Gold Cup 2021

[canadasoccer20]

Also excited to see Ayo in action! At 21 we may see him and David as a duo for years to come including possibly the 2026 World Cup starting forwards...

[Blackjack15]

Why Pasher over Akindele? 

[archer21]

59 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

But that's the issue here - we don't use wingers in a 3-5-2.

I’m not too worried about that. Corbeanu can probably play striker, wingback, or CAM in a 3-5-2 technically, or come off the bench if we move to a 3-4-3 like we often did in the last couple qualifiers. Herdman has shown that he’s willing to change formations based on the opponent and game plan as well, so I don’t think it’s a lock that we necessarily play 3 at the back every match.

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

Why Pasher over Akindele? 

Different positions? Akinola's inclusion probably pushed Akindele out

[archer21]

44 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Read the Wheeler tweet, he was 22 when he got his first cap for England. He’s not eligible and never will be unless there’s another FIFA rule change. 

He was 21, but yes that would still make him ineligible if the game had been after Sept 2020. The new clause seems to say that he would be eligible to switch 3 years after his last cap, since the age of the player only comes into account in games since Sept 2020. It’s so odd that Herdman and Wheeler are saying he is ineligible. I’m not sure if :

a) we’re not interpreting this rule properly or there’s some other clause somewhere we don’t know about that makes him ineligible

b) Herdman is being sly and just saying he’s “ineligible” because he technically is right now, but will become eligible in 2022, or 

c) Herdman is flat out wrong and doesn’t know that the 21 year old cut off doesn’t apply to Tomori

[Obinna]

Solid selection overall. Here are some thoughts:

- Disappointed by no Brault-Guillard. 

- More disappointed by no Baldisimo

- Most disappointed by no Guitierrez

- Happy for Ayo, obviously.

- Okay with David skipping the tournament.

- Corbeanu is a surprise. I expect him as a substitue up top instead of a wingback.

- No Akindele is harsh, but expected.

- Good to get Pasher and Paton involved.

- Starting lineup from WCQ should basically be the same, minus David and Borjan. Great for building continuity.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Obinna

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

49 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

The FIFA amendment on age 21 only applies to games after September 2020.  Kristian Jack was talking about it on one of the broadcasts a few weeks ago.

If Tomori never features again for England he will become eligible for Canada again right before the World Cup.  There was this little crack in the universe that he falls through apparently.
 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Yes - they cleared El Munir to switch from Spain to Morocco with the same logic. Tomori will be able to switch in November 2022 if he doesn’t play another match for England 

Once again, Munir played U21 matches after age 21. Not senior team matches. Tomori will never be eligible.

[frmr]

The group stage game against the US will be huge. If we're able to win our group we will be on the opposite side of the bracket as group A winners (Mexico, likely). We'll be playing one of Costa Rica/Jamaica/Suriname and then likely one of Honduras or Qatar in the semis. If we can win the group we have a pretty decent path to the final which will likely be against Mexico. It's definitely a winnable tournament and there's no reason we shouldn't be able to reach the final. Will be interesting to see how our A-/B+ team matches up against a B/C American side.

If David was in the squad I would like our chances to win. I don't know if we could beat Mexico without him though.

[Gian-Luca]

41 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

Why Pasher over Akindele? 

I think its Pasher over Liam Millar (who probably had to drop out anyway given the club move) and the likes of Raheem Edwards (who I am still surprised didn't even make the 60 man list). Akindele I think loses out from the inclusion of Akinola. I am actually a bit surprised that Larin (who like David, is also going to the Champions League) is on the roster, was expecting Cav-Ak-Ak (which I know sounds a character from the Creature cantina from Star Wars trying to unclog his nose) as the three target strikers for this tourney, but with Larin coming as well and the need to start getting Ayo integrated, I can see why Akindele misses out.

Also a bit surprised that Corbeanu is on the team given that he is trying to establish himself with Wolves, and didn't think we'd see Hoilet but maybe he's using this tourney to shop himself.

Now, let's hope that the opposition doesn't try to hack some of our key players to death the way Haiti did with Davies in the WCQ....

[archer21]

33 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

 

Once again, Munir played U21 matches after age 21. Not senior team matches. Tomori will never be eligible.

From Article 9 on FIFA eligibility rules (change of association):

2. A request to change association may be granted only in the following circumstances:

c) the player:
i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association;
ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition (at any level) in any kind of football for his current association, he held the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;
iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old;
iv) was fielded in no more than three matches at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition:
v) at least three years have passed since being fielded for his last match at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non- official competition; and
vi) has never participated in any kind of football at “A” international level in the final tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a final tournament of a confederation competition.

