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The Road to Qatar.

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18 minutes ago, lamptern said:

I have edited the wonderful ideas from a couple of friends in this thread.

Can we send a formal email as a group to CONCACAF suggesting the new format of FIFA 2022 Qualifier?

Top Section: 3 groups of 4 based on FIFA rankings with team winning their group go to Qatar. 3 second place teams (2A, 2B and 2C ranked by points they have in group game)  go to playoff stage.

Bottom section: home and home knock out between 13-35 ranked nations to decide one team for playoff stage.

Playoff stage: The  best second place team (2A) playing the bottom section winner. Team 2B vs 2C. Winners play each other for the right to play in intercontinental playoff. 

 

Time to chip in.😄

 

Your bottom bracket will take 10 match days, so with the 4 team playoff I think your proposal uses exactly the same number of match days as the original plan (assuming the playoff is 2 legs each round.

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52 minutes ago, lamptern said:

I have edited the wonderful ideas from a couple of friends in this thread.

Can we send a formal email as a group to CONCACAF suggesting the new format of FIFA 2022 Qualifier?

Top Section: 3 groups of 4 based on FIFA rankings with team winning their group go to Qatar. 3 second place teams (2A, 2B and 2C ranked by points they have in group game)  go to playoff stage.

Bottom section: home and home knock out between 13-35 ranked nations to decide one team for playoff stage.

Playoff stage: The  best second place team (2A) playing the bottom section winner. Team 2B vs 2C. Winners play each other for the right to play in intercontinental playoff. 

 

Time to chip in.😄

 

But this is their idea. You would be emailing CONCACAF the idea they came up with.

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59 minutes ago, Kent said:

Your bottom bracket will take 10 match days, so with the 4 team playoff I think your proposal uses exactly the same number of match days as the original plan (assuming the playoff is 2 legs each round.

Call FIFA to extend qualifier to September 2022.

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2 hours ago, lamptern said:

I have edited the wonderful ideas from a couple of friends in this thread.

Can we send a formal email as a group to CONCACAF suggesting the new format of FIFA 2022 Qualifier?

Top Section: 3 groups of 4 based on FIFA rankings with team winning their group go to Qatar. 3 second place teams (2A, 2B and 2C ranked by points they have in group game)  go to playoff stage.

Bottom section: home and home knock out between 13-35 ranked nations to decide one team for playoff stage.

Playoff stage: The  best second place team (2A) playing the bottom section winner. Team 2B vs 2C. Winners play each other for the right to play in intercontinental playoff. 

 

Time to chip in.😄

 

Already done! The following email was sent to the following recipients 5 days ago:

From: Peggy
Sent: May 26, 2020 9:32 PM
To: info@cafonline.com <info@cafonline.com>; media@the-afc.com <media@the-afc.com>; general.secretariat@concacaf.org <general.secretariat@concacaf.org>; admin@oceaniafootball.com <admin@oceaniafootball.com>; secretaria@conmebol.com <secretaria@conmebol.com>; axafa@yahoo.com <axafa@yahoo.com>; General.Secretary@antiguafootball.com <General.Secretary@antiguafootball.com>; info@avbaruba.com <info@avbaruba.com>; fredericklunn@coralwave.com <fredericklunn@coralwave.com>; office@barbadosfa.com <office@barbadosfa.com>; bzefederation@gmail.com <bzefederation@gmail.com>; bfa@bermudafootball.com <bfa@bermudafootball.com>; bvigensec2@gmail.com <bvigensec2@gmail.com>; cayman.fa.gs@gmail.com <cayman.fa.gs@gmail.com>; ejecutivo@fedefutbol.com <ejecutivo@fedefutbol.com>; secretaria.general.AFC@gmail.com <secretaria.general.AFC@gmail.com>; organization@ffk.cw <organization@ffk.cw>; domfootball@cwdom.dm <domfootball@cwdom.dm>; fedofutbol.dom@gmail.com <fedofutbol.dom@gmail.com>; comunicaciones@fesfut.org.sv <comunicaciones@fesfut.org.sv>; gfageneralsecretariat@gmail.com <gfageneralsecretariat@gmail.com>; info@fedefutguate.org <info@fedefutguate.org>; gff@networksgy.com <gff@networksgy.com>; info@fhfhaiti.com <info@fhfhaiti.com>; fenafuth@fenafuth.org.hn <fenafuth@fenafuth.org.hn>; jamff@hotmail.com <jamff@hotmail.com>; presidenciafmf@fmf.mx <presidenciafmf@fmf.mx>; mfainc@candw.ms <mfainc@candw.ms>; fenifut@yahoo.com <fenifut@yahoo.com>; info@fepafut.com <info@fepafut.com>; info@fedefutbolpr.com <info@fedefutbolpr.com>; info@sknfa.com <info@sknfa.com>; stluciafootballassociation@gmail.com <stluciafootballassociation@gmail.com>; svgfootball@gmail.com <svgfootball@gmail.com>; svb@sr.net <svb@sr.net>; contacttcifa@gmail.com <contacttcifa@gmail.com>; communications@ussoccer.org <communications@ussoccer.org>; usvisoccer@gmail.com <usvisoccer@gmail.com>; info@canadasoccer.com <info@canadasoccer.com>
Subject: 2022 CONCACACAF World Cup qualifying format
 
