Match Thread: September 25, 2019 - Montreal Impact at Toronto FC - Finals, 2nd Leg

[Gian-Luca]

The irony to all this is that I've always suspected that the CSA instituted the rule for 3 Canuck starters for the Canadian Championship after seeing what Montreal did in their CCL run where they normally didn't start any Canadians (despite being the Canadian representative) and if we were lucky, managed to get just 15 minutes of total Canadian playing time if Bernier came off the bench for a match. I've always figured this was the last straw for Victor & co. because the 3 Canuck starter rule came in shortly afterwards. This can be contrasted with TFC's run to the CCL final three years later where a bunch of Canadians played key roles throughout the run and they had as many as 4 Canucks on the field at the end of the final game with everything on the line.

And now we're getting Impact fans bizarrely acting like sore winners (not just here but in other forums) and the TFC-haters coming out and sticking it to TFC for a rule that was seemingly put into place because of an embarrassingly non-Canadian Impact CCL run.

I'm in favour of the quota being raised to as high as 6 starters for the V-cup matches by the way (not only will that force all teams to play more Canadians, but it will give TFC an advantage over the other MLS because with TFC 2 & 3 they have more Canadians under contract than any other team), but that's neither here nor there for the irony mentioned above.

[RS]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

The irony to all this is that I've always suspected that the CSA instituted the rule for 3 Canuck starters for the Canadian Championship after seeing what Montreal did in their CCL run where they normally didn't start any Canadians (despite being the Canadian representative) and if we were lucky, managed to get just 15 minutes of total Canadian playing time if Bernier came off the bench for a match. I've always figured this was the last straw for Victor & co. because the 3 Canuck starter rule came in shortly afterwards. This can be contrasted with TFC's run to the CCL final three years later where a bunch of Canadians played key roles throughout the run and they had as many as 4 Canucks on the field at the end of the final game with everything on the line.

And now we're getting Impact fans bizarrely acting like sore winners (not just here but in other forums) and the TFC-haters coming out and sticking it to TFC for a rule that was seemingly put into place because of an embarrassingly non-Canadian Impact CCL run.

I'm in favour of the quota being raised to as high as 6 starters for the V-cup matches by the way (not only will that force all teams to play more Canadians, but it will give TFC an advantage over the other MLS because with TFC 2 & 3 they have more Canadians under contract than any other team), but that's neither here nor there for the irony mentioned above.

The bolded part is key for me. Everyone in here smugly acting like TFC would be the MLS team most penalized by an increased Canadian quota clearly hasn’t been paying attention.

As for the CCL, I’m sure this board will be eagerly watching for the Canadian content IMFC puts out there...

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, RS said:

So you’d be cool with TFC had they won last night while making the exact same squad moves? Since that’s “the issue” you seem to have. 

No. I'd want TFC to be able to win with Canadians like Impact did, with 2 youth players on top of it.

21 minutes ago, RS said:

Coaches are free to do what they wish with their lineups as long as the rules are being obeyed, and that’s how it should be. TFC’s justification for replacing the fullbacks was because they were being asked to push the pace all game long, which makes sense from a tactical standpoint. I probably would’ve started Shaffelburg, but that just comes down to personal preference as I think he can wear down IMFC’s old RB

The subs were "sub-par". Pardon the pun and despite the strategy intent, they still lost.

Agreed on Shaffelburg, Montreal started Shome after all.

TFC president, GM and coach are all Americans and most sees that it influences some of the decision making. If the rationale it to win at all costs, then yeah, they have the freedom to operate within the rules as they see fit. But when you fail and aren't performing at the level you're selling to justify such decisions, you better be ready to handle the criticism and tough questions.

21 minutes ago, RS said:

I’d love to see more Canadians in the tournament, but the current quota is what it is right now. Given that the CSA’s definition of a Canadian is far more stringent than CanPL’s from a roster standpoint, I’m not sure adopting those rules for the Canadian Championship is necessarily a good thing at the moment. 

That was a weak response.

21 minutes ago, RS said:

And yes, anyone who decries TFC’s lack of Canadians while letting IMFC skate on the issue is a hypocrite. But I know... Toronto bad, everywhere else good.

