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USA vs Canada - Friday Nov 15th, Orlando FL

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It's not even like Davies is a career lb, he's played a few games there but for the most part has been an attacker in his career.  We finally get a guy who is dynamic on the ball and who can attract a ton of attention and beat players and Herdman in our biggest games has put him at lb.  Herdman is just out of his league, the team was ill prepared and he ran out a 4-4-2 with basically no attackers who can break lines and trouble teams on the break aside from David and that's not even his major strong point.  This game was easy to set up tactically, you play a compact 4-3-3 and you try to frustrate the opposition and look to counter, but he played Davies as an attacking lb in a game we should be defending a decent amount because ???? This is our most exciting team in for ever and this guy has no clue what he's doing or how to prepare a team.  Was the same thing in the gold cup, poor job setting the team up and not utilizing his best player at all.  It's like when Spurs played Gareth Bale at lb, just a huge waste of talent of someone who's not a great defender anyways.  

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I know everyone freaking out but really I think we were just outclassed on the night. I don’t think we need to throw the whole team or even make to many changes. Borjan is still better then Crepeau. I don’t even think he made a mistake tonight and it’s hard to blame him for the goals because are defence fell apart on each one. Eustaqio looked good when he came on and I think Cornelius showed he should be paired with Vitoria. I also think tonight has shown Davies shouldn’t play LB for us and the RB spot is still very much up for grabs.

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5 minutes ago, TOCanada115 said:

I wrote this before the 1st Canada vs USA game, and people didn’t want to hear it about Piette. When teams press him (go watch the Mexico match), he gives the ball up. I love him for the ball winner he is, and MOTM last game, but it didn’t help that him and Kaye have played a combined 30 minutes the last month. They really need Hutch tonight, and this Davies at LB experiment needs to end. I honestly can’t name one time since the Gold Cup where Cornelius is main man at fault. He’s a horrible passer, but so is Henry, and he has stinkers all the time. 

Fully agree. I liked how he played in the last match, but I also mentioned how he was overly aggressive at times. He pushed up to close down Bradley multiple times and all it did was allow Bradley to make simple passes behind Piette to find a wide open player. And yes, under pressure he's scary with the ball. Doesn't have the composure or technique as Kaye, Hutchinson, or Eustaquio. Also, when needing a goal, Kaye should've stayed on. Piette provided some hard tackles, but man we needed Kayes' vision and passes upfront.

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7 minutes ago, Colliedor said:

 

Dear... God...Not only is he not phased by his performance today, but he also thinks he's better than Alaba...

He's a moron, its not even a difficult calculation to make.  Davies is the best LB, RW, LW, RB etc and at LB he barely has a chance to influence the game.  At Bayern he's playing LB because they have Gnabry, Coman, Perisic, Mueller ahead of him, Herdman has absolutely no idea what he's doing if he thinks its a no brainer, just absolutely no idea how to utilize his best players.  The best LB for Bayern plays CM for Austria because of the gulf in talent from Bayern to Austria and because he influences the game massively, Herdman is just copying people's work because he's not at the level to sort these problems out for himself.  

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I think Herdman got this wrong. He played Phonzie at LB but Phonzie didn't get the memo. He would never play like that at Bayern but in his defense you see near the end how he was able to dance around people at will in the attack. I also think Cornelius should have started and I really like Doneil. One positive is I think Eustaquio looked very promising. I don't think we were outclassed I just think game had s really strange rythem with the early goal

Edited by SpursFlu

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On 11/13/2019 at 9:20 PM, BearcatSA said:

This is one of those situations where, historically, we've really sh*t the bed.  Another good chance for Herdman to show his chops in the psychological prep for this game.

Well, that turned out just dandy, didn't it?

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27 minutes ago, TOCanada115 said:

For me, Herdmen is a motivator, not tactician. I personally don’t believe he’s the guy for the job.

I'm not so sure.  If he was such a good motivator, I would expect more mental strength from the team so they don't completely fall apart when face with adversity - I'm thinking second half vs. Haiti, Borjan screaming at teammates and 2nd minute today

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41 minutes ago, Kent said:

I am not so sure that Cornelius doesn’t make a difference if he starts tonight. Full disclosure I am not even sure who of the CBs should have been covering the left and who the right, but why was Morris and another American so wide open on the first goal? Maybe Cornelius is smart enough to just be generally in the way on that side and USA doesn’t score in the first 2 minutes. Maybe he could have defended the headed goals that Henry missed (and from what I remember from Henry’s TFC days he was a beast in the air. Not tonight!)

Cornelius although played better than Henry did look just like Henry on that last goal.  Poorly timed or poorly judged jump for a header that led to his goal.  If I'm not mistaken, all 3 of Vitoria, Henry & Cornelius had poor header attempts that led to goals in this game.

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38 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Outside the whole Davies debacle, it needs to be said Herdman has no idea what to do with David. He's invisible against better opposition for Canada.

Eh... he was fine against Mexico.

