Gold Cup 2021

[dyslexic nam]

I was watching a bit of Argentina vs Chile yesterday when Aguero got subbed in and it got me thinking - for all those advocating a Canadian Gold Cup B squad so that our (relatively young) players can get some rest, how does that square up with the fact that elite players from Europe and South America are now involved in their own confederation championships. All of those folks recently finished playing full seasons of club footy and most were involved in some sort of European or South American club championships as well.  Aguero as an example played all season with Manchester City, participated in their full CL campaign, and is now playing for Argentina in the Copa.  Why is it that all of those guys - basically most of the elite players in the world - can handle playing in a highly competitive summer tournament, but our top guys cannot?

Given the benefits of having our core group play together for an extended period of time (fingers crossed, for Ocho prep), I still think this is the way to go - possibly with a few strategic additions of any high profile duals that want to accept a call right now (and if anything, the chance to play with the A team would likely be a much stronger incentive to them than the opportunity to commit their future by playing with a B team).  

[TGAA_Star]

45 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was watching a bit of Argentina vs Chile yesterday when Aguero got subbed in and it got me thinking - for all those advocating a Canadian Gold Cup B squad so that our (relatively young) players can get some rest, how does that square up with the fact that elite players from Europe and South America are now involved in their own confederation championships. All of those folks recently finished playing full seasons of club footy and most were involved in some sort of European or South American club championships as well.  Aguero as an example played all season with Manchester City, participated in their full CL campaign, and is now playing for Argentina in the Copa.  Why is it that all of those guys - basically most of the elite players in the world - can handle playing in a highly competitive summer tournament, but our top guys cannot?

Given the benefits of having our core group play together for an extended period of time (fingers crossed, for Ocho prep), I still think this is the way to go - possibly with a few strategic additions of any high profile duals that want to accept a call right now (and if anything, the chance to play with the A team would likely be a much stronger incentive to them than the opportunity to commit their future by playing with a B team).  

We should be using our A team for the Gold Cup period

[VinceA]

5 minutes ago, TGAA_Star said:

We should be using our A team for the Gold Cup period

lol no. Our A squad deserves rest and the last thing we need is their clubs becoming unhappy with them. Davies needs to impress Tuchel and David needs to sort out his own future.

At most the MLS guys could be a part of this and some Euro guys who weren't on this team Like Paton.

[VinceA]

52 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was watching a bit of Argentina vs Chile yesterday when Aguero got subbed in and it got me thinking - for all those advocating a Canadian Gold Cup B squad so that our (relatively young) players can get some rest, how does that square up with the fact that elite players from Europe and South America are now involved in their own confederation championships. All of those folks recently finished playing full seasons of club footy and most were involved in some sort of European or South American club championships as well.  Aguero as an example played all season with Manchester City, participated in their full CL campaign, and is now playing for Argentina in the Copa.  Why is it that all of those guys - basically most of the elite players in the world - can handle playing in a highly competitive summer tournament, but our top guys cannot?

Given the benefits of having our core group play together for an extended period of time (fingers crossed, for Ocho prep), I still think this is the way to go - possibly with a few strategic additions of any high profile duals that want to accept a call right now (and if anything, the chance to play with the A team would likely be a much stronger incentive to them than the opportunity to commit their future by playing with a B team).  

I think is is based on timing. The GC is in July which will contrast with pre-season for a number of clubs. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, VinceA said:

 Davies needs to impress Tuchel...

He better not impress the Chelsea manager too much.  Him going there would kill me.

[Obinna]

59 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was watching a bit of Argentina vs Chile yesterday when Aguero got subbed in and it got me thinking - for all those advocating a Canadian Gold Cup B squad so that our (relatively young) players can get some rest, how does that square up with the fact that elite players from Europe and South America are now involved in their own confederation championships. All of those folks recently finished playing full seasons of club footy and most were involved in some sort of European or South American club championships as well.  Aguero as an example played all season with Manchester City, participated in their full CL campaign, and is now playing for Argentina in the Copa.  Why is it that all of those guys - basically most of the elite players in the world - can handle playing in a highly competitive summer tournament, but our top guys cannot?

Given the benefits of having our core group play together for an extended period of time (fingers crossed, for Ocho prep), I still think this is the way to go - possibly with a few strategic additions of any high profile duals that want to accept a call right now (and if anything, the chance to play with the A team would likely be a much stronger incentive to them than the opportunity to commit their future by playing with a B team).  

Yup, as VinceA said. It's a timing thing. The tournament runs until late July/early Aug and European teams will be starting their pre-seasons close to that time, leaving players without a break.

