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Should Herdman be fired ?


Should Herdman be fired  

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  1. 1. Should Herdman be fired

    • Yes
      33
    • No
      46
    • Not yet
      53


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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

If you’re calling for Herdman to be fired I hope you had that same energy for Hart, Floro and OZ.

Hart did what he could with what he had, so no. 

Floro I most definitely had the same energy, because of his park the bus tactic. However I do wonder what he would've done with David, Hoilett, Davies vs Ricketts, Haber, and Jackson. He definitely didn't help/change players mentality when he says his teams not capable of attacking.

OZ started this revolution, he was on to something in terms of changing the mindset of the way Canadian player think about winning/attacking. He was advocating for more premium friendlies, tried to unleash a new scouting network, introduced Kaye & Davies, brought Osorio & Cavallini back into the program, brought Canada the furthest they been in the GC since 2007 all within less than a year....hell no did I have the same energy.

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If anything, this was one of the strongest Canadian teams we have seen in a long time. Two young superstars in Davies and David, an on form LigaMX striker, very good MLS players like Kaye, Osorio and

It is an excellent interview (other than the audio quality of the call) and crucially for me, as KJ and Caldwell indicate after the interview is done, Herdman admits that he needs to learn from his mi

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35 minutes ago, king1010 said:

The D stands for the day of battle. The day before is D -1. The day after is D +1. Battle day is D. 

Thanks for the history lesson king1010. And yes indeed, the day of battle will be September 10, 2019. The field of combat will be Havana, Cuba. A Canadian Defeat, with a capital D, will spell its time for Herdman to Defect, with a capital D. We all know lots of Cubans players have defected over the years, but the big question right now is does Cuba take in defecting coaches?

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12 hours ago, SpecialK said:

At 22:28 it starts with highlights of game. And there was a great sportnet article I posted earlier and I saw some things on European forms and even former players are  disgusted 

Are you kidding me? You are citing a video clip of Paul “Lock up Your Liquor Cabinets” Mariner disparaging us? If there is a bigger idiot involved in the game or media in North America I don’t know who he is or want to know. The man is a moron and Alejandro Morono (who thinks Venezuela is the greatest at everything) isn’t exactly a soccer genius either. Cripes, who are you going to cite next, the reaction of Mo Johnston? Marco Velez? Joseph Nane? 

Canadian soccer fans should not be so insecure that we need to worry or care what these people think. If we fire Herdman it should be because he repeatedly fails to improve the team and learn from his mistakes, not because the likes of John Carver might think we are a joke. 

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30 minutes ago, KW519 said:

I don't think individual errors should cost Herdman his job. If an opportunity to go sign a better manager is there then we should absolutely take advantage of that opportunity, but we were 2 Godinho mental lapses away from the semi final. I'm scapegoating Godinho, not Herdman.

Herdman and the CSA put our team in a position to fail IMO (or at least not in the best position to win)

First by not having friendlies to evaluate our weak positions.

Second by not calling up enough defenders(cordova? James? Adekugbe) and thinking his square peg in a round hole philosophy would work. 

Third by throwing out Godhinio in the QFs when many on this board were concerned with the pace of Haiti counter attack and how ZBG would better handle that pace. 

Fourth by not adjusting in game tactics to support Godinho after it became apparent Haiti was picking on him as the weak link. 

Fifth by not subbing Godinho off after his confidence was shot and it became clear he was leaking oil. 

I'm not absolving Godinho for his faults, but to paint him as a scapegoat is incorrect IMO. The coach did not put him or the team in the best position to win in that QF game. 

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18 hours ago, Binky said:

In other countries, where soccer associations take the success of their national team very seriously, the slightest faux pas on the coach's part is dealt with immediately:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/danny-blind-fired-coach-dutch-soccer-team/ Fired because of poor WCQ results. Team didn't qualify after firing him.

https://www.inc.com/scott-mautz/spains-coach-was-fired-a-day-before-world-cup-its-a-shocking-lesson-in-basic-professionalism.html Fired just before the World Cup. Spain advanced out of the group and then lost to Russia in the round of 16 (which is probably a much worse result for them than our Gold Cup performance was).