Specifically, iii) is the part that is in question.

From further down in Article 9:

73. Considering the principle of legal certainty, the age requirement (“he had not turned 21 years old”) shall not apply to players who played their last match in an official competition in any kind of football for their current association prior to 18 September 2020, the date that the September 2020 amendments entered into force

Just by this, I don’t see a difference between Munir and Tomori. Both are eligible to switch based on 2) c) assuming the age requirement doesn’t apply because their last match in an official competition in “any kind of football” was before Sept 2020. Like I said, there could be something I’m missing though somewhere else in the rules. 
 

For those who didn’t know the Munir difference that OdM is talking about (I didn’t before looking it up), Munir played for Spain Sr team before turning 21 but then played U21 after turning 21 so there is a difference. I just don’t see in the rules why that matters.
 

 

PS as an aside, I was surprised to read 5) which states:

 A player that was:
a) granted a change of association; and
b) was not fielded in a match in any (official or unofficial) competition in any kind of football by the new association,
may request a change of association back to his former association provided he continues to hold the nationality of such association.

So technically, Ayo can switch back to USA as long as he doesn’t play a match for us. This is opposite of what I’ve read on this forum forever.

Edited July 1, 2021 by archer21

[Floortom]

4 minutes ago, archer21 said:

From Article 9 on FIFA eligibility rules (change of association):

2. A request to change association may be granted only in the following circumstances:

c) the player:
i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association;
ii) at the time of being fielded for his first match in an official competition (at any level) in any kind of football for his current association, he held the nationality of the association which he wishes to represent;
iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official competition in any kind of football for his current association, he had not turned 21 years old;
iv) was fielded in no more than three matches at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition:
v) at least three years have passed since being fielded for his last match at “A” international level in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non- official competition; and
vi) has never participated in any kind of football at “A” international level in the final tournament of the FIFA World Cup or a final tournament of a confederation competition.

Specifically, iii) is the part that is in question.

From further down in Article 9:

73. Considering the principle of legal certainty, the age requirement (“he had not turned 21 years old”) shall not apply to players who played their last match in an official competition in any kind of football for their current association prior to 18 September 2020, the date that the September 2020 amendments entered into force

Just by this, I don’t see a difference between Munir and Tomori. Both are eligible to switch based on 2) c) assuming the age requirement doesn’t apply because their last match in an official competition in “any kind of football” was before Sept 2020. Like I said, there could be something I’m missing though somewhere else in the rules. 
 

For those who didn’t know the Munir difference that OdM is talking about (I didn’t before looking it up), Munir played for Spain Sr team before turning 21 but then played U21 after turning 21 so there is a difference. I just don’t see in the rules why that matters.
 

 

PS as an aside, I was surprised to read 5) which states:

 A player that was:
a) granted a change of association; and
b) was not fielded in a match in any (official or unofficial) competition in any kind of football by the new association,
may request a change of association back to his former association provided he continues to hold the nationality of such association.

So technically, Ayo can switch back to USA as long as he doesn’t play a match for us. This is opposite of what I’ve read on this forum forever.

Precisely - the 21 year age distinction is irrelevant as the rule came into effect after they played that potentially cap-tying match. This was explicitly part of FIFA’s logic 

[Obinna]

A lot of Americans have been calling it a B/C team, or even a C team, but is that disingenuious of them?

- Dike is the talk of the town for them, projected by many to overtake Sargent for the no.9 spot, so he's gotta be an A level player for them.

- Reggie Cannon has consistently been in their A selections.

- Zardes is unpopular but has been in many of their A selections, much to fan displeasure. Let's say he's an A/B player.

- Also unpopular but used regularly in A selections have been Lleget, Yuiell and lately Acosta, so A/B.

- Arriola, Roldan, Robinson and Guzan are solidly B players at this point.

- Hoppe is probably a B player, with the potential to be an A.

- Lewis is a B/C

- Everyone else is probably either B/C or C for the uncapped guys.

So yeah MAYBE it is fair to call them a B/C team, but definitily not a C team. -B/+C team?

I agree we are an -A/+B team though.

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, Blackjack15 said:

Why Pasher over Akindele? 

Pasher can slot in on both wings, very active with crosses and runs, finding space and creating for himself.  As much as I like Akindele (which is a lot) he is more of a regular forward, poacher, finisher, which we would have with CAV, Larin, Akinola.  More of a need on the wing creating stuff for the forwards to cash in on.  Plus he is still relatively young and needs to get involved as he is doing so well in Houston.  Who knows how far up he goes??  Might be on a MAK trajectory.  

