The Road to Qatar.

[Alex]

Why are we even talking about cpl players being shafted by the national team? In actual fifa windows where our best are available cpl players don’t even see the pitch. Even if they can, you can easily slot in a lower league European guy to do the same job. I think my point is proven by the fact that the mvp of the league transferred to tier 2 Belgium. This isn’t a knock on the cpl, I hope the league thrives, it’s just reality. 

[Kent]

11 minutes ago, neuker said:

To me it seems like Infantino is trying to make-up lost windows with his efforts to create a super-sized window in November and December. If he is success there will be no need to reduce match days. We all know that Mt. Vic is vehemently opposed to playing a HEX. Why? Because he knows that for the past 22 years Canada hasn't been good enough to qualify for the HEX and he doesn't have 100% faith in the current batch of players to think that they do so this time around either. We, on this board, however, do have 100% confidence in our current players that they are good enough. I want to see Canada earn a spot, whereas Mt. Vic wants to gift Canada a spot. Remind you of anyone? Our international reputation is on the line. Who among us wants to have the rest of the world think; "See, those Canadians don't really belong to be competing with the world's best. They're only here because the CONCACAF president happens to come from Canada?" At least Warner, who fixed an easy pathway for T & T to make it to the HEX, still had 100% faith in his players that they could qualify for the World Cup if they got to the HEX.  Like several on this board have stated in recent days: "It's time to put up, or shut up!" 

If Infantino is successful in retaining the number of matchdays as originally planned, then there won't be any change to the format. If there is going to be a change to the format it's going to be because there are fewer matchdays. Vic has said many times that the reason he doesn't like the hex is because you have 29 teams out of the competition more than a year before the World Cup happens, and several countries play just 2 World Cup Qualifiers. I think that's a reasonable critique, regardless of where Canada falls into it.

[SpursFlu]

I want vic to gift Canada a spot. Cmon Rob we're Canada, we deserve a gift for once

[TGAA_Star]

Canada doesn't get any freebies...if they are as good as any team in CONCACAF, they should have no problem qualifying like the rest of the world, but in CONCACAF. Simple. Period.

[Kent]

46 minutes ago, neuker said:

Well, I guess as this pandemic runs its course we will see if Mt. Vic really meant what he said. Personally, I believe he going to stick it to all those countries he claims that were getting shafted under the "old, archaic format." In the end, it will be interesting to see who is right.

If the number of match days are going to be reduced, then CONCACAF will likely have to be eliminating teams with 2, or maybe even fewer games. As you illustrated with your proposal which failed to reduce the number of match days needed, it is very difficult to reduce the number of match days. For example, if you just made it a straight up knockout competition, playing home and away, it would take 12 matchdays to determine the 3.5 spots, only a savings of 2 days from the current system. So they may very well need to do some sort of a "neutral" venue tournament to cut the games in half if they are unable to maintain a similar number of match days.

If that happens, that doesn't mean Montagliani didn't mean what he said about giving the smaller nations more than 2 games. It means his hands were tied by unprecedented circumstances. Just like anyone who made plans before the pandemic but couldn't keep them. I guess every league of note didn't mean it when they posted their schedules. Those jerks are so untrustworthy and should be fired amirite?

[archer21]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

If the number of match days are going to be reduced, then CONCACAF will likely have to be eliminating teams with 2, or maybe even fewer games. As you illustrated with your proposal which failed to reduce the number of match days needed, it is very difficult to reduce the number of match days. For example, if you just made it a straight up knockout competition, playing home and away, it would take 12 matchdays to determine the 3.5 spots, only a savings of 2 days from the current system. So they may very well need to do some sort of a "neutral" venue tournament to cut the games in half if they are unable to maintain a similar number of match days.

If that happens, that doesn't mean Montagliani didn't mean what he said about giving the smaller nations more than 2 games. It means his hands were tied by unprecedented circumstances. Just like anyone who made plans before the pandemic but couldn't keep them. I guess every league of note didn't mean it when they posted their schedules. Those jerks are so untrustworthy and should be fired amirite?

I think if they go to an 8 match mega window, this neutral venue may be the case. I don’t think there’s really any way to get it under 12 matches with home and aways. Also, in concacaf to have 8 matches in a window, you couldn’t have teams traveling that far for that long. To ask Canada to go from Bc/Toronto to Central America/Caribbean that many times in a couple weeks doesn’t seem likely.

[Obinna]

11 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I think if they go to an 8 match mega window, this neutral venue may be the case. I don’t think there’s really any way to get it under 12 matches with home and aways. Also, in concacaf to have 8 matches in a window, you couldn’t have teams traveling that far for that long. To ask Canada to go from Bc/Toronto to Central America/Caribbean that many times in a couple weeks doesn’t seem likely.

I think we will punch above our weight with any format that involves neutral venues.

Or to put it another way, other teams (especially the central americans) will punch below their weight without enjoying their home field advantage, which is much stronger than ours.

Unfortunately, I think we have the weakest home field advantage of any team in the top 12.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Obinna

[xabuep2]

2 hours ago, archer21 said:

I think if they go to an 8 match mega window, this neutral venue may be the case. I don’t think there’s really any way to get it under 12 matches with home and aways. Also, in concacaf to have 8 matches in a window, you couldn’t have teams traveling that far for that long. To ask Canada to go from Bc/Toronto to Central America/Caribbean that many times in a couple weeks doesn’t seem likely.

I have a slight suspicion that if they only used one venue, it would be the Bradenton Florida Soccer Complex

[CanadianSoccerFan]

31 minutes ago, xabuep2 said:

I have a slight suspicion that if they only used one venue, it would be the Bradenton Florida Soccer Complex

CONCACAF has a real hard-on for that place.  

