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Canada vs. United States (Nations League A) Tuesday, Oct. 15th, 2019 - 7:30pm EST

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Expectations were too high especially on this forum. This isn't part of any season ticket package. So you get 20-25k+ for any quasi-meaningless/meaningful MLS match against a generic MLS team.

While CMNT is not a draw for non-Voyageurs football followers yet. CWNT is a bigger general draw.

US also doesn't attract the so-called Euro snob base. And their support doesn't travel as well compared to Mexico or even Honduras. Interest in the USMNT is also at the lower end. I have read only 9k have been sold to Cuba match in DC even though prices are at really low levels for USMNT matches (US$24). 

It's also not WC qualifying. 

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43 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

It's a marketing problem. None of the media is behind it, no one knows it's going on. NFL is back, Leafs are back, Raptors will be back. Even TFC fans probably barely give it a thought. There is zero oxygen for it right now.

Buy maybe that is a Toronto problem. 

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2 hours ago, Lansdude said:

It's a marketing problem. None of the media is behind it, no one knows it's going on. NFL is back, Leafs are back, Raptors will be back. Even TFC fans probably barely give it a thought. There is zero oxygen for it right now.

This match is also RIGHT after Thanksgiving.

This makes it more difficult to get people to commute to this after they have had a busy long-weekend.

People know they will still be in the Turkey coma.

Also more difficult to get to if you are from out of town.

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1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

This match is also RIGHT after Thanksgiving.

This makes it more difficult to get people to commute to this after they have had a busy long-weekend.

People know they will still be in the Turkey coma.

Also more difficult to get to if you are from out of town.

Worse yet - OUR PLAYERS might still be in a turkey coma.

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4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Can someone explain Toronto to me? I did the blue dot for thing I just can't understand the lack of demand for this game. Are people really thinking 20k? Do people expect a big walk up. It looks like right now the entire upper deck is not available. What's up?

Game isn't on tv or advertised at all (I only see it at tfc games, during intermissions when the stadium is empty..),

I've spoken to  tfc fans who originally thought this game was only friendly and doesn't mean much. They had no idea how big this game is.

the prices are an absolute joke. I'm sorry, the asking price for a team that just recently blew a 2 goal lead against freaking Haiti, a team that hasn't had a wiff of world cup soccer in over 30 years, and they want the already very small and niche fan group to spend $70 or higher? CSA don't know how to do a damn thing right when it comes to this kind of thing. I swear they should just start giving this **** out to tfc fans and hope that introduces new fans instead of outpricing them.

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Mid-October weekday match, in a competition that no one's heard of, featuring a national team that hasn't done anything of note since 2000, versus an opponent going through its worst spell in 30 years.

"WHY AREN'T ALL 30,000 SEATS ALREADY SOLD TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO KICK-OFF?!?!"

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There's only one problem and it's that we are not winning games yet. And no Cuba and Martinique don't count.

We got 50K in at BC Place after we beat Honduras (17K) and because we had a chance to qualify at that time.

If we beat the US, we will truly be on a roll and then we will get upwards of 20K at BMO next year.  

This game is not WCQ where we usually get 18-20K. Thus I now expect 15-17K which is not good enough but given our poor Gold Cup and non existent marketing from CSA, it is what it is.

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10 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Weird excuses or I guess weird reasons. Here's hoping Toronotonians stop watching Tuesday night week 7 NFL games and pre season NBA games to go cheer on Canada. I would give anything for this game to be in Van

The majority of toronto area voygeurs on this forum are going to be there. You’re preaching to the choir. Go start a thread on some tfc forum if you want to chastise toronto ppl for not showing up. 

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Glad the game is not on a ping pong field, BMO field conditions have looked really good this year.

I did think Montreal might have got it at one point but I guess logistically Toronto was the easiest.

I loved the Vancouver turnout vs Mexico but I don't think they will get many games going forward, especially after the decision to be excluded from 2026 (that's my opinion though, not an attack to Vancouver). 

Here is hoping we keep our undefeated streak alive at BMO.

 

Edited by apbsmith

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2 hours ago, king1010 said:

The majority of toronto area voygeurs on this forum are going to be there. You’re preaching to the choir. Go start a thread on some tfc forum if you want to chastise toronto ppl for not showing up. 

I'm not coming down on people here. I think the core of Canadian supporters in Toronto are probably the biggest and best in the country. They always represent extremely well. I'm asking about the entire market. People are supplying reasons and projecting it out to the rest if the country like everywhere is like that. I can guarantee you this would be a big draw in Vancouver. I'm sure other places in Canada would say the same. I understand why the game is in Toronto and it will end up being fine. But if we win this game, some of these "reasons" I'm hoping will be dead a buried forever

Edited by SpursFlu

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1 hour ago, apbsmith said:

Glad the game is not on a ping pong field, BMO field conditions have looked really good this year.

I did think Montreal might have got it at one point but I guess logistically Toronto was the easiest.

