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Olympique_de_Marseille

Cuba vs Canada (on Grand Cayman island) Tuesday, Sept 10th - 7:15pm EST

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30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It will be interesting to see who starts next match.

I like the rhythm in the team when Piette Kaye, Osorio and Hoilett play together. I think Arfield can play in that rhythm as well, but I wouldn't be against bringing him off the bench. I also wouldn't mind keeping Cavallini in reserve and playing David as a no.9.

However, I also think David is better on the wing than he showed last night. He plays better on the wing when he has players to combine with - and on the counter he is particular effective.

I think it will come down to whether it's more important to play with Cavallini or Hoilett. To play without the latter is to sacrifice some creativity, which means Osorio is more necessary, but Arfield can perhaps do the job Osorio does?

We have a serious logjam in the front six.  How do you decide between Davies, David, Cavallini, Hoilett, Arfield, Osorio, Kaye, and Piette?  Eight players vying for six spots.  And that's not even counting guys that are just on the fringe like Millar and Eustaquio (who I'm not completely sold on yet).

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1 hour ago, costarg said:

Yes ok, but Cordova has and can play on the left.  That was always the intention.  We needed to see if he's better than Adekugbe & Miller at the moment.  MIller probably passes him in 2-3 years, but we needed to find our best option vs the USA.

Maybe Cordova himself needed to show Herdman that he belonged in the starting lineup ahead of Laryea or Adekugbe or Miller in the camp leading up to the first game?

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4 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

We have a serious logjam in the front six.  How do you decide between Davies, David, Cavallini, Hoilett, Arfield, Osorio, Kaye, and Piette?  Eight players vying for six spots.  And that's not even counting guys that are just on the fringe like Millar and Eustaquio (who I'm not completely sold on yet).

In some cases by anticipating where you will hurt the most by taking advantage of their weakest positions. For me their weakest position is (ironically) also our weakest, in left back. They tend to use Tim Ream or Daniel Lovitz. Neither are the greatest at 1 v. 1 defending (Laryea gave Lovitz fits when he came on late the last time TFC played Montreal) so I think you want to play your best 1 v. 1 attackers/dribblers on the wings. Which to mean doesn't mean that David plays on the wing. But then I don't think the Americans will fancy playing against Cavallini either, so that brings us back to a dilemma, albeit a nice one to have. I just hope everyone is healthy, particularly at the back where we are thin and thinner still with Henry suspended.

I have to say though that I am looking forward to this US match more than I have for a long, long time. Herdman's been waiting 10-15 years, I've been waiting longer - it's been over 20 years since we last played them at home in a meaningful match.

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I think Piette has to play and I didn't think I would be saying that. Unless Eustaquio is a revelation and Hutchinson is fit and in form and not covering for Henry (a lot of if's), it has to be Piette.

Considering the above, I would say Piette as the 6 is highly likely.

That leaves the dual 8 spots. 3 players for 2 spots. As good and versatile as Arfield is, it's very hard to drop Osorio or Kaye. Both may have an extra motivation considering the opponent.

I also trust Arfield more to come on and find a solution than the other two because he is a more mature and experienced player. 

Perhaps the away fixture is where you want Arfield to start, but at BMO I think I would go with the Toronto boys.

Edited by Obinna

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6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think Piette has to play and I didn't think I would be saying that. Unless Eustaquio is a revelation and Hutchinson is fit and in form and not covering for Henry (a lot of if's), it has to be Piette.

Considering the above, I would say Piette as the 6 is highly likely.

That leaves the dual 8 spots. 3 players for 2 spots. As good and versatile as Arfield is, it's very hard to drop Osorio or Kaye. Both may have an extra motivation considering the opponent.

I also trust Arfield more to come on and find a solution than the other two because he is a more mature and experienced player. 

Perhaps the away fixture is where you want Arfield to start, but at BMO I think I would go with the Toronto boys.

Insofar as this is true, I think it suggests he start rather than have him in the bench. I would rather the “solutions” guy solve the puzzle over 90 minutes than come in and try to salvage things in the last 20. 

