MLS is unhappy with the CSA

[Ansem]

 

 “I am excited about the development of the CPL,” Garber said. “But we do need to work together to figure [things] out. The Canadian Soccer Association needs to figure out how they’re going to engage with Major League Soccer teams that are investing millions and millions and millions of dollars per team, not including what they’ve invested in their academies and in their infrastructure, to ensure that that investment is going to help develop the Canadian player, and help justify the investment that they are making, otherwise that investment is going to go away, because right now, it’s not making that much sense.”

[Ansem]

It's news to me that developing MLS pool of players was the CSA's job

[Bison44]

GEEEPERS BATMAN......reserve teams!!!  There is going to be parrot shit all over this thread.  Garber is goign to threaten CSA about MLS teams dropping investment in CDN soccer unless they play ball with regards to USL and Canadian clubs??  Seems like this is a premptive shot across the bow for the Ottawa sanctioning baloney that is coming up soon.  F&ck Garber!!  If the Cdn MLS clubs stop investing in CDN soccer then they can see their CDN support/fan base dry up.  

“Now at some point that needs to be resolved or the Canadian player is not going to get developed as effectively as they need to get developed. Right now, the Whitecaps don’t have a USL association because they’re not permitted to have a USL team here in Vancouver. Toronto has a USL 3 team, and there are a wide variety of reasons for that, and Montreal they had an affiliation [with USL side Ottawa Fury].”  Garber

[Ansem]

However...MLS seems pretty concerned by "the sheep" not wanting to play ball, so it goes crying to the CSA...lame

Edited September 17, 2019 by Ansem

[red card]

46 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's news to me that developing MLS pool of players was the CSA's job

This is so typical of US-based pro leagues. They think they're the centre of their sport's universe. But it's always about making them more money rather than the good of the sport overall. And if you don't play ball them, they'll pick up their ball and move away. Everyday, they're using their closed systems to beat down anyone who will hurt them financially.

They do this to get corporate welfare for stadium deals with cities/states, parking/concession deals and allowing their players to play in Olympics/int events while leaching off basically free player development done by college/junior systems.

MLS has solved this thorny control issue in the US since the USSF is part of SUM. They don't have the CSA in their pocket. And now the advent of the CPL is looking like a prickly problem for MLS.

Edited September 17, 2019 by red card

[SpursFlu]

After hearing Garbers media rounds I was so tempted to cancel my Whitecaps tickets

Someone should let him know we're not a colony and we dont need to conveniently create a closed pyramid with his American league on top

I would also like to point out to him that a US military base in Germany has produced more US national team players than the MLS has

Edited September 17, 2019 by SpursFlu

[narduch]

My guess is USL is moving forward with kicking all MLS reserve leagues down to their 2nd division. 

And perhaps Vancouver and Montreal want to give it another go at that level. But are now blocked. 

But Garber is such a weasel its tough to have any sympathy 

[dyslexic nam]

I am not happy unless Garber is unhappy.  This makes me smile.

seriously though, the idea that Garber is telling us how to expand opportunities for developing Canadian players - while maintaining the system that discriminates against Canadian players and directly limits their opportunities for progression - is so ironic it is pretty insulting. 

[CanadaFan123]

Oh, this is just too entertaining!  What a dream.

"The Canadian Soccer Association needs to figure out how they’re going to engage with Major League Soccer teams that are investing millions and millions and millions of dollars per team..."

I have an idea!  Why don't we make our U17 team consist 99% of players from the 3 MLS academies?!  Oh, we already do that?

What on earth is this man complaining about?  Like really.. wtf does the CSA have to do with anything here?  YOU have to do something Donny boy!  We don't have to do anything.. let your investment slip away and watch the next Davies walk into CPL.  

The options are clear for you: 

a) Reasonably co-operate with CPL teams in a fair manner; or

b) Find affiliates in the States (big fail).

They're just mad because they don't have the USSF to bully the CPL here.  Tough shit.

What the CPL should be looking to do, as I've said before, and we can get the MLS teams on our side here:  tell MLS teams that when we get a second division they can put affiliates there (that can't promote).  This makes them have an interest in the league or kill off their development.  If it doesn't expand they're out of luck.  Align our goals.