I loved the Vancouver turnout vs Mexico but I don't think they will get many games going forward, especially after the decision to be excluded from 2026 (that's my opinion though, not an attack to Vancouver). 

Here is hoping we keep our undefeated streak alive at BMO.

 

If my counting is correct we’ve only lost once in 17 games. That was against Peru in 2010.

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7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

We got 17K for a friendly vs Jamaica, I sure hope we get a lot more than that but I don't see any ads yet. I thought CSB was now in charge of all CMNT games? 

Toronto has a very large Jamaican population that I'm sure boosted that friendly as well 

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20 hours ago, Lansdude said:

It's a marketing problem. None of the media is behind it, no one knows it's going on. NFL is back, Leafs are back, Raptors will be back. Even TFC fans probably barely give it a thought. There is zero oxygen for it right now.

Caldwell made a nice plug for the match on yesterday's broadcast.

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To me this is the biggest game for us since that game in Honduras. Not only would it open a lot of eyes by beating the US we would also almost guarantee us a spot in the HEX. Let's also not forget a really good position to put us in to Nations League final 4. That would be great

Edited by SpursFlu

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15 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

There's only one problem and it's that we are not winning games yet. And no Cuba and Martinique don't count.

We got 50K in at BC Place after we beat Honduras (17K) and because we had a chance to qualify at that time.

If we beat the US, we will truly be on a roll and then we will get upwards of 20K at BMO next year.  

This game is not WCQ where we usually get 18-20K. Thus I now expect 15-17K which is not good enough but given our poor Gold Cup and non existent marketing from CSA, it is what it is.

Um, not in Toronto we don't. I guess you are only a couple thousand high based on the numbers from 2012. Here are WCQ in Toronto in reverse chronological order.

2015-09-04 against Belize. 10,412
2015-06-16 against Dominica. 9,749
2012-10-12 against Cuba. 17,712
2012-09-07 against Panama. 17,586
2012-06-12 against Honduras. 16,132
2011-11-15 against St. Kitts and Nevis. 10,235
2011-10-11 against Puerto Rico. 12,178
2011-09-02 against St. Lucia. 11,500
2008-08-20 against Jamaica. 21,978
2000-11-15 against Mexico. 6,465
1993-05-09 against Mexico. 19,185
1992-11-01 against Jamaica. 6,526
1985-08-17 against Costa Rica. 13,486
1980-10-18 against Mexico. 6,371
1972-08-24 against Mexico. 12,187
1968-10-17 against USA. 5,959
1968-10-06 against Bermuda. 4,131

Only over 18k 2 times in World Cup Qualifying history in Toronto.

I was at the Voyageurs Cup final in Toronto last week. I was sitting near a friend of a friend who follows Portugal and is a TFC season ticket holder. I asked him if he'd be going to the Canada vs USA game and he didn't have to even think about it before his face scrunched up and he shook his head no.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing 12 co-workers to the game with me. Only 1 of them is a soccer fan. 2 others kind of like soccer but don't follow very closely, and another person plays soccer but doesn't watch. It might actually be easier to convince non-soccer fans (as long as they aren't just sports haters) to come for a night out than it is to convince soccer fans to come cheer for Canada.

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On the other hand, my buddy got his Portuguese TFC friend to show up for Canada vs US. 😍

But your buddy's scrunched face reaction is what so perplexing. Doesn't he realize the quality of play will be higher than the vast majority of TFC matches?  Or he just can't support Canada Soccer given his generational & cultural allegiance to Portugal? 

Edited by red card

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16 minutes ago, Kent said:

Um, not in Toronto we don't. I guess you are only a couple thousand high based on the numbers from 2012. Here are WCQ in Toronto in reverse chronological order.

2015-09-04 against Belize. 10,412
2015-06-16 against Dominica. 9,749
2012-10-12 against Cuba. 17,712
2012-09-07 against Panama. 17,586
2012-06-12 against Honduras. 16,132
2011-11-15 against St. Kitts and Nevis. 10,235
2011-10-11 against Puerto Rico. 12,178
2011-09-02 against St. Lucia. 11,500
2008-08-20 against Jamaica. 21,978
2000-11-15 against Mexico. 6,465
1993-05-09 against Mexico. 19,185
1992-11-01 against Jamaica. 6,526
1985-08-17 against Costa Rica. 13,486
1980-10-18 against Mexico. 6,371
1972-08-24 against Mexico. 12,187
1968-10-17 against USA. 5,959
1968-10-06 against Bermuda. 4,131

Only over 18k 2 times in World Cup Qualifying history in Toronto.

I was at the Voyageurs Cup final in Toronto last week. I was sitting near a friend of a friend who follows Portugal and is a TFC season ticket holder. I asked him if he'd be going to the Canada vs USA game and he didn't have to even think about it before his face scrunched up and he shook his head no.

Meanwhile, I'm bringing 12 co-workers to the game with me. Only 1 of them is a soccer fan. 2 others kind of like soccer but don't follow very closely, and another person plays soccer but doesn't watch. It might actually be easier to convince non-soccer fans (as long as they aren't just sports haters) to come for a night out than it is to convince soccer fans to come cheer for Canada.

