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Canada vs. United States (Nations League A) Tuesday, Oct. 15th, 2019 - 7:30pm EST

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1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

With him coming back from injury, I'd expect Hutchinson to be the guy we bring on with 20 mins left to protect a lead.  

Depending on fitness and circumstances, this is actually how I could see us cap Eustaquio.  Take off an attack minded player mid or 2nd striker and throw on a second defensive mid to shut things down completely. 

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21 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Depending on fitness and circumstances, this is actually how I could see us cap Eustaquio.  Take off an attack minded player mid or 2nd striker and throw on a second defensive mid to shut things down completely. 

Was this kind of what Herdman was trying to do against Haiti up 2-1 when he replaced Osorio with a not 100% Kaye? This left us with two defensive minded mids in Kaye and Hutch. At least more defensive than Osorio and Hutch. 

That change didn't really work out for us. Really killed our linkage in the mid. 😥

Maybe the change just wan't implemented properly. I'm just cautious given how that played out for us last time. 

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That's fair.   Though if I remember correctly, Kaye was definitely not at 100%.  I am predicating the suggestion on the idea that Eustaquio is fully fit. Do agree with others though that we can't just assume he quickly displaces Piette.  I have been more and more impressed by the way Piette quietly does his job down the middle.

 

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

I still want redemption from the 2007 gold cup semi. 

Wow, that was our 2nd most recent competitive match against the US. The most recent was a Gold Cup group stage game in 2011 (we lost 2-0 and didn't advance).

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14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

That's fair.   Though if I remember correctly, Kaye was definitely not at 100%.  I am predicating the suggestion on the idea that Eustaquio is fully fit. Do agree with others though that we can't just assume he quickly displaces Piette.  I have been more and more impressed by the way Piette quietly does his job down the middle.

 

We will see how Eustaquio adapts to football after an ACL tear (that was the injury, right)? Speaking from experience, your knee is never the same. Aside from losing speed, there is a mental barrier to overcome when it comes to contact, and as a no. 6, there is going to plenty of contact.

The other thing I would say is that even after he recovers, he may still be a better player than Piette, but more importantly his style of play is much different (from what I can tell). To use a Chelsea reference, he is the Jorginho to Piette's Kante. 

The good news is that we can adapt our style, with time, to play in different ways, depending on who the no. 6 is.

If we want the combative, destroyer type, who can shield the backline, break up plays and keep posession, we can go with Piette. If the game calls for more of a deep-lying, elegant playmaking midfielder, with a good passing and shooting range, than Eustaquio is out guy. 

Edited by Obinna

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Two sections are already half sold out. 

I will NOT be able to get people tickets in the week before this game, let alone days..... like usual.  This is not Dominica.

Get your tickets to this game. 

If you are flying in and still making plans, let me know ASAP.

 

 

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Quite some time has passed since the Gold Cup, and we've all had time to reflect and digest some of the decisions and results.  I see things very differently from pre-GC and even post-GC.  Just wanna throw this out there and get some feedback, I can't be the only one, bear with me….

Going into the US match, we all know what and where our weakest link is.  The US knows that too.  They'll be driving it up our left side with Pulisic all day and night.  We'll find ourselves behind before Davies, Cavallini, David and Hoilett are even warmed up.

Now, if Bayern f'in Munich think Davies might be a solution at LB, who are we as Canadian soccer fans - who haven't even smelled or seen success in 30 years - to even question that?  We're a 16 year old rich kid who wants to drive his Ferrari before having gotten his drivers permit, just wants to drive it without understanding what he's actually got.   The Ferrari in this case, is not just Davies, but the combination of Davies, Cavallini, David, Hoilett, Kaye, Arfield, etc……

I've seen people on here are propose starting vs the US with everything from Arfield, Kaye, Hutch, Cavallini, Hoilett, etc… on the bench.  That’s just insane.  Our top 6 can play vs the best of CONCACAF and even the US, we need to have them all on the field, none of this super-sub ********.  We're severely lacking quality, experience and just general soccer instinct at the back.  The two games vs the US will define our path to Qatar.  The idea of putting our best 11 on the field isn't such a bad one in this case.  We'll have time (2 years) to develop Miller into our starting LB if we do well vs the US. 

If playing Davies at LW means we have to play David at RW and Hoilett sees the bench, it doesn't seem so dumb to play Davies at LB when Bayern f'in Munich seems to think he's doing well there.

