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Lofty

Fall Season - 2019

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1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

What's this even based on? The goalkeeper for the second to last placed team is number 3, but none of the leading goalscorers are in the top 5. Seems crazy

Petrasso is one of the leading goal scorers and he is in second place right now.

I don't think anybody is claiming this is the final word. But the winner does get a new VW Jetta so it is worth playing.

During the 2019 season, CPL Club players will compete for a chance to win a 2019 Volkswagen Jetta GLI. Players will be given a score from 1-100 for their contribution to the match via data and statistics from every match that will result in a final ranking at the end of the season and ultimately result in a Canadian Premier League Club player being crowned the “Premier Performer”.

https://canpl.ca/premier-performer/

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On 8/30/2019 at 12:36 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Not sure who decides, if it's OneSoccer journalists or not. But the two York9 players is silly. Or just the bias that it's their local team and they know the players and rate them higher.

No journalist bias for this. As Lofty linked, it's based on stats and a formula. It's analogous to the Audi Player Index for MLS for people familiar with that.

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23 minutes ago, Kent said:

No journalist bias for this. As Lofty linked, it's based on stats and a formula. It's analogous to the Audi Player Index for MLS for people familiar with that.

I don't believe that, sorry. And if my disbelief is mistaken, then I just have to say that the formula is obviously garbage. 

Ineffective higher profile Petrasso rates higher than low flying but very effective Campbell?

And two players from York9? Time to adjust the formula.

@Lofty Petrasso is third now in goals, and then how many have been penalties?

 

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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3 hours ago, Kent said:

No journalist bias for this. As Lofty linked, it's based on stats and a formula. It's analogous to the Audi Player Index for MLS for people familiar with that.

It's also just a bit of fun and a talking point. It's also not my system -- I know nothing about it other than what is in the articles!

People seem to be getting worked up over nothing!

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3 hours ago, Lofty said:

It's also just a bit of fun and a talking point. It's also not my system -- I know nothing about it other than what is in the articles!

People seem to be getting worked up over nothing!

Actually, I am just bothered by the biased system, it makes no sense at all.

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7 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't believe that, sorry. And if my disbelief is mistaken, then I just have to say that the formula is obviously garbage. 

Ineffective higher profile Petrasso rates higher than low flying but very effective Campbell?

And two players from York9? Time to adjust the formula.

@Lofty Petrasso is third now in goals, and then how many have been penalties?

 

 

I'm sure the formula is garbage, but Petrasso hasn't been ineffective. He's been the team's best and most important player, a team that is more or less equal by every measure to Campbell's Pacific. The biggest knock against Petrasso was that he got hurt.

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9 hours ago, jonovision said:

I'm sure the formula is garbage, but Petrasso hasn't been ineffective. He's been the team's best and most important player, a team that is more or less equal by every measure to Campbell's Pacific. The biggest knock against Petrasso was that he got hurt.

The effective players on the teams that are leading the league have to be the league's best players. As I see it.

Which is why the choice of Carducci seems right to me, he is obviously the MVP so far this season. I realise that with Forge the effectiveness is shared around, as it is with all teams that win, but still: Petrasso is a bit of flash on a generally bad team, which I don't rate, sorry. And I also appreciate that Campbell just seems to be invisible for long stretches of games, then nabs a goal (Ongaro is doing this a bit too). 

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4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The effective players on the teams that are leading the league have to be the league's best players. As I see it.

Which is why the choice of Carducci seems right to me, he is obviously the MVP so far this season. I realise that with Forge the effectiveness is shared around, as it is with all teams that win, but still: Petrasso is a bit of flash on a generally bad team, which I don't rate, sorry. And I also appreciate that Campbell just seems to be invisible for long stretches of games, then nabs a goal (Ongaro is doing this a bit too). 

I'm pretty sure the formula won't take into account the strength of the team that the players are on. In fact, wouldn't that be a bias? If Messi goes to a garbage team and they are bottom half of the league, does that mean Messi is now garbage? To get points no doubt there is more to it than goals and assists. Those will win big points no doubt, but it will also be about things like passing percentage, tackles, successful dribbles, etc.

