York9 - Season Thread 2020

[y1y1y1]

45 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Sorry, that’s just not the case. 
 

When people choose to use political buzz words in the blurb about their group and it’s purpose, they’ve politicized it, not the people who later recognize and comment on their use of political buzz words. 

they're not really political words if we look at the tweet. they're incredibly common words, like inclusive, used for almost all communal and social environments, including by other sgs, and have been for ages. it probably isn't designed as a political statement of any type but rather one to get more people out there who might not otherwise go to games.

all they did was say we're a new fan group designed to be accommodating to people who might not feel comfortable, for whatever reason, with the current fan groups. you've taken it to possibly represent something wrong and worrying for political reasons.

in short the language is too general and common to really be political unless one looks for ways to read as such.

Edited March 8, 2020 by y1y1y1

[Stouffvillain]

I never been a part of a supports group that excluded women. RPB, U Sector and other TFC supporters groups always welcomed women, so have the V’s.  I’m not involved with GenIX or the Green Lions but I have never see anything they post say women supporters were rejected.  This seems very gimmicky. 

[y1y1y1]

10 minutes ago, Stouffvillain said:

I never been a part of a supports group that excluded women. RPB, U Sector and other TFC supporters groups always welcomed women, so have the V’s.  I’m not involved with GenIX or the Green Lions but I have never see anything they post say women supporters were rejected.  This seems very gimmicky. 

they haven't done anything wrong and i don't think this implies they have. it's just trying to create a women's focused group, which is fine. it's goal is to get people out to game and if it's gimmicky whatever, it's goal and existence are fine.

it's founding probably stems from its founders hoping to meet more women who enjoy professional soccer on campus than anything really political.

also would be totally shocked if any modern supporters group actively excluded women

Edited March 8, 2020 by y1y1y1

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 minutes ago, Stouffvillain said:

I never been a part of a supports group that excluded women. RPB, U Sector and other TFC supporters groups always welcomed women, so have the V’s....

Are the Inebriatti not a significant factor in Y9's vocal support? Maybe there's a bit of a wannabe Ultras angle going on that skews things more heavily male than is the case with RPB and U-Sector, who would last about 5 seconds if they were faced with a group of casuals in the UK back in the 1980s, which is a good thing before anyone takes umbrage at that. We obviously don't want anything like that anywhere near Canadian soccer.

[red card]

Reading the cpl.ca article, the lead organizer said they weren't too many women in the stands. She was the only woman in the supporters section and didn't feel included. 

Just because there is nothing outward about not welcoming women, it doesn't mean women will feel comfortable. There is nothing political about this. 

Anyway, I thought it was good move on her part. Not sure how successful she'll be. Good for Y9 to help out. I like this type of bottom up initatives with a light touch from the club rather than the over bearing top down marketing we often see from pro clubs in North America.

Edited March 8, 2020 by red card

[Ams1984]

1 minute ago, red card said:

Reading the cpl.ca article, the lead organizer said they weren't too many women in the stands. She was the only woman in the supporters section and didn't feel included. 

Just because there is nothing outward about not welcoming women, it doesn't mean women will feel comfortable. There is nothing political about this. 

Anyway, I thought it was good move on her part. Not sure how successful she'll be.

I hope she is successful. We need more fans (men, women, everybody!). The only issue I take with it is the use of political buzz words in their blurb. Specifically “inclusive” and “identify as”. 
 

I’ve got no problem with a group being called ‘dames of York 9’. It’s name and logo are enough to convey its purpose. They could’ve said something like ‘I was often the only woman in the ultras section, so I wanted to create a group to attract more women to the stands’. My reaction would’ve then been entirely positive. But the inclusion of political new-speak sends a very political message. There is no need for it unless your purpose is political. 

[Macksam]

I saw this on the group's Insta story:

I think I may be able to warm up to the idea of this group....😊

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Macksam

[y1y1y1]

12 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

...The only issue I take with it is the use of political buzz words in their blurb. Specifically “inclusive” and “identify as”. 

again they're very general words and terms and i think you're making them more political than they should be taken. this is definitely not among the most 'political' language we've seen from a cpl sg.

also she did state as much, about wanting to attract more women cause she felt like the only woman, in the cpl article.