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I meant to note that Miller was quite good coming on for Davies. Great energy, willingness to drive forward, clean passing etc.  I feel he is going to develop into a very nice footballer. He's got the tools and the brains and the heart. He's just got to keep working his ass off with his club. Will be interesting to see if some of the really young guys leap-frog Miller, but it would take Davies-like talent and athleticism to do so.  

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I think Piette has to play and I didn't think I would be saying that. Unless Eustaquio is a revelation and Hutchinson is fit and in form and not covering for Henry (a lot of if's), it has to be Piette.

Considering the above, I would say Piette as the 6 is highly likely.

That leaves the dual 8 spots. 3 players for 2 spots. As good and versatile as Arfield is, it's very hard to drop Osorio or Kaye. Both may have an extra motivation considering the opponent.

I also trust Arfield more to come on and find a solution than the other two because he is a more mature and experienced player. 

Perhaps the away fixture is where you want Arfield to start, but at BMO I think I would go with the Toronto boys.

If its between the 3 you mentioned, I don't see how Arfield is the odd man out. It's Osorio for me all day. Oso would come on as a sub IMO. 

If Arfield can find the solutions he should be there from minute 1. 

Edited by king1010

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12 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

I have a feeling when we play in central America for real, Herdman will literally **** his pants. Hope I'm wrong.

You mean, as a conditioning exercise???

 

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22 minutes ago, Alex said:

In my opinion it has to be:

Davies and Hoilett on the wings, David and Cavallini up front then Arfield and one of Osorio/Kaye/Piette in the middle. 

Agreed, its gotta be 4-4-2 vs the USA in order to have our best players on the field at the right places.

4-3-3 does not suit our best 11 - we get odd man out scenarios or people playing at the wrong place.

4-2-3-1 forces us to play guys out of position

David needs to play a central role, we're wasting him out wide

LB is still a huge question mark - we needed to see Cordova - at this point I guess I stick with Miller, he's got the most longterm potential. 

Larin needs to stay in Belgium until he proves otherwise.  CANMNT shouldn't need to save his career, seems like thats what we're trying to do.  He hasn't earned a start in 2 years.

Henry needs therapy - he's got the athleticism and instinct.

 

-------Cavallini - David

Davies - Kaye - Arfield - Hoilett

Miller/Adekugbe - Cornelius - Vitoria - Laryea

 

Unless we wanna go ultra-defensive:

-------Cavallini - David

Davies / Kaye / Piette / Arfield / Laryea

-----Miller / Vitoria / Cornelius

 

*Hoilett super-sub

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Vancouver Fan said:

Actually I have seen the U.S. play in CONCACAF and although they haven't been great I still stand by my statement. Americans are good at running the score up on minnows whether we're talking men or ladies teams. 

US national team gets regularly stifled by crappy Caribbean opponents to. Nothing to see here imo.

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7 minutes ago, costarg said:

Agreed, its gotta be 4-4-2 vs the USA in order to have our best players on the field at the right places.4-3-3 does not suit our best 11 - we get odd man out scenarios or people playing at the wrong place.

4-2-3-1 forces us to play guys out of position

David needs to play a central role, we're wasting him out wide

LB is still a huge question mark - we needed to see Cordova - at this point I guess I stick with Miller, he's got the most longterm potential. 

Larin needs to stay in Belgium until he proves otherwise.  CANMNT shouldn't need to save his career, seems like thats what we're trying to do.  He hasn't earned a start in 2 years.

Henry needs therapy - he's got the athleticism and instinct.

Man, you are quick to throw guys out.  As of a year ago, Cavallini or David had never scored for the CMNT.  David was still a gleam in the youth program.  Who was getting the starts upfront before that, you dont think Larin had earned them??  Until we have some more strikers of that caliber, you cant dismiss a guy like that.  We are one red card, one tight hamstring away from david/Cavallini and.....crickets.  

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38 minutes ago, costarg said:

 

1 hour ago, Alex said:

In my opinion it has to be:

Davies and Hoilett on the wings, David and Cavallini up front then Arfield and one of Osorio/Kaye/Piette in the middle. 