Ultimately the dream would be to have affiliates for the MLS teams in the CPL 2nd division and the top MLS prospects loaned to first division sides.  But we all know MLS likely won't stand for this.. they want their cake and to eat it too in all situations.

Edited September 19, 2019 by CanadaFan123

[baulderdash77]

When CPL gets to 12 or 14 teams and they want to start up a CPL2 system I would fully support having the MLS2 teams in CPL2.  I think that would be very fair to everyone involved.

The reserve teams wouldn’t be eligible for promotion or the Canadian Championship but they could get good competition and development.  

But in the meantime let’s get CPL to 8 and then 10 teams first.  

[ted]

16 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

When CPL gets to 12 or 14 teams and they want to start up a CPL2 system I would fully support having the MLS2 teams in CPL2.

Sorry, I see no realistic path to pro-rel or a CanPL2 that does not include the MLS teams joining CanPL.

Fury will be forced to join CanPL in 2020 or 2021 at the latest. By the time CanPL has expanded to 12 teams the waiver for the MLS teams will be denied under the same rationale as Fury and the USL. The owners of the MLS franchises will sell them to US groups for far more than what they paid for them and can take their windfall and join the CanPL if they wish or make room for new owners and/or teams to operate in those markets.

 

[Obinna]

I agree with most of the posts coming from you guys.

I would say though that I do not have a problem with the MLS teams putting their reserve teams in USL league one.

I hope USL gets cleaned up and all the reserve teams get dropped from the Championship. I know this is commentary on the American system, but it would be cool for the Championship to only consist of first teams, with reserve teams not allowed to promote past league one.

USL Championship is already top heavy compared to League one, so dropping down the reserve teams would balance it out. Furthermore, if you are a first team in league one, your chances of promotion are higher, as there are fewer teams which can promote. Would make it more exciting for them. Plus the MLS reserves get games against their own and against grown men. Good for them.

And for the first teams who drop down from the Championship? Well, playing against a bunch of MLS reserve teams would make it feel like a true demotion and should provide them with ample reason to get back out of it. 

As for league two, the old PDL, just leave that one alone and let them do their thing. There are like 100 teams broken down by region...

Edit: By my count, the Championship has 36 teams broken into east and west. 12 are MLS teams. That leaves you with 24 proper USL teams. They can keep east and west for an even 12 each, if they wish.

Add those 12 reserve sides to the 10 sides currently in League one and you have a nice 22 team league. Again, you can break it into conferences, if you desire.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Obinna

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 9/26/2019 at 6:42 PM, ted said:

Sorry, I see no realistic path to pro-rel or a CanPL2 that does not include the MLS teams joining CanPL...

If they are serious on entering markets as small as 200,000 it's feasible. It's just not going to happen quickly (i.e. it could easily take a generation or more to unfold) if the rumours about an 8 million expansion fee are accurate and unless a lot more municipalities start to see a 5000+ seat soccer stadium as a basic piece of infrastructure like Langford did.

MLS teams joining CanPL is very much in the realm of fantasy given they are majority league owned under single entity. Hopefully people on here will finally give the Ottawa Fury being forced back by CONCACAF thing a rest once it fails to happen this year. There's nothing in FIFA's regulations that provides a rationale for forcing the Fury back but not going after the MLS teams as well, so they are all effectively grandfathered in.

[ted]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:50 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

There's nothing in FIFA's regulations that provides a rationale for forcing the Fury back but not going after the MLS teams as well, so they are all effectively grandfathered in.

I expect them to "go after" the MLS teams once they have settled the Fury business.  IMO the MLS teams get another year for sure but if CanPL teams get results in the VCup and CONCACAF League similar to or better than this year, the argument for giving them the exemption starts to disappear.

[Gian-Luca]

45 minutes ago, ted said:

I expect them to "go after" the MLS teams once they have settled the Fury business.  IMO the MLS teams get another year for sure but if CanPL teams get results in the VCup and CONCACAF League similar to or better than this year, the argument for giving them the exemption starts to disappear.

