CPL Zealots Name & Shame

[SpursFlu]

TSN is owned by ESPN. They're objective is to make sure American sport entities control the market of 38 million called Canada. All 3 teams could leave to CPL and they would be more interested in showing Atlanta United vs La galaxy than Forge vs HFX

[PopePouri]

29 minutes ago, Ansem said:

As does other leagues around the world. CPL does NOT prevent that from happening one bit.

Sure. But it's an extra level of professionalism here in Canada. Players like Oso, Henry and Crepeau have probably reach their level of playing ability, and it's definitely above CPL and their salary structure.

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

TSN is owned by ESPN. They're objective is to make sure American sport entities control the market of 38 million called Canada. All 3 teams could leave to CPL and they would be more interested in showing Atlanta United vs La galaxy than Forge vs HFX

That only works if people actually tune in.  It may be deemed speculation, but i am pretty sure Canadian interest in MLS would plummet if the 3 teams dropped out.

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

Sure. But it's an extra level of professionalism here in Canada. Players like Oso, Henry and Crepeau have probably reach their level of playing ability, and it's definitely above CPL and their salary structure.

If they are that good, they will make it to another league, MLS or not.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think CPL would get far more mainstream broadcasting attention because there would be little reason to focus on MLS and there would remain a strong appetite for soccer content.  CPL is the fairly obvious choice.

I don't think TFC-CPL would get as much coverage as TFC-MLS. I believe it is dreamy to think otherwise.

Part of the reason the MLS clubs enjoy their current level of coverage is because they are in MLS.

So from a broadcasting/coverage perspective, it would be a net loss for Canadian soccer.

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think ownership groups would found CPL clubs in those cities because it would make pretty good economic sense, given what most of see as positive prospects for growth in CPL. If they can be founded in the existing CPL markets, I find it unlikely thet they would be shut out of the big 3.

No problem with that, but I think it's dreamy to expect such a club to fill the big shoes of a departed TFC.

Again, I think Canadain soccer is better with TFC than minus TFC plus CPL Toronto.

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

And I think those clubs would be well supported because the populations are large and have demonstrated a strong appetite for local footy, even when the product wasn't absolutely top shelf (as in TFC's first few years).

Yeah but we are talking about removing TFC and replacing it with a Toronto CPL. People are going to compare what they lost with the replacement and judge accordingly.

If Toronto FC had never existed it would be different.

So no, I don't think you can exchange TFC for CPL Toronto and expect the same level of support. I think that is dreamy.

45 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am curious which of those claims you think is over-reaching.  If MLS moved out of Canada

1. CPL would get increased media coverage
2. CPL teams would be founded in the 3 major markets
3. Those CPL teams would be well supported

Not trying to be argumentative, but to me those are pretty modest and reasonable conclusions. 

I have no issue with any of those claims as is, but I think it is dreamy to suggest it would be a net gain for Canadian soccer.

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

TSN is owned by ESPN. They're objective is to make sure American sport entities control the market of 38 million called Canada. All 3 teams could leave to CPL and they would be more interested in showing Atlanta United vs La galaxy than Forge vs HFX

This is a sad but accurate.

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If they are that good, they will make it to another league, MLS or not.

And thus would have to leave Canada.

Can't say that's a good thing.

[narduch]

ESPN only owns about 20 percent of TSN. 

I think it's fair to question the long term financial viability of MLS. First of all it is only the 3rd most popular soccer league in the US (behind LigaMX and EPL). 

If the TV networks ever paid fair value for the US MLS rights and the expansion fees start to dry up the league could face financial hardships. 

[Obinna]

20 minutes ago, narduch said:

ESPN only owns about 20 percent of TSN. 

I think it's fair to question the long term financial viability of MLS. First of all it is only the 3rd most popular soccer league in the US (behind LigaMX and EPL). 

If the TV networks ever paid fair value for the US MLS rights and the expansion fees start to dry up the league could face financial hardships. 

Ironic this pops up as MLS has much more long term financial viability than the CPL.

...yet some of you advocate for removing our clubs from Major League Soccer and placing them in the Canadian Premier League.

Again, we have the best of both worlds right now.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Obinna

[Ansem]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

And thus would have to leave Canada.

Can't say that's a good thing.

That makes nonsense. Canada nor the US have the best league, leaving makes sense.

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That makes nonsense. Canada nor the US have the best league, leaving makes sense.

If Jonathan Osorio and others of that level (I.e greater than CPL) can play pro in Canada, that is good.

If they have to go elsewhere because MLS clubs leave Canada, that is not good.

Is that nonsense?

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Ironic this pops up as MLS has much more long term financial viability than the CPL.

...yet some of you advocate for removing our clubs from Major League Soccer and placing them in the Canadian Premier League.

Again, we have the best of both worlds right now.

I'm not advocating for it. I think it should happen organically.

Even the Fury shouldn't be forced to join CPL. Even if I think its a mistake for them not to join as early as 2020.

Edited July 30, 2019 by narduch

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, narduch said:

I'm not advocating for it. I think it should happen organically.

I wasn't casting you in that group, actually.

I guess we'll see what happens. I am happy with the current arrangement, but if we could magically turn back the clock and have a neat little pyramid where all teams were in a Canadian league, that would certainly be cool. 