Dear CONCACAF Members,
 
May I suggest the following World Cup qualifying format for CONCACAF, which will give each of CONCACAF's branches; North America, Central America and the Caribbean, representation at the Qatar 2022.
 
Instead of 6 countries competing in the HEX, CONCACAF would use the FIFA Coca-Cola rankings to form 3 groups comprised of 3 countries each.
 
NORTH AMERICAN GROUP
CENTRAL AMERICAN GROUP
CARIBBEAN GROUP
   MEXICO    COSTA RICA    JAMAICA
   UNITED STATES    HONDURAS    CURACAO
   CANADA    EL SALVADOR    HAITI
 
The 3 group winners qualify directly for Qatar 2022, while the 3 runners-up will be joined by the winner of the 10 to 35-country qualifying section, to compete for the Inter-Continental berth.
 
This format will reduce the number of match-day windows required, and cut down on traveling expenses.
 

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53 minutes ago, lamptern said:

Call FIFA to extend qualifier to September 2022.

But then what is the point in changing the agreed upon system?

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53 minutes ago, Peggy said:

Already done! The following email was sent to the following recipients 5 days ago:

From: Peggy
Sent: May 26, 2020 9:32 PM
To: info@cafonline.com <info@cafonline.com>; media@the-afc.com <media@the-afc.com>; general.secretariat@concacaf.org <general.secretariat@concacaf.org>; admin@oceaniafootball.com <admin@oceaniafootball.com>; secretaria@conmebol.com <secretaria@conmebol.com>; axafa@yahoo.com <axafa@yahoo.com>; General.Secretary@antiguafootball.com <General.Secretary@antiguafootball.com>; info@avbaruba.com <info@avbaruba.com>; fredericklunn@coralwave.com <fredericklunn@coralwave.com>; office@barbadosfa.com <office@barbadosfa.com>; bzefederation@gmail.com <bzefederation@gmail.com>; bfa@bermudafootball.com <bfa@bermudafootball.com>; bvigensec2@gmail.com <bvigensec2@gmail.com>; cayman.fa.gs@gmail.com <cayman.fa.gs@gmail.com>; ejecutivo@fedefutbol.com <ejecutivo@fedefutbol.com>; secretaria.general.AFC@gmail.com <secretaria.general.AFC@gmail.com>; organization@ffk.cw <organization@ffk.cw>; domfootball@cwdom.dm <domfootball@cwdom.dm>; fedofutbol.dom@gmail.com <fedofutbol.dom@gmail.com>; comunicaciones@fesfut.org.sv <comunicaciones@fesfut.org.sv>; gfageneralsecretariat@gmail.com <gfageneralsecretariat@gmail.com>; info@fedefutguate.org <info@fedefutguate.org>; gff@networksgy.com <gff@networksgy.com>; info@fhfhaiti.com <info@fhfhaiti.com>; fenafuth@fenafuth.org.hn <fenafuth@fenafuth.org.hn>; jamff@hotmail.com <jamff@hotmail.com>; presidenciafmf@fmf.mx <presidenciafmf@fmf.mx>; mfainc@candw.ms <mfainc@candw.ms>; fenifut@yahoo.com <fenifut@yahoo.com>; info@fepafut.com <info@fepafut.com>; info@fedefutbolpr.com <info@fedefutbolpr.com>; info@sknfa.com <info@sknfa.com>; stluciafootballassociation@gmail.com <stluciafootballassociation@gmail.com>; svgfootball@gmail.com <svgfootball@gmail.com>; svb@sr.net <svb@sr.net>; contacttcifa@gmail.com <contacttcifa@gmail.com>; communications@ussoccer.org <communications@ussoccer.org>; usvisoccer@gmail.com <usvisoccer@gmail.com>; info@canadasoccer.com <info@canadasoccer.com>
Subject: 2022 CONCACACAF World Cup qualifying format
 