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And holy **** this board is a pendulum when it comes to Herdman. He's either the best ever or the worst coach in history.

Truth is he lies somewhere in the middle, and sometimes teams (especially Canada) will crap the bed. That's soccer. Move on and keep trying to get better over time instead of overreacting with each result (good or bad).

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2 hours ago, Floortom said:

Expected goals was 1.97 to 0.99

bad mistakes on our part and a bit of luck for them really drove that score line

I'll give them credit and say "good finishing" rather than "luck" but yeah, I think the scoreline flattered them. They really weren't that good.

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3 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I'll give them credit and say "good finishing" rather than "luck" but yeah, I think the scoreline flattered them. They really weren't that good.

We were sloppy in possession and made several mistakes that led directly to US goals. The scoreline indeed flatters them. Having said that, bad giveaways have cost this group a couple of big games this year. We need to clean things up.

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As Mike Tyson said, everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face. Herdman is great when things go according to his carefully laid plans, but when a curveball comes our way, like today's early goal, everything falls apart.

Herdman has shown a consistent inability to respond tactically in games. It is what it is. I don't think it's going to get any better, it's part of his personality. It's a weakness we have to work around, just like our defence. 

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We created zip at the end of the day. It certainly felt like they scored against the run of play at times but they CREATED clear opportunities and FINISHED them. 

It is an absolute ****** to take. We got more eyes on us in the general public, fought an under strength US side and still blew it when it mattered most..again.

It will sadly overshadow all of the positives of the past year or so. 

 

 

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Herdman's strength has always been on the mental side of the game, having the players mentally prepared.  So I think it's alarming that what's killing this team right now has been the number of mental errors they've made, first against Haiti and now against the US.  After the Haiti game, for this shouldn't have happened.  Not the loss, but the way they lost.

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I didn't like breaking up the Vitoria-Cornelius pairing. I didn't like Davies at LB. There was little time to train ahead of the game, so why make those changes?

Herdman has a long time to ponder things, but I really didn't like his post-game comments. Maybe it was still too fresh, but there seems to be little remorse on his end for how he set the team up.

On the bright side, I would rather Herdman makes this mistake now than WCQ. The same was said after the Haiti game, but we gotta stay positive and hope Herdman and the team learn how to get a result, rather than overthinking things and falling to temptation.

I know it must have been irresistible to play Davies at LB after the Bayern hype, but sometimes you have to be more pragmatic and less ideological (aka wanting to attack through wingbacks when all you need is a draw).

Edited by Obinna

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Its a tough pill to swallow, with the US being down right now, but lets put it in persepective.  Home and home with USA, one win a piece.  When was the last time qwe could say that?  The 17 points from the win is the biggie, it could have been better but we all know how bad it could have been as well.  Playing poorly on the road is something we can work on.  As usual the results are good enough for me to think Herdman is doing the right things, but not quite enough to make me buy in 100%.  Listening to him talk just makes me feel like he is trying to sell me the extended warranty on my new ottoman.  The bright side is it forces them to line up some friendlies, and maybe even a camp poutine!!  

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Honduras #2 essentially. Why do I do this to myself. Obviously not quite as devastating but **** this. It’s always one step forward then two steps back.

Edited by scullion44

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38 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I didn't like breaking up the Vitoria-Cornelius pairing. I didn't like Davies at LB. There was little time to train ahead of the game, so why make those changes?

I know it must have been irresistible to play Davies at LB after the Bayern hype, but sometimes you have to be more pragmatic and less ideological (aka wanting to attack through wingbacks when all you need is a draw).

Totally agree with these two comments.  Vitoria and Cornelius already had a game together and played well, why put in a guy who may have the physical tools, but has so many negatives in his overall game in Henry.

The CMNT is not Bayern Munich.  I truly believe Davies can become one of the world’s best LB’s, but even if he is, he needs to play in a more naturally attacking position like in the first US match.  He is by far our most talented player, and at LB he doesn’t have the quality and support around him to be truly effective as he is when playing for an elite team like Bayern.  Good parallel made to Alaba - he has rarely ever played  LB for Austria.
I’d like to say too many changes from what worked in the first game, although if Canada hadn’t given up a goal after 2 minutes things might have been different- I could have seen a scenario where this lineup , which was set up to all out attack, scores the first goal and it would have caused the fragile US to crumble.

There was a lot of intensity missing this game from our guys, and the US showed a whole lot more.

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4 hours ago, VinceA said:

Outside the whole Davies debacle, it needs to be said Herdman has no idea what to do with David. He's invisible against better opposition for Canada.

ATTACKING MID...

He needs a system maximizing his strengths 

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4 hours ago, hamiltonfan said:

Fck Herdman. What a fraud 

I'm not a fan of Herdman and remain skeptical about him, but losing heavily to the USA and Mexico is going to happen sometimes, because although we have some very good players starting we also have some that are slightly out of their depth in a game like this. Winning the first game was a significant achievement and having that on his CV means he is unlikely to be leaving any time soon even after a scoreline like this.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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