Why can't you multitask? Condemning the issue of Canadians not playing while denouncing the Impact is totally fine and easy to do and a 100% justified

Yet you dodge the issue and call people hypocrites for not knocking on the Impact as hard.

That's both weak and biais

Edited September 26, 2019 by Ansem

[RS]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

No. I'd want TFC to be able to win with Canadians like Impact did, with 2 youth players on top of it.

The subs were "sub-par". Pardon the pun and despite the strategy intent, they still lost.

Agreed on Shaffelburg, Montreal started Shome after all.

TFC president, GM and coach are all Americans and most sees that it influences some of the decision making. If the rationale it to win at all costs, then yeah, they have the freedom to operate within the rules as they see fit. But when you fail and aren't performing at the level you're selling to justify such decisions, you better be ready to handle the criticism and tough questions.

That was a weak response.

Why can't you multitask? Condemning the issue of Canadians not playing while denouncing the Impact is totally fine and easy to do and a 100% justified

Yet you dodge the issue and call people hypocrites for not knocking on the Impact as hard.

That's both weak and biais

What’s nice is that I don’t care whether you call my responses “weak.” This isn’t a test of strength, so keep that stupid posting style for your BigSoccer friends.

Let’s not act like Montreal ran away with the cup or that TFC was played off the field because two Canadians played more minutes last night. Soccer decisions don’t always pan out, that’s the risk.

[RS]

10 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Why can't you multitask? Condemning the issue of Canadians not playing while denouncing the Impact is totally fine and easy to do and a 100% justified

As for this... this isn’t a question for me, since I wasn’t condemning either team. 

[gator]

1 hour ago, RS said:

Nah, I get it. This board is cool if teams are full of Finns, Argentines, Italians, etc. As long as they’re not Americans.

It’s pretty hypocritical but I’ve come to accept it.

Did you ever consider that the US is a Concacaf rival as well as a rival in many other things? I don't want a team full of Hondurans either, is it over the top to want to watch Canadians play?

[RS]

3 minutes ago, gator said:

I don't want a team full of Hondurans either, is it over the top to want to watch Canadians play?

These are two separate issues. No one’s watching Canadians play when they watch the Impact either, yet they seem to skate by simply because their foreigners aren’t mostly American.

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, RS said:

What’s nice is that I don’t care whether you call my responses “weak.” This isn’t a test of strength, so keep that stupid posting style for your BigSoccer friends

Keep you insults to yourself then or don't complained vmbeing called out on your weak answers 

15 minutes ago, RS said:

Let’s not act like Montreal ran away with the cup or that TFC was played off the field because two Canadians played more minutes last night. Soccer decisions don’t always pan out, that’s the risk.

Then it would have been easier to call them out as well (as I do) then calling people "hypocrites". 

Most just wants more Canadians to play. If TFC can't winn with Canadians that's fine...but I never want to hear that they are the "top" in developing Canadians.

[Ansem]

14 minutes ago, RS said:

As for this... this isn’t a question for me, since I wasn’t condemning either team. 

Indirectly calling out Montreal and calling people hypocrites for calling out TFC. You might want to stop taking people for morons

Edited September 26, 2019 by Ansem

[RS]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

Indirectly calling out Montreal and calling people hypocrites for calling out TFC. You might want to stop taking people for morons

Okay. I'll just take you for one since you are clearly misunderstanding me.

I'll repeat my own words from earlier just to clarify: "anyone who decries TFC’s lack of Canadians while letting IMFC skate on the issue is a hypocrite."

Obviously you've taken issue with that, even though the original post that contained this sentiment wasn't even directed at you (nor was it in response to you). That's your problem, not mine.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

These are two separate issues. No one’s watching Canadians play when they watch the Impact either, yet they seem to skate by simply because their foreigners aren’t mostly American.

You dont speak french so you dont know that Montreal has taking a huge hit and lots criticism for giving a Quebecer Maxime Crepeau for almost nothing while overpaying Evan Bush who's been mediocre all year.

The issue of Jackson-Hamel has been a hot topic too, same for Brault-Guillard minutes. Did you know that they are noticing Beland-Goyette and wondering what went wrong with him?

Montreal fans cares that their own gets playing time and do well while expecting their team to perform. Hows that too much to ask for TFC?