If WCQ were not on the go in June, they could have rested then and essentially started their new season with the Gold Cup. That could have even benefitted some guys, because they would have reported to club pre-season in game shape.

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, VinceA said:

I think is is based on timing. The GC is in July which will contrast with pre-season for a number of clubs. 

I get the pre-season angle but I think it overstates things a bit.  Davies is one of the best young LBs in the world and David’s contribution to Lille’s title run is unquestionable.  Are they really going to be relegated to the bench because they participated in their federation championship?  Hoilett could use it to put himself in the shop window.  Tajon is already drawing attention from Europe so I doubt a strong GC run harms his prospects.  Etc.  
 

There may be specific cases where someone’s particular situation may warrant a conversation with Herdman - and I have no doubt that part of Herdman’s man-management philosophy would be to accommodate those that feel strongly they should be with their club.  But overall, I don’t think the rationale justifies a B squad given the benefits of having the core of our A team play a whole tournament together.  

[youllneverwalkalone]

This discussion is a huge Jinx, but I agree with A squad. We haven't had enough time together playing at level of the Ocho. This is the perfect prep. Let's discuss more 14 hours from now.

[Obinna]

Assuming a domestic squad for Gold Cup, my expectations are semi-finals. On the surface that may be expecting too much, but hear me out: 1) other teams are bringing B teams. 2) we have the best depth we have ever had. 3) we need to expect semi-final finishes in this tournament regularly if we want to be the 3rd best team in concacaf 4) failing to reach the semis, again, would not be a progression, it would be a stagnation.

Haven't looked at the bracket in a while, but if I recall correctly we can possibly play Qatar in the semis if we beat USA to win the group. Otherwise it's likely a semi against Mexico. We'd have to beat someone like Jamaica or Costa Rica to get to that point though, maybe even Suriname if they can sneak ahead of either. Again though, these are teams we need to beat regularly in the big games anyways, might as well set the tone for the Octagaon. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get the pre-season angle but I think it overstates things a bit...

I get some of things you are saying.  People like Hoilett (especially if he wants to put himself in the shop window) for sure.  But for me it is less about impressing your club and more about not really having a break at all for some players.  Last season was compressed and our big guns are playing in UEFA competitions, a least one cup and hopefully a full season in tough leagues.  And most importantly - internationals. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get the pre-season angle but I think it overstates things a bit.  Davies is one of the best young LBs in the world and David’s contribution to Lille’s title run is unquestionable.  Are they really going to be relegated to the bench because they participated in their federation championship?  Hoilett could use it to put himself in the shop window.  Tajon is already drawing attention from Europe so I doubt a strong GC run harms his prospects.  Etc.  
 

There may be specific cases where someone’s particular situation may warrant a conversation with Herdman - and I have no doubt that part of Herdman’s man-management philosophy would be to accommodate those that feel strongly they should be with their club.  But overall, I don’t think the rationale justifies a B squad given the benefits of having the core of our A team play a whole tournament together.  

Yeah I think you can handle each case-by-case and that'll probably happen, but Herdman will perhaps give guys a light push to stay, and if successful it would give our team an -A or +B feel. 

Still though, realistically I think David and Davies will return to Europe. It's not about their roles being in jepordy, it's about starting their club seasons on the right foot, and to do so they'll need to get refreshed to some degree. Larin may or may not move but I would put him in the same boat, for similar reasons. Tajon I think depends on if a move materializes before the Gold Cup. If so they may want him to come in early, but if not GC is another chance to boost his stock. Hoilett you may be right about. Probably better for him to put himself in the shop window or at minimum get some match sharpness. Eustaquio probably same situation as Larin.

I could keep going, but at best a lot of these are toss ups in my opinion. As such, I am going to expect none of them join and those who do just give us a bonus boost. We have lots of young domestic players too who could benefit from playing in the Gold Cup, especially if we want to lean on them in WCQ.

[ADP10]

Just noticed they changed that joke bracket format from the last Gold Cup to ensure Mexico and the USA was for the finals. Good on Concacaf

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

13 hours ago, canadianbacons said:

Provisional rosters were due to CONCACAF today.  Might see the US roster as early as tomorrow, but likely later this week.

I thought is was due Thursday last week. 30 days before.

Either way, I hope we see the lists.

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

But for me it is less about impressing your club and more about not really having a break at all for some players.  Last season was compressed and our big guns are playing in UEFA competitions, a least one cup and hopefully a full season in tough leagues.  And most importantly - internationals. 