Dear CONCACAF Members,
 
May I suggest the following World Cup qualifying format for CONCACAF, which will give each of CONCACAF's branches; North America, Central America and the Caribbean, representation at the Qatar 2022.
 
Instead of 6 countries competing in the HEX, CONCACAF would use the FIFA Coca-Cola rankings to form 3 groups comprised of 3 countries each.
 
NORTH AMERICAN GROUP
CENTRAL AMERICAN GROUP
CARIBBEAN GROUP
   MEXICO    COSTA RICA    JAMAICA
   UNITED STATES    HONDURAS    CURACAO
   CANADA    EL SALVADOR    HAITI
 
The 3 group winners qualify directly for Qatar 2022, while the 3 runners-up will be joined by the winner of the 10 to 35-country qualifying section, to compete for the Inter-Continental berth.
 
This format will reduce the number of match-day windows required, and cut down on traveling expenses.
 

USA and Mexico in same group? That will never happen.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kent said:

But then what is the point in changing the agreed upon system?

Because the integrity of original system is compromized by pandemic. Teams outside of HEX couldn't finish their effort on gaining points in March and June friendly games. 

Anyway, I don't think CONCACAF could make a feasible plan before FIFA schdules the new  international match days or qualifier extension.

Edited by lamptern

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lamptern said:

USA and Mexico in same group? That will never happen.

Could history repeat?

1958 World Cup

Rank Team Pts Pld W D L GF GA
1 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. Mexico 8 4 4 0 0 18 2
2 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada 4 4 2 0 2 8 8
3 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 United States 0 4 0 0 4 5 21
Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. v 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 United States
7 April 1957 Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. 6 – 0 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 United States showMexico City, Mexico
  C. GutiérrezGoal 14'26'
ReyesGoal 33'69'76'
H. HernándezGoal 63'
    Attendance: 60,000
Referee: Van Rosberg (Netherlands Antilles)

United States 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 v 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. Mexico
28 April 1957 United States 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 2 – 7 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. Mexico showLong Beach, United States
  E. MurphyGoal 5'45'   A. HernándezGoal 22'36'82'
C. GutiérrezGoal 38'
H. HernándezGoal 65'87'
SesmaGoal 79'
Attendance: 12,500
Referee: Morgan (Canada)

Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 v 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 United States
22 June 1957 Canada 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 5 – 1 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 United States showVarsity Stadium Toronto, Canada
  McLeodGoal 32'
PhilleyGoal 35'
HughesGoal 55'80'
StewartGoal 57'
  KeoughGoal 35' (pen.) Attendance: 5,167
Referee: Sadler (Canada)

Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. v 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada
30 June 1957 Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. 3 – 0 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada showMexico City, Mexico
  C. GonzálezGoal 5'72'
C. GutiérrezGoal 46'
    Referee: Van Rosberg (Netherlands Antilles)

Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. v 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada
3 July 1957 Mexico 23px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281934-1968%29.svg. 2 – 0 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada showMexico City, Mexico
  C. GutiérrezGoal 8'
SesmaGoal 28'
    Referee: Van Rosberg (Netherlands Antilles)

United States 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 v 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada
6 July 1957 United States 23px-Flag_of_the_United_States_%281912-1 2 – 3 23px-Flag_of_Canada_%281921%E2%80%931957 Canada showSt. Louis, United States
  MendozaGoal 42'
J. MurphyGoal 80'
  PhilleyGoal 9'
SteckiwGoal 14'
StewartGoal 25'
Attendance: 1,500
Referee: Lutostanski (United States)

 

 

Edited by Peggy

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Posted (edited)

Not only would Canada have 2 home sell outs in any stadium in this country, it would raise the national level of interest in the CMNT like we've never seen before!

If Canada were to finish second in a similar group this time around, we would have to be odds on favourites for the inter-continental berth!

Edited by Peggy

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9 minutes ago, Peggy said:

Did you ever hear of a group called the HEX?

Yeah I have and honestly the Hex format even though people had their reservations about it, it actually was a good format. But this new format really is no better if you think about it. It all depends on luck of the draw really when it comes to the Group Draw. For all we know, Canada could end up with a bad draw. They could end up with a good group draw. No one really knows so then why hedge your bets on that?

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9 hours ago, Peggy said:

Dear CONCACAF Members,

 
May I suggest the following World Cup qualifying format for CONCACAF, which will give each of CONCACAF's branches; North America, Central America and the Caribbean, representation at the Qatar 2022.
 
Instead of 6 countries competing in the HEX, CONCACAF would use the FIFA Coca-Cola rankings to form 3 groups comprised of 3 countries each.
 
NORTH AMERICAN GROUP
CENTRAL AMERICAN GROUP
CARIBBEAN GROUP
   MEXICO    COSTA RICA    JAMAICA
   UNITED STATES    HONDURAS    CURACAO
   CANADA    EL SALVADOR    HAITI
 
The 3 group winners qualify directly for Qatar 2022, while the 3 runners-up will be joined by the winner of the 10 to 35-country qualifying section, to compete for the Inter-Continental berth.
 
This format will reduce the number of match-day windows required, and cut down on traveling expenses.
 

@admin this is Robert's new account.

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1 hour ago, TGAA_Star said:

Yeah I have and honestly the Hex format even though people had their reservations about it, it actually was a good format. But this new format really is no better if you think about it. It all depends on luck of the draw really when it comes to the Group Draw. For all we know, Canada could end up with a bad draw. They could end up with a good group draw. No one really knows so then why hedge your bets on that?

The problem with the hex is 29 nations would be eliminated almost 2 years before the World Cup takes place. Mathematically  it was harder to advance out of the semi final round (finish in top 2 of 4 teams) than it was to get to the intercontinental on playoffs and the World Cup (4th out of 6 teams)

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2 minutes ago, Alex said:

The problem with the hex is 29 nations would be eliminated almost 2 years before the World Cup takes place. Mathematically  it was harder to advance out of the semi final round (finish in top 2 of 4 teams) than it was to get to the intercontinental on playoffs and the World Cup (4th out of 6 teams)

Since you put it like that, then your logic makes sense. An oversight that I made but thinking about this now, the new format isn't so bad I guess. However, still have to hope that Canada gets a favorable group draw. Get a favorable one and then you can hope of either getting to Qatar in a direct spot or finishing in 2nd and earning your way into the inter continental playoff but then again the intercontinental playoff, does CONCACAF face Oceania, Asia or South America this time for the 2022 cycle?

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To be fair in 1958 it made sense because CONCACAF had 1 spot. It doesn't matter how you wittle down to 1 as long as it's fair. But when you have 3 spots, it makes zero sense. It might have been the case in the 30s and 50's when travel was expansive and even if nations were broke, how many of them are thinking of not entering in the top 13 in CONCACAF? Check which teams who have skipped out on WCQ's in the past 4 cycles, I doubt you'd see any of the 9 teams there. 