Edited March 8, 2020 by y1y1y1

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Stouffvillain]

Austin Ricci is trying to make Valour’s squad this pre-season. Best of luck to him. 

[dmont]

7 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

Sorry, that’s just not the case. 
 

When people choose to use political buzz words in the blurb about their group and it’s purpose, they’ve politicized it, not the people who later recognize and comment on their use of political buzz words. 

They can use whatever words they want. Free country. If the words "inclusive" and "identify as women" upset you, that's nobody's problem but yours. Everybody should mind their own business.

Some of you are surprised that solitary women feel threatened and uncomfortable surrounded by a bunch of drunk idiots capable of disappearing into a crowd? Try imagining the world from a different perspective sometime.

Good for you, ladies. Shut off the comments section and do what makes you happy.

[Ams1984]

1 hour ago, dmont said:

They can use whatever words they want. Free country. If the words "inclusive" and "identify as women" upset you, that's nobody's problem but yours. Everybody should mind their own business.

Some of you are surprised that solitary women feel threatened and uncomfortable surrounded by a bunch of drunk idiots capable of disappearing into a crowd? Try imagining the world from a different perspective sometime.

Good for you, ladies. Shut off the comments section and do what makes you happy.

They can do whatever they want. I can also opine however I’d like. As I said, I’ve no problem with a group that caters to female fans. I have a problem with the unnecessary use of political buzz words. I don’t want politics in soccer. It’s already being shoved down everyone’s throats in the movies, on tv, and in music. It’s divisive and unnecessary, and we don’t need to politicize soccer, it’s the quickest way to alienate huge swaths of potential fans. 
 

I want EVERYONE to enjoy York 9 FC. That includes women. Men too. Minorities and non-minorities also. Liberals, Conservatives, and everyone in between. How some people don’t get this is beyond me. 

[Bison44]

Geesh, its International womens day.  If they put a couple buzzwords that "trigger" you in there, maybe u can swallow it??  The TFC website had a big article about female employees, I can CPL wanting to showcase a all female supporter group. 

Personally I dont give a rats ass if there is a left handed, red headed LARP soccer supporters group.  The more the merrier eh??  

[SthMelbRed]

I believe that the two guys who seem overly bothered by the words 'inclusive' and 'identify as' should go seek therapy somewhere else so we can move on from this manufactured faux rage.

[Macksam]

@dmont, @SthMelbRed and @Bison44

You three are absolutely right.

I will create my own supporters group that will advocate nothing but support for the third position, we will call it the Y9 Union of Fascists. 

I hope the name of my group doesn't overly bother you all with faux rage. I hope you don't give a rat's ass if there is an alternative position LARP soccer supporters group. It's a free country right?

If you have any issue with this group, perhaps you should go seek therapy. 

[Bison44]

Only if you do it on international fascist day.  

[Tigers]

All politics aside, there is an inescapable logical.... Irony? ... some sort of disconnect when using the word "inclusive" about something that eliminates half the population, that I can't help but chuckle at.

Not saying there's anything wrong with that. Not saying there's anything right with that. Cannot state strongly enough how much I am not taking any sort of position. 

Just purely from a wordplay angle:

[dmont]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

@dmont, @SthMelbRed and @Bison44

You three are absolutely right.

I will create my own supporters group that will advocate nothing but support for the third position, we will call it the Y9 Union of Fascists. 

I hope the name of my group doesn't overly bother you all with faux rage. I hope you don't give a rat's ass if there is an alternative position LARP soccer supporters group. It's a free country right?

If you have any issue with this group, perhaps you should go seek therapy. 

What you do is none of my business.

See how easy it is?

[Macksam]

6 hours ago, dmont said:

What you do is none of my business.

See how easy it is?

Obviously I'm being facetious. 

Anyhow, I don't think anybody here has an issue with the Dames supporter group. We are just commenting on the language is all. 