Call it what you want, but on the heat map, this is what I want to see

------------Cavallini

--------------David

----Hoilett /Kaye / Arfield

------Piette

Davies / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

  • Piette plays ahead of the CB's favoring and supporting Davies on the left. 
  • Kaye and/or Arfield alternating def/off duties
  • David playing just behind Cavallini
  • Hoilett joining the attack often, trident mode with Cav and David, with Kaye and Arfield picking up the pieces and providing the second wave.
  • Eustaquio - I'll wait to see how is return goes, knee injuries are not easy to come back from.
  • USA wouldn't dare play arrogant with those threats just waiting to pounce and counter attack

 

The other option for the home game is to go for broke, Conte style, and just go nuts with a 4-2-4:

Davies / Cavallini / David / Hoilett

--------------Arfield / Kaye

Miller / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

And then bunker down, park the bus for the away game.

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42 minutes ago, costarg said:

Going into the US match, we all know what and where our weakest link is.  The US knows that too.  They'll be driving it up our left side with Pulisic all day and night.  We'll find ourselves behind before Davies, Cavallini, David and Hoilett are even warmed up.

Or we could press their defense as well. It might be better than ours overall but we have the firepower to hurt them just as hard and fast.

We have to take it to them and we have the midfield to make that happen.

43 minutes ago, costarg said:

Now, if Bayern f'in Munich think Davies might be a solution at LB, who are we as Canadian soccer fans - who haven't even smelled or seen success in 30 years - to even question that?  We're a 16 year old rich kid who wants to drive his Ferrari before having gotten his drivers permit, just wants to drive it without understanding what he's actually got.   The Ferrari in this case, is not just Davies, but the combination of Davies, Cavallini, David, Hoilett, Kaye, Arfield, etc……

Yes but why are they putting Davies as a LB? Outside of Vancouver starting that trend, how else would he see minutes in Bundesliga. Making him versatile is good for all parties here.

However, it's on the club to make him one of the best LB out there, that's not the national team's job. Until Bayern turn him into Alaba, LW is his spot and be sure that Bayern knows that it's his best position as well.

When he's ready, I will be the 1st to crown him LB and move Millar in his place. Until then, no... he makes mistakes and can be a liability.

44 minutes ago, costarg said:

I've seen people on here are propose starting vs the US with everything from Arfield, Kaye, Hutch, Cavallini, Hoilett, etc… on the bench.  That’s just insane.  Our top 6 can play vs the best of CONCACAF and even the US, we need to have them all on the field, none of this super-sub ********. 

It's a case by case thing but I tend to agree. 

 

45 minutes ago, costarg said:

We're severely lacking quality, experience and just general soccer instinct at the back.  The two games vs the US will define our path to Qatar.  The idea of putting our best 11 on the field isn't such a bad one in this case.  We'll have time (2 years) to develop Miller into our starting LB if we do well vs the US. 

That's not the NT job to develop players, they are supposed to arrive ready to execute the coach plan.

However, the NT needs to integrate the next generation into the team's entourage. Yes, Miller but also the likes of Gasparatto, Borges and Zator

46 minutes ago, costarg said:

If playing Davies at LW means we have to play David at RW and Hoilett sees the bench, it doesn't seem so dumb to play Davies at LB when Bayern f'in Munich seems to think he's doing well there.

Have you seen the giveaway in front of Borjan against Cuba? He's still too risky and it's safer to put a natural LB there and let him play LW

 

 

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1 hour ago, costarg said:

Quite some time has passed since the Gold Cup, and we've all had time to reflect and digest some of the decisions and results.  I see things very differently from pre-GC and even post-GC.  Just wanna throw this out there and get some feedback, I can't be the only one, bear with me….

Going into the US match, we all know what and where our weakest link is.  The US knows that too.  They'll be driving it up our left side with Pulisic all day and night.  We'll find ourselves behind before Davies, Cavallini, David and Hoilett are even warmed up.

Now, if Bayern f'in Munich think Davies might be a solution at LB, who are we as Canadian soccer fans - who haven't even smelled or seen success in 30 years - to even question that?  We're a 16 year old rich kid who wants to drive his Ferrari before having gotten his drivers permit, just wants to drive it without understanding what he's actually got.   The Ferrari in this case, is not just Davies, but the combination of Davies, Cavallini, David, Hoilett, Kaye, Arfield, etc……

I've seen people on here are propose starting vs the US with everything from Arfield, Kaye, Hutch, Cavallini, Hoilett, etc… on the bench.  That’s just insane.  Our top 6 can play vs the best of CONCACAF and even the US, we need to have them all on the field, none of this super-sub ********.  We're severely lacking quality, experience and just general soccer instinct at the back.  The two games vs the US will define our path to Qatar.  The idea of putting our best 11 on the field isn't such a bad one in this case.  We'll have time (2 years) to develop Miller into our starting LB if we do well vs the US. 

If playing Davies at LW means we have to play David at RW and Hoilett sees the bench, it doesn't seem so dumb to play Davies at LB when Bayern f'in Munich seems to think he's doing well there.