Perhaps the players from lesser teams benefit by being tasked with taking on more of the workload by their team than players on Cavalry or Forge.

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3 hours ago, Kent said:

I'm pretty sure the formula won't take into account the strength of the team that the players are on. In fact, wouldn't that be a bias? If Messi goes to a garbage team and they are bottom half of the league, does that mean Messi is now garbage?

The strength of the team is inherently important to individual players performances. As a purely attacking player, if Messi were to go to a weaker team, he would likely have less influence on the game than he does with Barca. Similarly, if a keeper were to go to a dominant team, they would likely be required to influence the game less. 

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EPL doing something similar to CPL "Premier Performer":

How are the Sky Sports Power Rankings calculated?

Each week we list the top-performing players in the Premier League and the Championship. These Power Rankings are based on points awarded to players for 35 different statistics - from goals and assists, to blocks and tackles.

...

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/19024/9994064/how-are-the-sky-sports-power-rankings-calculated

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On 9/2/2019 at 12:03 AM, jonovision said:

I'm sure the formula is garbage, but Petrasso hasn't been ineffective. He's been the team's best and most important player, a team that is more or less equal by every measure to Campbell's Pacific. The biggest knock against Petrasso was that he got hurt.

So which Cavalry player the other day was worse than Petrasso? And do you still think your definition of ineffective is right?

I know I am being opportunist, but having Petrasso in the mix for what is an MVP award, essentially, is garbage.

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On 7/17/2019 at 3:24 AM, Lofty said:

I enjoyed this rather creative article. Most of the comparisons were very perceptive and boy did he nail it for Valour!

If you haven’t decided yet which CPL team to support, I offer some comparisons we can draw between the seven CPL teams and seven English Premier League sides.

These are not reaches. This is serious journalism, folks.

https://canpl.ca/article/sandor-which-epl-club-does-each-cpl-team-resemble

Being from near Edmonton, this was a distressing read.  The author, can as we sing:

stick the blue flag ...
from Stamford Bridge to Upton Park,
we'll stick the blue flag ....

More seriously fun article. We just need more teams in the CPL.  Like one that won the World Cup, but very little else.  

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10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So which Cavalry player the other day was worse than Petrasso? And do you still think your definition of ineffective is right?

I know I am being opportunist, but having Petrasso in the mix for what is an MVP award, essentially, is garbage.

Again, I'm not making the argument for Petrasso for MVP, but if your list of "effective" players include only those who didn't have a single bad game, that's a short list. 

Try to be honest with your arguments, please.

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3 hours ago, jonovision said:

Again, I'm not making the argument for Petrasso for MVP, but if your list of "effective" players include only those who didn't have a single bad game, that's a short list. 

Try to be honest with your arguments, please.

So you are "honestly" saying that Petrasso has had a single bad game? Not my idea of honesty.

I really don't care who they give the car to, it is just a promotional ruse, but if the parameters are coming out this way, then they are severely flawed. 

 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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Confirmed: It will be Forge vs. Cavalry in the final. One or the other must now win the Fall title, and in either case, Forge get the remaining berth.

https://canpl.ca/article/forge-win-eliminates-pacific-valour-edmonton-from-fall-contention

The contest for third, or best of the rest, is still wide open though with all five teams still in with a chance although HFX have fallen a little behind the pack. York currently in the box seat but they have the toughest run in as they still have to play Forge twice.

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On 9/4/2019 at 12:11 PM, jonovision said:

Again, I'm not making the argument for Petrasso for MVP, but if your list of "effective" players include only those who didn't have a single bad game, that's a short list. 

Try to be honest with your arguments, please.

Fast forward a month and Borges is tied for the league lead in Goals and Assists.  Forge is in 1st place in the Fall Season.  

With 4 weeks to go Borges is the league MVP.

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Fast forward a month and Borges is tied for the league lead in Goals and Assists.  Forge is in 1st place in the Fall Season.  

With 4 weeks to go Borges is the league MVP.

Or Carducci.

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4 hours ago, Lofty said:

Confirmed: It will be Forge vs. Cavalry in the final. One or the other must now win the Fall title, ...