[ironcub14]

What a fun thread over the weekend lmao

Two things,

1. I can only laugh that people who consider "inclusive" and "identify as" to be politicized words, in soccer or in society. Lmao. Anyways, there are literally Y9 fans on other online platforms such as Discord and Twitter who I believe (correct me if I am wrong) are men who self-identify as women, for biological and/or social reasons. Regardless of what you think about transsexuals in a political sense, they exist in both a biological and a social sense, and hey if this SG seeks to include those Y9 fans who identify as women and are receptive to this SG idea, I don't know how any Y9 fan would say no to that lmao.

Yes, I fully understand that you aren't comfortable with the idea of those in the minority bandying together, but try to understand that there are many of those who are in the minority who for whatever reason feel the need to connect with those fellow people who are in the minority with them. Why do you think there are so many soccer teams in the GTA in leagues such as CSL and TSSL and the Hangar where there are teams from those who have immigrated or are descended from specific nations? Are you seriously suggesting they all disband and just join "Canadian" teams? Lmao that's just not ground in reality. We've already had this conversation before. 

2. The whole point of global football/soccer is that it is so inherently political. Sorry if that's something you aren't comfortable with, but that's the plain naked truth. International soccer, obviously, European and South American club soccer, very much so, other club soccer, somewhat as well. I thought we already covered the fact that a soccer forum focused on a single nation would most certainly have some nationalistic and political flavour attached to it, we should all be aware of that. As you two especially have reminded us. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by ironcub14

[The Real Marc]

Awh that's so cute. You're bothered by the language!

[Ams1984]

So, this is the last thing I’m going to say about this because it’s like talking to an especially obstreperous wall. Politics doesn’t belong in soccer. “Identifies as” is 100% political language. Just because you agree with it, or you view it as common, doesn’t negate that it is political. 
 

For some reason, many people are straw-manning what I’m saying. Let me make it super clear: I support the inclusion of women and trans people in Y9 fandom. The issue is that this group could’ve dodged the culture war bullet by using more generic and less political language, that’s all. 
 

I think that only an infantile mind needs to preen around signalling their ideology to everyone, everywhere they go. Left or right. I don’t want Y9 to be a political rally. I want it to entertain me with soccer. I don’t want the political inclinations of a handful of partisan people to drive away the many others who are sick of the bs. 
 

Anyways, good luck to this group, I hope they attract loads of new fans. I also hope that they think about whether their purpose is politics, or the attraction of female fans. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Not surprisingly, I come on this thread and there are tons of posts by people I regularly block, a long stack of "You've chosen to ignore....". And I am so glad I do block some people, it saves a lot of headaches. You can still get the jist, that is fine. 

Most supporter sections in world football are extremely male dominated and many are hostile towards women, straight up. Smart line of argument to be hostile to the proposal as a way of demonstrating there is no reason not to join an intolerant gender-biased section.

Withouth having to dig through the vomit, less intolerant mentalities and types of posts people have been warned and banned on this board. Why do the moderators seem to only work in one direction?

[ironcub14]

I thought we were able to come to a decent understanding the last time we had a similar debate/argument, Ams. Like I said last time, I do see and understand some of your views. Nobody wants Y9 or CPL games to be overtly political. And I understand you are supportive of the inclusion of women and trans people. 

I just am not seeing how "identifies as" in this specific case for the Dames is political language. To me, it's both a biological and a social language, not political whatsoever. Politics to me would be how we as a society or individuals decide we want to treat women and trans people, or how we react to their self-identification as such. But to simply say we are looking for those who identify as women, that honestly seems like just biological or social language. 

Anyways, I'm sure we'd all rather talk about the Y9 season instead. So far, we've only had Antony Casimiro say that we may have signed Mutambala, right? Cool stuff, we definitely need some U21 signings lol. Anybody know what the penalty is for failing to meet the U21 minutes quota? Lol imagine if Y9 failed to meet it lol. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by ironcub14

[Macksam]

@Unnamed Trialist, you were banned for race baiting and saying bigoted things about a certain demographic. There's a difference.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Macksam