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/earthquakes/us-mens-national-team-coach-jurgen-klinsmann-fired Fired during WCQ. US didn't qualify for the World Cup.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/soccer/mexico-national-soccer-coach-fired-after-journalists-claim Fired just after winning the 2015 Gold Cup. Next meaningful competition (other than WCQ which is trivial for Mexico) lost in the semi finals of 2017 Gold Cup.

https://www.rferl.org/a/montenegro-serbian-coach-players-snub-euro2020-match-kosovo/29987817.html Too early to say anything. Have only played one match since the coach was fired, which they lost 3-0 to Czech Republic

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/destacada/serbian-national-soccer-coach-fired/50000261-3423820 Fired weeks after getting them to qualify for the World Cup 2018. Failed to get out of the group in the World Cup (probably their expected result, to be fair)

https://www.frontrowsoccer.com/2019/01/19/sacked-australia-womens-coach-fired-due-to-unsatisfactory-team-environment/ Fired before the women's World Cup. Team made it out of the group but lost in the R16. The 3 previous World Cups they made it to the QF.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180410/p2a/00m/0na/012000c Fired just before the World Cup. Made it out of the group at the World Cup, which was a better performance than the previous World Cup. You've found one that seemed to do well after a firing!

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/former-canada-soccer-coach-holger-osieck-fired-as-australian-coach-1.1495225 Fired shortly (8 months) before the 2014 World Cup. Australia lost all 3 of its games at the 2014 World Cup for the only time in its history.

https://torontosun.com/sports/soccer/italy-coach-fired-days-after-country-fails-to-qualify-for-world-cup Fired after failing to qualify for the World Cup. Have only played Nations League and a portion of Euro qualifying. In Nations League came 2nd in a group with Portugal (winner) and Poland (relegated). Results are good so far in qualifying. Hard to say if this is underperforming, overperforming, or meeting expectations.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/poland-coach-fired-2-loss-1-win-world-cup/ Fired after the 2018 World Cup. Since then got relegated from Nations League A but leading their Euro qualifying group. Like Italy, hard to say if these are good results or not. Considering the groups they are in, it's probably meets expectations.

But oh no, not here in Canada. We sign inexperienced snake oil salesmen to million-dollar long-term contacts, allow them to embarrass our country in international competition, and more than a week later they still have the CSA's blessings! Only in Canada, eh!!!

My comments in bold above. Explain to me how the fact that these countries fired their coaches supports your argument that it is a good idea for Canada to fire John Herdman. Especially since there are lots of different reasons for the firings above. Some because of poor results, some because of taking another job behind the federation's back, some for issues with reporters, etc.

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Almost every national team manager, anywhere, is on the "Not Yet" list.  Heck, Low of Germany is on the "Not Yet" list.  It's the nature of the job, frankly. 

If he tones down on the "Mind Room" and Navy SEAL beach training publicity and concentrates more upon the, albeit cliched, underpromise/overdeliver public statements, then I'd be happier.  When you don't win, that stuff makes you look like a prat.    It also provides bulletin board material for the opposition as well as comes across like he's trying to co-write  a book with Simon Sinek. 

On the field, with the emerging talent at his disposal, he maintained the more assertive, attack minded football I saw at the Gold Cup two years ago and I hope really hope this continues, along with solidifying the back line situation.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

My comments in bold above. Explain to me how the fact that these countries fired their coaches supports your argument that it is a good idea for Canada to fire John Herdman. Especially since there are lots of different reasons for the firings above. Some because of poor results, some because of taking another job behind the federation's back, some for issues with reporters, etc.

Obviously, I was wrong. Herdman should not, I repeat, not, now or ever, be fired by the CSA. In fact, the Herdman signing is the best signing of a coach that the CSA has ever made. What a brilliant move on the CSA's part to discover such a diamond in the rough and to secure his services for the next ten-years at such a bargain-basement price, before the giants of Europe had a chance to swoop in and steal this super-star-coach-in-the-making away from us. Absolutely, without a doubt, THE best signing of a coach ever!!!

Just two questions:

1) Has any Canadian national team coached by Herdman ever won a major competitive international match against a team that was favoured over Canada? In other words, has Canada ever had an upset victory with John Herdman at the helm?

2) Has any Canadian national team coached by Herdman ever lost a major competitive international match against a team that was not favoured over Canada? In other words, has Canada ever suffered an upset loss with John Herdman at the helm?