Just look at those opponents. Belize, Dominica, Cuba, St.Kitts, Puerto Rico, St.Lucia.... Boy we had some real quality here..

 

I also remember CSA not opening the top stands in a few of those matches, even though the bottom filled up. At 1 point there was actually large enough demand that CSA decided to open up a small section on the top and even that filled up. Who knows what attendance would've been like had they actually made the seats available.

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38 minutes ago, Colliedor said:

Just look at those opponents. Belize, Dominica, Cuba, St.Kitts, Puerto Rico, St.Lucia.... Boy we had some real quality here..

 

I also remember CSA not opening the top stands in a few of those matches, even though the bottom filled up. At 1 point there was actually large enough demand that CSA decided to open up a small section on the top and even that filled up. Who knows what attendance would've been like had they actually made the seats available.

There are risks with that.  You have the additional operating costs wrt to security, ushers, ect... and a possible increased overall policing cost with the increased number of people overall against... maybe, or maybe not selling more tickets of a lower price.  If you open it up and don't get the walk up, you still have those expenses.   So when do you make that decision?  If the lower bowl sells out days before a game.... it isn't clear you can even arrange it that fast, nor is it clear it would be a financial benefit. 

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57 minutes ago, Colliedor said:

Just look at those opponents. Belize, Dominica, Cuba, St.Kitts, Puerto Rico, St.Lucia.... Boy we had some real quality here..

 

I also remember CSA not opening the top stands in a few of those matches, even though the bottom filled up. At 1 point there was actually large enough demand that CSA decided to open up a small section on the top and even that filled up. Who knows what attendance would've been like had they actually made the seats available.

The point is, there isn't much precedent for 20k plus crowds coming to watch CMNT in Toronto so it's maybe a bit foolish to assume we will get 20k plus out to a crowd for this game or that game. I have been hoping this game against the USA would do it, but haven't assumed it will. Here are a list of the opponents that helped Toronto break the 20k barrier in Toronto's entire history.

Jamaica (twice)
Netherlands
Germany

Here are the opponents that failed to help Toronto break the 20k barrier in Toronto's entire history (I'm not putting how many games for each, that's too much work).

Cuba
Dominica
Belize
Costa Rica
Panama
Honduras
USA
Saint Kitts
Puerto Rico
St. Lucia
Ecuador
Peru
Mexico
Trinidad and Tobago
Guatemala
Macedonia
Iran
Turkey
Portugal
Denmark
Hong Kong
Scotland
Poland
Greece
Chile
Wales
Italy
Bermuda

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1 hour ago, red card said:

On the other hand, my buddy got his Portuguese TFC friend to show up for Canada vs US. 😍

But your buddy's scrunched face reaction is what so perplexing. Doesn't he realize the quality of play will be higher than the vast majority of TFC matches?  Or he just can't support Canada Soccer given his generational & cultural allegiance to Portugal? 

I think a lot of soccer fans just have that reaction hardwired into them. Maybe if they researched the team and thought about it they would arrive at the conclusion that a Canada vs USA game is a higher level than TFC vs Columbus, but there is still that thought in the back of their heads that Canada sucks at soccer and isn't worth their time.

I think some people also follow the rule of 1 team to support. The logic going that you can only have 1 favorite team, so they can't support Italy and Canada. They already support Italy, so Canada is out of luck, even though those teams have never faced each other in official competition.

Even if Canada turns a corner results-wise, I think it's going to be a pretty long hard slog to get the potential fan base engaged.

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37 minutes ago, Kent said:

The point is, there isn't much precedent for 20k plus crowds coming to watch CMNT in Toronto so it's maybe a bit foolish to assume we will get 20k plus out to a crowd for this game or that game. I have been hoping this game against the USA would do it, but haven't assumed it will. Here are a list of the opponents that helped Toronto break the 20k barrier in Toronto's entire history.

Jamaica (twice)
Netherlands
Germany

Here are the opponents that failed to help Toronto break the 20k barrier in Toronto's entire history (I'm not putting how many games for each, that's too much work).

Cuba
Dominica
Belize
Costa Rica
Panama
Honduras
USA
Saint Kitts
Puerto Rico
St. Lucia
Ecuador
Peru
Mexico
Trinidad and Tobago
Guatemala
Macedonia
Iran
Turkey
Portugal
Denmark
Hong Kong
Scotland
Poland
Greece
Chile
Wales
Italy
Bermuda

There is no precedence for 20K games anywhere as a regular thing. 

When you search numbers for Vancouver, make sure you do a search for Burnaby too.

I think, Edmonton, Vancouver and Toronto have all cracked 20K three times. 




 

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There is also no precedence for a good Canadian team either. There is also no precedence for a Canadian kid playing for Bayern Munch at 18 and considered one of the most exciting young players on the planet. Not to mention everyone else we could go on about

Edited by SpursFlu

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