But alas, we are where we are and losing clubs from MLS would be regressive, not progressive.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Obinna

[Ansem]

27 minutes ago, Obinna said:

If Jonathan Osorio and others of that level (I.e greater than CPL) can play pro in Canada, that is good.

If they have to go elsewhere because MLS clubs leave Canada, that is not good.

Is that nonsense?

Still dont follow your logic. Nations who dont have cross-border leagues are doing ok, why not us too?

That's reaching a bit

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Still dont follow your logic. Nations who dont have cross-border leagues are doing ok, why not us too?

That's reaching a bit

It's pretty simple.

Right now Oso and co. make a living in Canada because of MLS. Take away MLS and they have to play outside of Canada to make their living, because they won't be doing so in the CPL.

Taking away MLS is taking away opportunities in Canada for that level of player.

That is a bad thing for Canadian soccer, not a good thing.

Does that make sense now?

Edited July 30, 2019 by Obinna

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

It's pretty simple.

Right now Oso and co. make a living in Canada because of MLS. Take away MLS and they have to play outside of Canada to make their living, because they won't be doing so in the CPL.

Taking away MLS is taking away opportunities in Canada for that level of player.

That is a bad thing for Canadian soccer, not a good thing.

Does that make sense now?

How many Canadians gets meaningful minutes on those teams? Forsaking all the benefits of having those teams in CPL over a handful of starters is a bit much and not a great argument

 

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

How many Canadians gets meaningful minutes on those teams? Forsaking all the benefits of having those teams in CPL over a handful of starters is a bit much and not a great argument

 

It's one of many arguments and I would rather have a few players able to earn a good paycheck in this country than zero.

Meanwhile, the benefits you speak of are contingent on a very specific scenario that almost certainly won't occur. 

[Bison44]

Its not a zero sum situation.  If we have deep pocket owners in big market spots that can compete in a huge/high salary/high quality (relatively speaking) league, why not let them.  They are already there.  That MLS situation could be a lot better but those teams are a positive force on CDN soccer with their acadamies and exposure (TSN).  

CPL fills the gap for smaller markets, smaller budget teams, but laser focused on CDN content.  Until the CPL grows to a point where we have over a dozen stable teams (with 10-20,000 attendance) and 2-3 of them are clamoring for exemptions from the salary cap so they can have a multi million dollar roster of players (like MLS) then I dont see any reason to mess with the 3 MLS teams.  Lets do our thing with CPL, spread it out across the country (maratimes, prairies) and there is no reason why we cant double down with multiple teams in the big markets, TO, Quebec, Southern BC etc.  

[Obinna]

24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Its not a zero sum situation.  If we have deep pocket owners in big market spots that can compete in a huge/high salary/high quality (relatively speaking) league, why not let them.  They are already there.  That MLS situation could be a lot better but those teams are a positive force on CDN soccer with their acadamies and exposure (TSN).  

CPL fills the gap for smaller markets, smaller budget teams, but laser focused on CDN content.  Until the CPL grows to a point where we have over a dozen stable teams (with 10-20,000 attendance) and 2-3 of them are clamoring for exemptions from the salary cap so they can have a multi million dollar roster of players (like MLS) then I dont see any reason to mess with the 3 MLS teams.  Lets do our thing with CPL, spread it out across the country (maratimes, prairies) and there is no reason why we cant double down with multiple teams in the big markets, TO, Quebec, Southern BC etc.  

This.

[Bison44]

Who's to say the current MLS teams will survive in MLS long term?  If they dont keep up with the spending of US teams and end up perrenial also rans that lose money how long will they survive?  We lost the expos, grizzlies for example out of american leagues before.  

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Lofty said:

One thing that seems to have been overlooked is that long term survival of CPL is far from guaranteed. And those three markets (currently occupied by MLS) could make the difference.

It would be interesting to see which people think would be better for Canadian football: CPL and no MLS, or MLS and no CPL.

That's definitely a tougher question. I would lean towards CPL and no MLS.

However, I don't think the future of CPL depends on MLS closing up shop in Canada, thankfully. I think the Canadian Premier League is doing very well to find it's niche in the Canadian soccer landscape (I know you love that metaphor )

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Who's to say the current MLS teams will survive in MLS long term?  If they dont keep up with the spending of US teams and end up perrenial also rans that lose money how long will they survive?  We lost the expos, grizzlies for example out of american leagues before.  

Good point.

If economics forced the Whitecaps out of MLS and into CPL, that would be sad but it's great we have a league that could take them in. I could live with that.

But I would hate for us to shoot ourselves in the foot by forcing all MLS clubs into the CPL.

[Terry_Canuck]

With respect to my post earlier, I was not impressed with the number of times they (Ottawa) fell to the ground and the conduct of a couple of their players after the final whistle.  They deserved to win on the whole, but the coaches and some players thought it was a Fait Accompli.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/ottawa-fury-fc-beat-wanderers-fc-advance-semifinals-canadian/

Best of luck to them in the semi-finals, but I do hope we play them again next year.

[Ansem]

This thread will be more relevant the day after the 2026 World Cup finals