...which determines who gets to decide who plays at home first but the Ticats have a home game on Nov 2 and that means it's probably already a sure thing that the deciding game will be in Calgary even if it has yet to be officially announced.

Onesoccer were talking up third place probably deciding who gets a bye in next year's Canadian Championship yesterday, so that might be the last minor issue to be determined over the next few games. The coaches are already all too obviously using these games like an early preseason to see what certain players can do to make decisions on who to keep and who to cut, so I doubt that's being taken seriously by anyone directly involved.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...which determines who gets to decide who plays at home first but the Ticats have a home game on Nov 2 and that means it's probably already a sure thing that the deciding game will be in Calgary even if it has yet to be officially announced.

Onesoccer were talking up third place probably deciding who gets a bye in next year's Canadian Championship yesterday, so that might be the last minor issue to be determined over the next few games. The coaches are already all too obviously using these games like an early preseason to see what certain players can do to make decisions on who to keep and who to cut, so I doubt that's being taken seriously by anyone directly involved.

1. If they keep the same format, that is an excellent point, not that it helped those teams any this year!

2. Valour seem to be taking it seriously. I think Gale knows they have let the fans down to this point and will be trying to make amends with a third place finish and two consecutive home wins to finish the home season (for a run of 3). And rightly so. No sign of an experimental team yet. That is what the real pre-season is for (although with injuries and suspensions his hands will be mostly tied for the next couple of matches anyway).

Edited by Lofty

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36 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Getting third place a bye into QR2 is really the best way to do it.  The league table would be a lot more interesting right now if that had been the plan from the start.

1614713341_cpl20190929b.png.8177374581474feeb11d606582d30647.png

My main problem is that if you have two distinct seasons then there should be no such thing as a "combined table". If Cavalry win both seasons and a Championship Tie is a must, then the two second place teams should play-off for the second berth (only necessary if there are different second place teams).

Assuming 3 VCup byes, I would give them to the two season champs and the Fall Season second place (I think it is natural that the Fall Season takes on more importance because it is played later). If the same team wins both seasons, the two second place teams get the byes. If the same two teams occupy the top two places in both seasons, as with this year, the Fall Season third place gets the bye.

One other thing: the CPL team that plays in the CONCACAF League should get an EXTRA bye (in the VCup) over all other CPL teams to mitigate the effect of the extra CL matches.

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50 minutes ago, Lofty said:

My main problem is that if you have two distinct seasons then there should be no such thing as a "combined table". If Cavalry win both seasons and a Championship Tie is a must, then the two second place teams should play-off for the second berth (only necessary if there are different second place teams).

Assuming 3 VCup byes, I would give them to the two season champs and the Fall Season second place (I think it is natural that the Fall Season takes on more importance because it is played later). If the same team wins both seasons, the two second place teams get the byes. If the same two teams occupy the top two places in both seasons, as with this year, the Fall Season third place gets the bye.

One other thing: the CPL team that plays in the CONCACAF League should get an EXTRA bye (in the VCup) over all other CPL teams to mitigate the effect of the extra CL matches.

I'd do away with the spring and fall seasons personally - if it was an attempt to keep matches meaningful during October, it clearly hasn't panned out this year.  Just go with single table but have more positions in that single table actually mean something.

Giving the league winner a bye to QR3 is a wonderful idea on its own, without even including the CL berth as a rationale.  A mid-table US 2nd Division team receiving a bye to QR3 over our domestic league champion seems a bit of a slap in the face at this point (not to say it won't happen though).

It will be interesting to see how the CSA allocates the final four byes next year.  There shouldn't be any difference in the format (not to say that won't happen either).
- Maintain the current 3xMLS + USL
- Make us happy with 3xMLS + CPL
- Reflect performance with 2xMLS + CPL + USL

Edited by Gopherbashi

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The bigger problem is that for every team the CPL adds, you lose one bye into QR2 (assuming they start by adding more QR1 matches).  A ten-team CPL would mean zero byes into QR2, making the format pointless.

If they get rid of TFC's bye first, it's more doable.

Edited by Gopherbashi

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