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11 hours ago, lamptern said:

Because the integrity of original system is compromized by pandemic. Teams outside of HEX couldn't finish their effort on gaining points in March and June friendly games. 

Anyway, I don't think CONCACAF could make a feasible plan before FIFA schdules the new  international match days or qualifier extension.

I disagree. There wasn't integrity in the system in the first place. When they announced it there were plenty of teams that had 0 chance of making it to the hex, even if they suddenly became as good as France overnight. Your objection is specifically because Canada still had a shot of making it to the hex and now they don't. I don't think they are going to change the system for that reason. If they change the system it is going to be because they don't have as many days to fit in games as they did before, not because a couple of friendly windows were missed.

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Posted (edited)

Why discuss unlikely hypothetical formats at this stage? We already know the road to Qatar is going to be 3 groups of 4 teams.

Leagues are opening back up, so I hope more wcq news is just around the corner. I am particularly interested in the repechage format. How will the best 2nd place team be determined? They haven't said it'll be group stage determined, right?

Edited by Obinna

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kent said:

I disagree. There wasn't integrity in the system in the first place. When they announced it there were plenty of teams that had 0 chance of making it to the hex, even if they suddenly became as good as France overnight. Your objection is specifically because Canada still had a shot of making it to the hex and now they don't. I don't think they are going to change the system for that reason. If they change the system it is going to be because they don't have as many days to fit in games as they did before, not because a couple of friendly windows were missed.

But the difference is the format was agreed upon and that was what was taking place. Because you didn't like it or someone else didnt like it is irrelevant. Nobody agreed on a format that would suddenly stop due to a global pandemic. Is it a bit of a sigh of relief for some(cough cough, us) sure but there is definitely legitimate reasons to change the format

Edited by SpursFlu

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Why discuss unlikely hypothetical formats at this stage? We already know the road to Qatar is going to be 3 groups of 4 teams.

Leagues are opening back up, so I hope more wcq news is just around the corner. I am particularly interested in the repechage format. How will the best 2nd place team be determined? They haven't said it'll be group stage determined, right?

Nothing has been confirmed. The three groups idea seems to be a leading candidate but it hasn't been finalized yet.

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7 minutes ago, Kyle_The_Hill said:

Nothing has been confirmed. The three groups idea seems to be a leading candidate but it hasn't been finalized yet.

We tossed around hypothetical formats because we had nothing to go on until the the report from Panamanian outlet RPC came out.

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https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2020/5/29/21274244/report-new-concacaf-world-cup-qualifying-format-12-teams-3-groups

The top 12 teams according to the FIFA World Rankings would be split into 3 groups of 4 for a double round robin, home-and-away round of qualifying matches. The winner of each group would earn direct qualification to the 2022 World Cup. The 2nd place team from each group would join the winner of the lower tier qualification tournament (which consists of teams 13-35 in the region) in a mini tournament. The winner of that 4-team bracket would advance to represent Concacaf in the inter-confederation playoff, where they could earn a spot in the World Cup with a win.

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44 minutes ago, Obinna said:

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2020/5/29/21274244/report-new-concacaf-world-cup-qualifying-format-12-teams-3-groups

The top 12 teams according to the FIFA World Rankings would be split into 3 groups of 4 for a double round robin, home-and-away round of qualifying matches. The winner of each group would earn direct qualification to the 2022 World Cup. The 2nd place team from each group would join the winner of the lower tier qualification tournament (which consists of teams 13-35 in the region) in a mini tournament. The winner of that 4-team bracket would advance to represent Concacaf in the inter-confederation playoff, where they could earn a spot in the World Cup with a win.

It cites the same source from Panama.

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3 minutes ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

It cites the same source from Panama.

Yeah I know. I provided that to show another interpretation of what the repechage may look like. We have been talking about it being the best 2nd place team based on group place, but here is another take on it... 

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Interesting to read the comments at the bottom of that story.  They seem more accepting of the hex's demise than I expected them to be.  They also have us in most of their group of death scenarios along with Jamaica and Haiti. 

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