Agreed, its gotta be 4-4-2 vs the USA in order to have our best players on the field at the right places.

4-3-3 does not suit our best 11 - we get odd man out scenarios or people playing at the wrong place.

4-2-3-1 forces us to play guys out of position

David needs to play a central role, we're wasting him out wide

LB is still a huge question mark - we needed to see Cordova - at this point I guess I stick with Miller, he's got the most longterm potential. 

Larin needs to stay in Belgium until he proves otherwise.  CANMNT shouldn't need to save his career, seems like thats what we're trying to do.  He hasn't earned a start in 2 years.

Henry needs therapy - he's got the athleticism and instinct.

 

-------Cavallini - David

Davies - Kaye - Arfield - Hoilett

Miller/Adekugbe - Cornelius - Vitoria - Laryea

 

The first lineup here is spot on for me. The question here is at left back. Didn’t get to watch the away game, but in the home leg, Miller didn’t do it for me. Bad passes, didn’t look comfortable. I know this might be me being pie in the sky, but Atiba has played a fair portion of his career at RB. You think playing LB would be asking to much of him? I thought in the big games against Mexico and Haiti, he was on of best players. So calm, and always makes the right decision 

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10 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Man, you are quick to throw guys out.  As of a year ago, Cavallini or David had never scored for the CMNT.  David was still a gleam in the youth program.  Who was getting the starts upfront before that, you dont think Larin had earned them??  Until we have some more strikers of that caliber, you cant dismiss a guy like that.  We are one red card, one tight hamstring away from david/Cavallini and.....crickets.  

With all due respect, Akindele has 9 goals since March, he's a proven goal scorer.  Davies can fill the net from the left, Hoilett can also do that from the right.  Liam Millar is also a striker.  I hate to sound arrogant, but this ain't CANMNT 2016, we have guys that know how to find the net.

Larin has proven, beyond doubt, that he can't hit a target at the moment.  Like I said, we don't owe him anything, CANMNT needs to play their best 11, not try to help players get their careers on track.

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10 minutes ago, costarg said:

With all due respect, Akindele has 9 goals since March, he's a proven goal scorer.  Davies can fill the net from the left, Hoilett can also do that from the right.  Liam Millar is also a striker.  I hate to sound arrogant, but this ain't CANMNT 2016, we have guys that know how to find the net.

Larin has proven, beyond doubt, that he can't hit a target at the moment.  Like I said, we don't owe him anything, CANMNT needs to play their best 11, not try to help players get their careers on track.

I don't think anybody is advocating for Larin in the best 11. Maybe best 23, but I get your point about him not producing for the NT, though I do recognize he has been contributing in other ways for his club team early in the season. If Akindele is chosen over Larin, I wouldn't be heartbroken over it, though I still think there could be use for him in the 23. 

 

Edited by king1010

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14 minutes ago, costarg said:

With all due respect, Akindele has 9 goals since March, he's a proven goal scorer.  Davies can fill the net from the left, Hoilett can also do that from the right.  Liam Millar is also a striker.  I hate to sound arrogant, but this ain't CANMNT 2016, we have guys that know how to find the net.

Larin has proven, beyond doubt, that he can't hit a target at the moment.  Like I said, we don't owe him anything, CANMNT needs to play their best 11, not try to help players get their careers on track.

So you are going to put Hoilett, Davies or Millar at striker??  Who leads the line?? Seriously its Cav, David (thats still debateable) then  Akindele.......??  Who is after that??  Rickets..Ocean...AJH...By all means, continue sounding arrogant, but dont exaggerate.  The midfield is bountiful, so good that we are shoe horning them in all over the park to get them in the 11, striker is good, but thin, CB options are bad, and FB are very young and unproven. We are not doiing larin favors...he is still 3-4th option up front, and if Cavallini isnt in camp, he'll still see the pitch.  

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                   Cav

Davies     David      Hoilett

                 2 mids

            4 at the back 

That's who I want starting vs USA at home, if no Cav, you push David up top and put Arfield or Oso there.

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I preface this by saying we are probably all biased a bit towards the players we see more regularly.