[RS]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Most just wants more Canadians to play. If TFC can't winn with Canadians that's fine...but I never want to hear that they are the "top" in developing Canadians.

You still haven't answered me. Who are you hearing this from?

[RS]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

You dont speak french

Tell me more about me.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

Tell me more about me.

Then you aren't on their SG group social media platform, follow social media interaction between fans, journalists and the club and work with Culture Soccer where they are hardcore Impact fans and MLS fans and they still are capable to point out that more Canadians should be playing.

So yeah, Montreal might not be called out as much as you wish here since it's mostly Toronto centric here but that issue is being raised in Montreal more often then you think.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Ansem

[gator]

My issue is more specific to TFC because I follow them closer and know more about the squad but in general it is with MLS and the other 2 Canadian teams do not get a free pass from me although the Caps gave minutes to more Canadians than the other 2 I would imagine! I was there from day one with TFC and was thrilled we got an MLS franchise, I expected it would be like the old NASL with lots of Canadians playing, which it was in early years but in all honesty most of the Canadians in early years weren't that good, neither were most of the other players for that matter! I've seen too many Canadians not get a fair chance in my opinion, often passed over for draft picks from the NCAA, now with the team being managed by Americans from top to bottom it's hard for me not to have a bias and it grows, I would have lost my sh#t if the last Canadian on the pitch (Osorio) was subbed out for Mullins! I have stated before for many TFC fans it became cool to slag the Canadians, this really disappoints me! Yes,  I see things through Red and White tinted glasses but like everyone else I am entitled to my opinion on this and I stand by it! Thankfully the CPL has come along and I have a great local team (Forge) to support where I can see many great young Canadians play!

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, gator said:

Did you ever consider that the US is a Concacaf rival as well as a rival in many other things? I don't want a team full of Hondurans either, is it over the top to want to watch Canadians play?

I'm not really seeing anyone here disagreeing with or arguing against the notion that we want to see more Canadians play though. I get where the Anti-American sentiment is coming from as well (I will be cheering as hard against the TFC Americans on October 15th as anyone will) but it's not enough to justify the holier-than-thou "TFC is evil and must be destroyed" attitude from fans of other teams on this forum, teams who are doing no more for Canadian soccer than TFC are.

Right now I feel Liam Fraser deserves more playing time while like you, I remain unconvinced that Mullins is an upgrade over Hamilton so I'd rather have just kept the local boy who was having his most prolific season to date rather than have him sit on the bench for all but 35 minutes for Columbus for a guy who isn't an upgrade. At the same time though, I can also recognize that TFC have given a platform for Richie Laryea to succeed where the MLS club that drafted him did not, and even better, they have done so by converting him to a position where (fortuitously) is one of the positions where Canada needed more depth and improvement in. I also recognize that Shaffelburg has been given more first team minutes as a teenager than I had been expecting (there were many on here who were advocating he sign with HFX in the CPL because they didn't even think he would get much of a sniff with TFC2).

In other words, I'm calling it as I see it and acknowledging the good and the bad from a Canadian perspective rather that all this "Vanney hates all Canadians" stuff that the conspiracy theorists are putting forth on this and other forums (these conspiracy theorists tend to go rather quiet when the likes of Laryea and Shaffelburg's success this year are brought up for discussion, since their success are facts which don't fit their conspiracy theory, so they tend to be ignored and dismissed). Vanney's perceived nepotism is one thing, the notion that he despises Canadians such as Laryea & Shaffelburg or is playing Americans over them(which he isn't) is another.

[RS]

9 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

In other words, I'm calling it as I see it and acknowledging the good and the bad from a Canadian perspective rather that all this "Vanney hates all Canadians" stuff that the conspiracy theorists are putting forth on this and other forums (these conspiracy theorists tend to go rather quiet when the likes of Laryea and Shaffelburg's success this year are brought up for discussion, since their success are facts which don't fit their conspiracy theory, so they tend to be ignored and dismissed). Vanney's perceived nepotism is one thing, the notion that he despises Canadians such as Laryea & Shaffelburg or is playing Americans over them(which he isn't) is another.

We need to bring back signatures so I can have this show up at the bottom of every one of my posts.