I would be very surprised to see any of our UEFA competition guys at this Gold Cup.  That's a lot of football without a real break.  As mentioned by others here, a lot of player by player assessment wil probably happen, even some with MLS guys.

[VinceA]

5 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

He better not impress the Chelsea manager too much.  Him going there would kill me.

LOL i didn't even do a double take when i wrote it. I meant Nagelsmann lmaooo

[red card]

10 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I was watching a bit of Argentina vs Chile yesterday when Aguero got subbed in and it got me thinking - for all those advocating a Canadian Gold Cup B squad so that our (relatively young) players can get some rest, how does that square up with the fact that elite players from Europe and South America are now involved in their own confederation championships. All of those folks recently finished playing full seasons of club footy and most were involved in some sort of European or South American club championships as well.  Aguero as an example played all season with Manchester City, participated in their full CL campaign, and is now playing for Argentina in the Copa.  Why is it that all of those guys - basically most of the elite players in the world - can handle playing in a highly competitive summer tournament, but our top guys cannot?

Given the benefits of having our core group play together for an extended period of time (fingers crossed, for Ocho prep), I still think this is the way to go - possibly with a few strategic additions of any high profile duals that want to accept a call right now (and if anything, the chance to play with the A team would likely be a much stronger incentive to them than the opportunity to commit their future by playing with a B team).  

Aguero is not the best example - he barely played during the season, only played 90 mins once in May and played only 25% of Man City's CL minutes.

As others have mentioned, the Gold Cup got pushed back into encroaching European league pre-season training. Conmebol's scheduling was better as Copa America is only a week after 2 WCQ matches. So, easier to keep the players around and then after being eliminated, they can go on vacation for 3-5 weeks.

 

 

[Shway]

...Annd just when you thought we had enough! There’s more in a few weeks!

I hope we get to see some of the A team considering FIFA have to release the players.

[Ruud]

Maybe a hybrid. Full team for 2 games then off to camps for euro based players.  Remember they have 3 games during each fifa window.  That’s crazy. N

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, it is no longer a theoretical debate.  We either use the GC to bold some players into a B team or we use it to continue getting the A team firing on all cylinders in advance of the toughest test we have faced in decades (or some combo of the two).

The good news is that now we can start sniping at each other about our GC roster choices.  

[VinceA]

Apparently we get the 60-man rosters for the GC on Friday.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

8 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Apparently we get the 60-man rosters for the GC on Friday.

Source?

[toontownman]

I think good luck to the clubs trying to stop these players going to the Gold Cup, they are on a high, on a roll and United for the cause. 

I think there will be more A squad players than we were thinking a month or so ago. I am ok with resting though. We can make a statement at the Gold cup imo.

[Shway]

I suspect we’ll see Paton, Pasher, Elva, and Dias in that list.

Predicting the team will be impossible. I went back on a few 1 on 1 videos with Wheeler and JH...and he side stepped the question about players overlapping from WCQ to Gold Cup.

Where else was that mentioned about Canada having a B team? Or did some of us /journos make that up?

[VinceA]

11 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Source?

Jamaican reporter Simon Preston mentioned on youtube that he had spoken with a CONCACAF rep who said Friday. Apparently they were supposed to drop on Monday but not all teams had their lists in.

[Shway]

1 minute ago, toontownman said:

I think good luck to the clubs trying to stop these players going to the Gold Cup, they are on a high, on a roll and United for the cause. 

I think there will be more A squad players than we were thinking a month or so ago. I am ok with resting though. We can make a statement at the Gold cup imo.

It’s tough man. Davies, David...okay. Even Hutch and Arfield. But look:

First we got the TFC, and Whitecaps potential roster issues with Laryea, Osorio, Akinola(?), Priso, Shaffelburg, Singh, Okello, Nelson, Marshall-Rutty in addition to Soteldo (VEN), Lawrence (JAM) and Zavaleta (El Savador)...

The Whitecaps have Crepeau(who I think will be he number 1 for this tournament) Cavallini, Cornelius, Gutiérrez, Baldisimo, Metcalfe, Bair, and Rusty are all potential options.

Laryea - rumoured to be on the move from TFC. Will either need to be with that team. If he’s still at TFC, him and Lawrence will most likely be called up to their teams leaving TFC short handed at fullback. CSA and TFC typically make deals. 

Corbeanu - will want to impress the new manager in preseason at Wolves.

Millar - will want to get acclimated to his new team on loan during preseason.

Adekugbe - will want to get acclimated to his new team in Turkey.

Hoilet - Looking for a new club, and will likely want tk get a good preseason in 

Larin, Staqiuo- are they on the move??