Call it what you want, but on the heat map, this is what I want to see

------------Cavallini

--------------David

----Hoilett /Kaye / Arfield

------Piette

Davies / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

  • Piette plays ahead of the CB's favoring and supporting Davies on the left. 
  • Kaye and/or Arfield alternating def/off duties
  • David playing just behind Cavallini
  • Hoilett joining the attack often, trident mode with Cav and David, with Kaye and Arfield picking up the pieces and providing the second wave.
  • Eustaquio - I'll wait to see how is return goes, knee injuries are not easy to come back from.
  • USA wouldn't dare play arrogant with those threats just waiting to pounce and counter attack

 

The other option for the home game is to go for broke, Conte style, and just go nuts with a 4-2-4:

Davies / Cavallini / David / Hoilett

--------------Arfield / Kaye

Miller / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

And then bunker down, park the bus for the away game.

Why are you proposing formations we are not going to see? If this is just a fantasy discussion or what you would do if you were coaching, then proceed I guess.

For a realistic conversation about what our line up may look like, we should stick to the 4-3-3 offense/4-2-3-1 defense we have seen under Herdman. There is absolutely no indication we are going to play some Conte formation, out of the blue, in the biggest game for 10-15 years.

Do you know what this is? This is people desperately trying to create the most offensive front 6 possible, disregarding the need to have a balance of players.

We can't have a front 6 void of any defensive players. We can't lack that balance. Sorry, but that is a short-sighted pipe dream. I don't mean to target you directly, I am just getting tired of reading these proposed lineups with no Hutchinson or Piette or Eustaquio in the front 6. It's just not realistic.

Maybe I am wrong and Herdman trots out a front 6 of Davies, David, Hoilett, Cavallini, Kaye and Arfield. Goes for broke, as you say....

But I would bet money that one of Piette, Hutchinson, Johnson, Teibert or Eustaquio are going to provide a defensive midfield option, if healthy and selected for the team. Basically, I can't see us not playing with a defensive-minded midfielder. I just can't. 

And no, Arfield and Kaye are not defensive-minded midfielders.

Edited by Obinna

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1 hour ago, costarg said:

Quite some time has passed since the Gold Cup, and we've all had time to reflect and digest some of the decisions and results.  I see things very differently from pre-GC and even post-GC.  Just wanna throw this out there and get some feedback, I can't be the only one, bear with me….

Going into the US match, we all know what and where our weakest link is.  The US knows that too.  They'll be driving it up our left side with Pulisic all day and night.  We'll find ourselves behind before Davies, Cavallini, David and Hoilett are even warmed up.

Now, if Bayern f'in Munich think Davies might be a solution at LB, who are we as Canadian soccer fans - who haven't even smelled or seen success in 30 years - to even question that?  We're a 16 year old rich kid who wants to drive his Ferrari before having gotten his drivers permit, just wants to drive it without understanding what he's actually got.   The Ferrari in this case, is not just Davies, but the combination of Davies, Cavallini, David, Hoilett, Kaye, Arfield, etc……

I've seen people on here are propose starting vs the US with everything from Arfield, Kaye, Hutch, Cavallini, Hoilett, etc… on the bench.  That’s just insane.  Our top 6 can play vs the best of CONCACAF and even the US, we need to have them all on the field, none of this super-sub ********.  We're severely lacking quality, experience and just general soccer instinct at the back.  The two games vs the US will define our path to Qatar.  The idea of putting our best 11 on the field isn't such a bad one in this case.  We'll have time (2 years) to develop Miller into our starting LB if we do well vs the US. 

If playing Davies at LW means we have to play David at RW and Hoilett sees the bench, it doesn't seem so dumb to play Davies at LB when Bayern f'in Munich seems to think he's doing well there.

Call it what you want, but on the heat map, this is what I want to see

------------Cavallini

--------------David

----Hoilett /Kaye / Arfield

------Piette

Davies / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

  • Piette plays ahead of the CB's favoring and supporting Davies on the left. 
  • Kaye and/or Arfield alternating def/off duties
  • David playing just behind Cavallini
  • Hoilett joining the attack often, trident mode with Cav and David, with Kaye and Arfield picking up the pieces and providing the second wave.
  • Eustaquio - I'll wait to see how is return goes, knee injuries are not easy to come back from.
  • USA wouldn't dare play arrogant with those threats just waiting to pounce and counter attack

 

The other option for the home game is to go for broke, Conte style, and just go nuts with a 4-2-4:

Davies / Cavallini / David / Hoilett

--------------Arfield / Kaye

Miller / Cornelius / Vitoria / Laryea

 

And then bunker down, park the bus for the away game.