[lamptern]

It looks like I am going to spend my Canada Day refreshing this thread.

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, lamptern said:

It looks like I am going to spend my Canada Day refreshing this thread.

You have described my day so far.  

[narduch]

22 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

I think its Pasher over Liam Millar (who probably had to drop out anyway given the club move) and the likes of Raheem Edwards (who I am still surprised didn't even make the 60 man list). Akindele I think loses out from the inclusion of Akinola. I am actually a bit surprised that Larin (who like David, is also going to the Champions League) is on the roster, was expecting Cav-Ak-Ak (which I know sounds a character from the Creature cantina from Star Wars trying to unclog his nose) as the three target strikers for this tourney, but with Larin coming as well and the need to start getting Ayo integrated, I can see why Akindele misses out.

Also a bit surprised that Corbeanu is on the team given that he is trying to establish himself with Wolves, and didn't think we'd see Hoilet but maybe he's using this tourney to shop himself.

Now, let's hope that the opposition doesn't try to hack some of our key players to death the way Haiti did with Davies in the WCQ....

The Turkish League starts 1 week later than France. And Besiktas is already in the Group stage. That may explain why Larin didn't mind coming. 

Besides news did come out today that David actually had a groin injury in the last window and wants more time to recover 

[lamptern]

Addicted to the expectation of our CMNT to build up for WCQ while having a shot to achieve something special in this Gold Cup!

1. Bottom line: advance to quater final 

2. Like to see: beat USA B squad

3. Dream: meet Mexico in final

Edited July 1, 2021 by lamptern

[Stryker911]

Akindele is currently 7th in the MLS in goals+assists, ZBG and Gutierrez have been on MLS team of the week, a couple times for ZBG. We couldn't fit them in our 23 man squad. It wasn't that long ago (2017) being an MLS sub or good USL/NASL player made this team.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Stryker911

[CanadaFan123]

7 minutes ago, lamptern said:

Addicted to the expectation of our CMNT to build up for WCQ while having a shot to achieve something special in this Gold Cup!

1. Bottom line: advance to quater final 

2. Like to see: beat USA B squad

3. Dream: meet Mexico in final

The minimum expectation is a semi final. Anything less is a failure IMO.

[Cheeta]

25 minutes ago, lamptern said:

It looks like I am going to spend my Canada Day refreshing this thread.

Lucky bugger.

[lamptern]

15 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The minimum expectation is a semi final. Anything less is a failure IMO.

I am with you on that. 

Beat USA and grab 1st place in group is the key here. So... That's my 'like to see'.  😇. Let me upgrade my vision a little bit:

1. Bottom line: advance to semi final 

2. Like to see: beat USA B squad and whoever in quater final to show our competing consistancy (which is critical to upcoming WCQ)

3. Dream: meet Mexico in final. (I know....but I haven't had a dream better than that YET.  Will be in heaven if I could stretch it furthermore)

Edited July 1, 2021 by lamptern

[DavemTFC]

Putting Pasher at LWB looks like the logical move, but when's the last time he even played at full/wing-back? Seems he plays almost exclusively along the forward line these days (usually one of the wings but iirc he played centre forward as well in Indy). I have no doubts he'd transition seamlessly back into a more defensive role if he was asked to fwiw

I like the roster overall, and the omissions all make sense based on the reasons why they're out (injuries, club-level reps). Fraser over Baldisimo or even Priso is the only one that's a bit of a surprise, but tbh if Fraser gets a look at CB in a back three, it'll be worth it

[BrennanFan]

9 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The minimum expectation is a semi final. Anything less is a failure IMO.

Knockout Probabilities:

If we finish second in our group, we will face Jamaica or Costa Rica in the QF and Mexico in the Semi.

If we win our group, we will face Jamaica or Costa Rica in the QF and Honduras/Panama/El Salvador in the Semi.  

Edited July 1, 2021 by BrennanFan

[archer21]

9 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The minimum expectation is a semi final. Anything less is a failure IMO.

I mostly agree with this. I won’t be overly upset with a QF loss, just because I care so much more about WCQ at this point. I think the success/failure line should be SF though considering we need to be a top 3/4 nation to make the World Cup.

[frmr]

8 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Knockout Probabilities:

If we finish second in our group, we will face Jamaica or Costa Rica in the QF and Mexico in the Semi.

If we win our group, we will face Jamaica or Costa Rica in the QF and Honduras/Panama/El Salvador in the Semi.  

Qatar is ranked higher than El Salvador or Panama. I know absolutely nothing about them but I wouldn't be surprised if they are in the semis.