Now some of the reason is that it is in the Belgian League but having Jonathan David behind him is making Laurent Depoitre, who I consider a mediocre striker, look very good so far this year.  And some of that was in Europa League qualifying which can be similar to CONCACAF minnow-fighting in term of bad grounds, bad crowds and it being a hackfest. 

That was the reason I wanted to see David behind Larin earlier this morning.  Strikers of course have to score goals at the end of the day and Larin has yet to do that in Belgium.  He is however, doing well enough to continue to start in the same lineup as his team's exciting new signing Saido Berahino, and Larin has helped make at least a couple goals for him.  After a rough start Zulte Waregem have kept faith with him, he has played every minute in the league and has 3 assists.    

I did not want to see David on the wing, he is fine there at this level, I guess, but he is a better passer than a crosser and being central at least  allows him to make late runs with the goal in front of him, which makes better use of his finishing. 

That all said, barring injuries or some mighty reversals of form in the next month, the time for changes is done. 

You can't play two up top against a better or similar team, in my opinion; opposing managers know how to exploit that.

So for me you have: 

Davies, David, Hoilett

             Arfield

and then you start making decisions.  

(Borjan, Vitoria, Cornelius and Laryea  as well but not my focus.)

Again some familiarity bias there but I think those are our best players playing where they can be nearest to their best.

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@king1010 @dyslexic nam

Re: Arfield from the bench..

To be clear, I think Arfield is a better player than Kaye and Osorio.

I also wonder if Kaye and Osorio play better together than with Arfield?

Kaye-Oso were very, very good in the last home match. I suspect that together they are better than the sum of their parts...

Yes, in general you want the player with more solutions to start, but I am kinda hoping we can keep one of them as a secret weapon. I mean, one of them has to sit and all 3 are very good players, right? Maybe we can take them by surprise, somehow, with bringing Arfield on. 

Or, maybe we start Arfield and show all our best cards from the beginning? Take them from surprise from the get-go.

I bet GB is more familiar with Kaye and Osorio than Arfield, though game video must be easy to come by. All of our players will be scouted ahead of this match.

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57 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So you are going to put Hoilett, Davies or Millar at striker??  Who leads the line?? Seriously its Cav, David (thats still debateable) then  Akindele.......??  Who is after that??  Rickets..Ocean...AJH...By all means, continue sounding arrogant, but dont exaggerate.  The midfield is bountiful, so good that we are shoe horning them in all over the park to get them in the 11, striker is good, but thin, CB options are bad, and FB are very young and unproven. We are not doiing larin favors...he is still 3-4th option up front, and if Cavallini isnt in camp, he'll still see the pitch.  

I didn't say i'd put Hoilett and Davies at striker.  You seemed to ask where the goals would come from and i said, they're capable of putting them in from the wings.

As for #9 pecking order, we play one man up top and you're worried about who our forth is?  This is what i got: 

1. Cavallini

2. David

3. Akindele

4. Millar

I hope Larin finds a way out of his slump and proves me wrong, but he's produced very little the past two years.

 

Peace man.

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Larin was seen as a knight in shining armour when he arrived.  Most on here including me were very hopeful that he would be a major part of the squad and light it up.  But he has done next to nothing  lately at club or country.  We are getting to the point, at least in the middle and up front, where you need to be in good form in a half decent league just to be in the running to start/play. Larin is now playing but is not in great form. Hopefully he gets his touch back but like costarg posted above, he is 4th or 5th right now.

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3 hours ago, Obinna said:

@king1010 @dyslexic nam

Re: Arfield from the bench..

To be clear, I think Arfield is a better player than Kaye and Osorio.

I also wonder if Kaye and Osorio play better together than with Arfield?

Kaye-Oso were very, very good in the last home match. I suspect that together they are better than the sum of their parts...

 

Its too bad we havnt played more games for Herdman to work out some combos that might work better than others in different situations.  That kind of stuff probably only shows up under game conditions. But its a nice option to have that we can actually talk about who plays better with who instead of, we only have these 4 MF guys that the coach dares to play.  

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