Purely out of curiosity, are you anticipating that the MLS teams will have their salary cap and cost structure grandfathered into the CPL's salary cap level, or are you imagining that the CSA is just going to tell the likes of MLSE "Don't worry, nothing is going to change there is no difference at all in the two leagues, but you do have to get rid of 95% of your players - even the ones still under contract - to fit in under the significantly-reduced salary cap - which shouldn't be a problem for you guys given that you will probably lose 95% revenue as well given that most of your existing fans will desert you, given the "high" attendance that the CPL has garnered up the road at York University"? I can imagine that the CSA just can't wait to have that conversation with the MLS teams....

[narduch]

I don't foresee CSA ever forcing the MLS teams into CPL.

However, I could see Whitecaps and Impact joining on their own over time. Just a feeling I have.

[AvroArrow]

If the current Canadian MLS clubs ever join the CPL, it will mean the American economy has crashed and burned.

[ted]

5 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Purely out of curiosity, are you anticipating that the MLS teams will have their salary cap and cost structure grandfathered into the CPL's salary cap level...

Why would they?

When the "owners" in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver sell their franchises, the players contracts, which are still owned by MLS last I heard, are transferred along with them. Keeping players in such a move would require renegotiating contracts.

More generally, sports contracts always include escape clauses for the owners that would prevent continuing obligations to players should they drop out of whatever league they are playing in.

And if, by some spectacular blunder of legal counsel, teams had multi-year obligations that could not be negotiated away, the CSA could always give a sufficient notice (ie. 2-5 years) allowing contracts to play out.

 

[narduch]

The Athletic had an article today about the Impact, claiming they lose $11 million a year. 

I wonder how long they can sustain that. 

And Vancouver appears to be running cheaply as well compared to the rest of MLS. 

Why not sell your franchise to an American city and re launch in the CPL?

[Bison44]

11million??  Sounds like creative accounting so Joey has a tax write off.  

[Gian-Luca]

4 hours ago, ted said:

Why would they?

 

It was a rhetorical question. They wouldn't, because you can't have a league where three teams get to operate at an officially far-higher level than the rest of the league, which means either the CPL cap goes up to a level that would cause most of the CPL owners not just to lose their shirts, but also their socks, underwear, jock straps, condoms and their entire wardrobe or the MLS teams are forced to comply with the far-lower CPL cap. Either way means disaster, so I have no idea why anyone would want to see this happen, least of all the CSA. There would be a lawsuits and injunctions galore before you could say "Dale Barnes" and the association would never recover from "CSA Forces  MLS Teams to Minor Leagues Against Their Will, Just  for the Fun of It"-type headlines. As for the notion that the MLS teams would be forced to sell their team, who is going to buy TFC at its current value at nigh on $300 Million (USD) so that they can operate them in front of 2000 fans in the CPL? (Don't answer the question - that's also a rhetorical one).

If they want to leave of their own volition that's one thing, but nothing good - for anyone - would come of trying to force them down.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Gian-Luca

[narduch]

24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

11million??  Sounds like creative accounting so Joey has a tax write off.  

Their payroll is $10 million though.

[ted]

18 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

If they want to leave of their own volition that's one thing, but nothing good - for anyone - would come of trying to force them down.

I would say that strengthening the CanPL and making a huge pile of money for the owners of the three franchises are both good things.

I believe the reverse is true, nothing bad would come of denying them a continuation of the exemption.

[Macksam]

I've said it before but the earliest this will happen is 2026 when the One deal is up and the soccer landscape has further fleshed out. If the Can PL has grown to the point where the average attendance is around 10,000 and the Can PL execs are presenting to the three MLS teams that OneSoccer/TSN/sponsors are putting lucrative deals on the table should they join them, MLSE/Kerfoot/Saputo will have a serious decision to make. Considering they will make gains on the franchise values and new revenue streams, they all might jump on board. Now, if MLS has grown exponentially in that time where the deal from Can PL cannot compare, I don't think it will happen. I also think the MLS teams joining would boost the Can Pl's league's overall attendance to 15,000 plus in that timeline. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Macksam