(By major competitive international matches I mean CONCACAF Gold Cup and FIFA World Cup matches. No Cyprus Cup, Algarve Cup, Olympic or friendly matches.)

Like what is Herdman's record in important matches? Has he won any big matches? Has he lost any matches he should have won? Does his record justify signing him to a 10-year-multi-million-dollar contract? Are you kidding me?

Is this not the worst coaching contract ever by the CSA?

 

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16 hours ago, gator said:

I'm just happy this topic continues to be discussed and respectfully for the most part, there are some major concerns both with Herdman and the CSA he won't be fired too soon to be sure, the bar has to be raised though! 

I just started reading this thread, and while I think an actual discussion on this topic is healthy I don't believe this thread was started with any sort of respectful or (frankly) sane intentions.

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On 7/2/2019 at 11:01 PM, SpecialK said:

I understand the thinking of waiting, but you just can’t go around talking about playing the best teams in CONCACAF and finally when you do get to play as manager you put on the bench and play a style of play that minnows play when they are playing giants, when they want to  survive respectively. After you lose, you Try to justify your stupidity by saying oh we don’t want to show our hand to Mexico( like Tata has never managed before ) Then Throughout the week you talks about playing Mexico again in the semi’s when he’s got a game against Haiti coming up. Haiti beats you and the country and the world thinks your idiot! I’m sorry he doesn’t Deserve another chance he made the program look horrible,  because of his arrogance.

I just hope to see some better decisions made by Herdman and his staff.

Starting with his squad selection, his tactics, formations and his in-game substitutions.

As a coach I think he has these guys playing at an overall good level, albeit the talent itself speaks for itself.

To me what stands out most:

Pre-Tournmanet Squad Selection:

Lack of defenders & overcrowding of central midfielders.

The fact that Herdman honestly believes he can play players out of position vs quality men's national programs is mind boggling to me.

Cordova, Adekugbe & James left off for various reasons.

Teibert played out of position, in fact I don't know he ever played in central midfield in this tournament.

WJ played part of one game in central midfield and looked terrible.

Okello yet to play for TFC and yet to be capped by Canada was chosen instead of defenders.

Martinique game:

Atiba playing out of position and it showed. 

Central midfielders Kaye & Teibert playing out of position at LB and it showed throughout the tournament. 

Godinho starting at RB after not featuring for Hearts for months and only 1 cap under his name and was yet to feature in this squad of players under Herdman.

Mexico:

The overall formation choice & resting as many players as he did, considering how weak we knew our next opponent was going to be.

Larin out wide vs Mexico.  The only time Larin needed to play this tournament was either vs Cuba to get his confidence up or any late sub when we were down a goal.  Playing vs Mexico in a new position should never have happened.

"Hiding your hand" vs Mexico is an absolute idiotic maneuver.  One, as we witnessed, a second game is not always guaranteed.  Two, Tata and his staff are well aware of all the players we have so saving them for semi finals really doesn't do anything.  I understand resting the odd player in a long tournament but resting out our attacking 4 core players hurt us that game.

Cuba:

Very little could be done to affect this game negatively.  Would rather have seen some regulars sit for this game.  It wa snice to see both Cavallini and David beat up on Cuba but also could have been nice to give Larin & Millar and players like that minutes, especially considering the big quarter final next game.

Haiti:

Lack of tactical change in 2nd half.

Godinho should not have started vs Haiti's pace.

Piette should have come in the 2nd half to close up game.

Osorio pulled to rest for semis?  Should never be thinking ahead like that.

Morgan for Cavallini?  Put on an outside back for your striker when down a goal.  Yes I know Davies moved forward but there were many other ways to do this.

Godinho remained on the field after constant errors.

Never used 3rd substitution.  Would have been smart to put Larin on late for any crosses and set pieces.  Or at least Millar to utilize his pace vs a tiring Haiti.

As a coach you have many aspects of the game to cover.  However, one of the most important is in-game tactics and substitutions/lineups.  And I think this is where I am honestly dumbfounded.  All of these above are opinion based but I think many would agree that Herdman dropped the ball in many cases.  Thankfully in CONCACAF we are able to get away with these errors in many games vs lesser  quality competition.

I still believe this is a best squad yet and its only going to get better, I just hope we don't waste the opportunity.

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