It's not our job to play Davies as a LB. He's not gonna play LB once every 2 months with Canada then just "get it". He needs consistent minutes with Bayern for that. They can try to convert him all they like, but as of now, he is not a lb TODAY. So we have no reason to be playing a winger in a position he can't play.

Bayern are already playing him as a winger multiple times this season so I'm not even sure if they're even fully committed at this point.

 

The suggestions of starting every single attacking player, regardless of the position they play just for the sake of having them on the field is amateurish to be honest. you need balance, you can't force these things. Someone has to sit down. It's a good thing to have a really good bench option. Davies can't play LB, David isn't as effective on the wing imo, Arfield certainly can't take that defensive role (or asking him to drift wide), Hoilett sitting back deep isn't logical... both of those lineups aren't even using the players to their best strengths. We would be handicapping ourselves if we ask players to play in positions and roles they can't even play in.

Edited by Colliedor

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If the US are going to press our back 4 at BMO there is only 1 player I trust at CDM and that is Hutch. There's a reason he is called Octopus by Besiktas fans....he can protect the ball with a player draped over him...and can play through the high press. Piette is a great tackler but not the best on the ball. Eustaquio if fit could probably do the job. This is assuming Atiba is fit in the first place. 

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52 minutes ago, Big_M said:

kaye played at dm multiple times with lafc

Yes, but he's not a defensive-minded player. Can he do a job there? Probably, but I doubt he can do a better job for the team than Piette or Hutchinson (and probably Eustaquio). 

The box-to-box Kaye that we know and love is not going to play that way if he's tasked with sitting in front of and protecting the back 4.

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32 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

If the US are going to press our back 4 at BMO there is only 1 player I trust at CDM and that is Hutch. There's a reason he is called Octopus by Besiktas fans....he can protect the ball with a player draped over him...and can play through the high press. Piette is a great tackler but not the best on the ball. Eustaquio if fit could probably do the job. This is assuming Atiba is fit in the first place. 

I see it the same way, though perhaps I trust Piette in posession more than you, by the sounds of it. I have my doubts Hutchinson will be fit and available, but if so I think he is our best choice. If not, I am confident Piette will do Piette things.

Except for a random weak back pass on occasion, he is extremely consistent.

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@costarg

Re: Davies at LB for Bayern comments...

Let's not forget his job at LB at Bayern is much easier considering all the players around him are world class. 

I don't think we can simply say we should play him there for Canada because Bayern do play him there (sometimes). 

Two very different teams with different circumstances and priorities.

Not saying we absolutely shouldn't though. I just wouldn't use the Bayern thing as a reason.

Edited by Obinna

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5 hours ago, king1010 said:

Was this kind of what Herdman was trying to do against Haiti up 2-1 when he replaced Osorio with a not 100% Kaye? This left us with two defensive minded mids in Kaye and Hutch. At least more defensive than Osorio and Hutch. 

That change didn't really work out for us. Really killed our linkage in the mid. 😥

Maybe the change just wan't implemented properly. I'm just cautious given how that played out for us last time. 

You are correct about the sub , but for some reason Herdman switched the formation late to a 4-1-4-1 vs Haiti. Might look good on paper but 1 guy in the #6 for us, as we all know, was an utter disaster. There are a few articles written about that formation change vs Haiti. (Friendlies are important)

Aside:

In my opinion, our backline simply isn't strong enough to line up with 1 defensive mid.

In my opinion, we need to stick to what's been working, a 4-3-3 that defends in a 4-4-2 or roll out a 4-2-3-1 from the start. 

When we defended vs Cuba the 2 defensive mids were Piette & Kaye.  They looked superb alongside each other. Unfortunately it was only Cuba though. 

Maybe one day when our backline gets stronger we can line up with 1 guy in the hole.

Edited by apbsmith
Aside

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12 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

 

Bulletin board material.  Hope the American players underestimate us as much as some of their press.

 

That's such an ignorant thing to say especially considering the current state of the USMNT. I'm hoping the boys know this is how the competition(at least the press) feels before we play them. Very American thought process

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27 minutes ago, JuicyHam said:

That's such an ignorant thing to say especially considering the current state of the USMNT. I'm hoping the boys know this is how the competition(at least the press) feels before we play them. Very American thought process

If I were Herdman I would get an a large banner with that quote of "regional also-rans" printed on it only with a large question mark after it on the wall of the dressing room pre-match in Toronto. Drop the TedTalk Speech and tell them to let their performance be their unified response.

Edited by nolando

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7 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Bulletin board material.  Hope the American players underestimate us as much as some of their press.

Very useful. 

But to be fair, we have yet to prove that we are not.  We know how good we can be because we pay very close attention to our players and we are definitely at the top of the "also-rans," smashing the others in that group.  We do need to take another big step if you look at the actual meaning of the phrase.  

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