doing so a few months ago, but felt you were trying to show some concern. But the end result is that an apparent lack of interest and what appears to be a bias in favour of one particular position is putting the entire board at risk. And it will be your fault if in the end we have to move the Voyageurs/Canadian soccer.

I have not read this entire thread because the racists and fanatics I block are piling it on, and I am not intersested.

Yours

Jeffrey

 

You were banned for harassment, bullying, and threatening moderators & the voyageur's board.

I will, once again, warn you against harassing, bullying, and threatening moderators & the voyageur's board.

For clarification, your threat above is:

Quote

If the mods are not willing to react properly, not isolating those calling out racism and rewarding the white supremacists and extreme sexists who continue to push their fanatical agenda, there will be a next step outside this board.

You are being warned. We were very close to doing so a few months ago, but felt you were trying to show some concern. But the end result is that an apparent lack of interest and what appears to be a bias in favour of one particular position is putting the entire board at risk. And it will be your fault if in the end we have to move the Voyageurs/Canadian soccer.

I generally appreciate your posts on the board, and had hoped that we had moved beyond baseless insults and uttering threats. However, as you wish to drag this out, I'll go ahead and post this publicly myself.

 

 

As you clearly have no respect for me or my decisions, I am referring the decision on all warning & banning matters to @admin. I believe @jordan is another moderator who may be able to address your concern. There may be more out there. I don't really know. You'll have to ask them.

 

As a leftist, with a wife who is a visible minority, and two children who are clearly halfies, I have found many of the responses to the Dames of York announcement & the resulting racism spiral to be disgusting, on many levels, and the back & forth interpretations/misinterpretations of responses makes me sick.

I tried ending or redirecting the conversation, I tried explaining, but everything ends with another accusation, and cries of racism/sexism. When a loading error made some posts not visible, there were cries of censorship. So clearly, locking the thread or hiding the offending posts is not an appropriate response.

Just as the conversation seemed to close, you, @Unnamed Trialist, jumped in and antagonized it again, and then proceeded to issue threats, to me, via DM.

I've dropped writers from my own site, very publicly, for less than what has come out in that conversation, but, the voyageur's board isn't my site, I don't like warning or banning people unless absolutely necessary, and quite frankly, I never wanted to be a moderator anyways. I asked to be able to post articles to the site, and at some point, despite my objections someone made me a bloody mod.

I'm finished with that shit. Go harass another board, or another moderator, because I'm not here for you to threaten & insult any longer.

 

 

@admin and @jordan and any other moderator out there can address your threats themselves. Please stop shitting on Canadian Soccer and those trying to make it better.

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Let me just say that I am offended by the arguments being made about me on this thread by Rintaran, I consider them slanderous and patently false. I never insulted any moderator, nor did I ever act in a bullying way. In fact, after being unfairly banned for a post arguing that all white male supporter groups were not the model Canada should emulate, I remained silent for almost three months. Only after a PM to another admin was it possible for me to join the board again.

 I think it is best to stick to the facts and not make up things to justify what was clearly an error in moderating. I was first warned because I was accused, by people with a history of white supremacist and alt-right posting on this board, of being racist towards white people. I am white and male, as the few people on this board who know me can attest. Those protests should not have been given credence as a basis for warning me, but they were. That was a fundamental original error.

Since the issue was clearly an offense against me, I requested an explanation in a private message, in an offended tone, and was banned at that very moment, with no recourse.

Moderating a board has to be done with consistent criteria. You cannot ban a person without giving a proper explanation. You cannot do so on the basis of a personal message, with no recourse. You should not do so without consulting other administrators or moderators. You cannot use the banning to then spread lies about someone who cannot defend himself, being banned.

During this process, and since, I requested Rintaran to give me his real name, as I had mine, which he refused to do. There was no basis for a civilised discussion allowed. During this period I was also insulted by people on this board in a few posts, which was allowed, with no recourse to response. This is not an adequate basis for a properly run message board.

While the details about my three-month banning are probably not of interest to the majority of board members, the question of racist and sexist posting on this board just may. It is not a daily affair, perhaps not even weekly. Although certain people feel it is their right and run roughshod over the rest and it is part of their agenda; and they seem to be winning the day, as seen in this thread. A person who in a calm and reasoned way explained how racism may work, and how someone who might identify as non-white (racialised is the term used) may at times feel uncomfortable in certain soccer supporter ambiences, is then accused of being a racist. This posting is appalling and cannot be allowed. It is in clear violation of board rules, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and how the governing bodies of football conceive the sport, on and off the pitch. 

As I messaged about 20 long-time board members about this situation about two months ago, I know that there is a large contigent who have heard my opinion. As I expect to now be banned under another false accusation, I can only hope those reading this will understand if at some point the issues of racism and sexism on this board emerge elsewhere, beyond its threads, and beyond the skewed control of those who are supposed to be impartially monitoring it. 

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