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, xabuep2 said:

I have a slight suspicion that if they only used one venue, it would be the Bradenton Florida Soccer Complex

Sorry - I confused this for the single CPL venue discussion, so thought this was a brilliant joke!

[An Observer]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I think we will punch above our weight with any format that involves neutral venues.

Or to put it another way, other teams (especially the central americans) will punch below their weight without enjoying their home field advantage, which is much stronger than ours.

Unfortunately, I think we have the weakest home field advantage of any team in the top 12.

hmmm.  Not sure.  If the neutral venue is in the states (which it likely would be), they would enjoy home support for every match...granted not like they would at home but these would be home matches for them.  For us, every match would be an away match.  Plus, we have had much better support in the recent past than previously and have on occasion used our cold climate to our advantage.

So if two legs are maintained, it would be therefore like comparing two home matches (of Canadian like quality) for the central american side versus two away matches for us; versus in a normal situation, one real home match for them with all that craziness against one home match for us perhaps in a cold conditions.  I think its debatable which one is better.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, An Observer said:

hmmm.  Not sure.  If the neutral venue is in the states (which it likely would be), they would enjoy home support for every match...granted not like they would at home but these would be home matches for them.  For us, every match would be an away match.  Plus, we have had much better support in the recent past than previously and have on occasion used our cold climate to our advantage.

So if two legs are maintained, it would be therefore like comparing two home matches (of Canadian like quality) for the central american side versus two away matches for us; versus in a normal situation, one real home match for them with all that craziness against one home match for us perhaps in a cold conditions.  I think its debatable which one is better.

Fair enough.

Assuming fans will be allowed to attend, which remains uncertain, it is true the USA and other central american teams would have fan support. Maybe we get some snowbirds out if it is in Florida as rumored, but I would not count on it. So yes, we would be at a disadvantage from that perspective.

However, I would still argue this disadvantage would not be any worse than a typical Gold Cup.

There would be no travel to Honduras or Panama, no fans throwing objects onto the field, no parties outside of the hotel late at night, etc. I think you could make the argument that even a not-so-neutral Florida is better than 1 game home and away. Even with the cold weather our home advantage is not so great, at least in comparison with what we deal with playing away in world cup qualifying. The poor results speak for themselves. How often have we qualified for the top-6 Hexagonal?

By comparison, we are 5th in the all-time Gold Cup table.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONCACAF_Gold_Cup

By the way, do you think they would actually do two legs in this scenario? What is the main advantage of doing so with no home or away games? Perhaps a Gold Cup style is more likely?

Edited May 15, 2020 by Obinna

[Kent]

I agreed with Obinna’s point about neutral vs home/away. And it is true that we typically do better in Gold Cups than World Cup Qualifying. But I do paradoxically think we are gaining a home field advantage.

Record in our last 17 competitive home field games, dating back to October 2008:

12 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss.

Wins against Saint Lucia, Saint Kitts, Panama, Cuba x2, Dominica x2, Belize, Honduras, El Salvador, French Guiana, USA. 8 of those wins are against relatively weak competition. Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, and USA are solid to very good competition.

Draws against Mexico, Puerto Rico, Honduras, Costa Rica. That’s one great team, 2 good teams and one weak team.

The one loss was to Mexico.

So maybe 4-3-1 against good competition is a good way to look at those numbers. We just need to turn more of those draws to wins, but we are getting there!

Edited May 22, 2020 by Kent
weakness changed to weak

[TGAA_Star]

Canada if they qualify and a very, very big if very big if but a hypothetical starting 11 at least for 2022 for me would look like this:

GK- Milan Borjan (35 years old)

LB- Sam Adekugbe (27 years old)

CB- Derek Cornelius (25 years old)

CB- Amer Didic (27 years old)

RB- Zachary Brault-Guillard (23 years old)

DM- Samuel Piette (28 years old)

CM- Scott Arfield (34 years old) (captain)

CM- Jonathan Osorio (30 years old)

AM- Alphonso Davies (22 years old)

LS- Jonathan David (22 years old)

RS- Cyle Larin (27 years old)

 

(Traditional 4-4-2 formation if Qatar 2022 started and Canada was in it, then this would be my lineup

 

Substitutes

GK- Maxime Crepeau, Dayne St Clair

LB- Liam Fraser, Doneil Henry, Kamal Miller, Callum Montgomery

RB- Richie Laryea

DM- Stephen Eustaquio 

CM- Noble Okello, Mark Anthony Kaye 

AM- Ryan Raposo

Striker- Lucas Cavallini

[BuzzAndSting]

54 minutes ago, neuker said:

I'd love to see that Canadian line-up take on the Netherlands in their opening group match of the Qatar World Cup.

Jasper Cillessen (Valencia)

Kevin Strootman (Olympique Marseille)

Matthijs de Ligt (Juventus)

Virgil van Dijk (Liverpool)

Daley Blind (Ajax)

Donny van der Beek (Ajax)

Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona)

Marten de Roon (Atalanta Bergamo)

Georginio Wijnaldum (Liverpool)

Memphis Depay (Lyon)

Donyell Malen (PSV)

Canada would crush the Netherlands.

[TGAA_Star]

16 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Canada would crush the Netherlands.

I doubt it especially with Netherlands' current team...Canada would get destroyed easily...that Netherlands is loaded with talent all across the board

 

Canada if they get to Qatar very big if, Canada wouldn't be able to beat the big teams especially the teams that have quality but at best Canada would probably get a draw if they are lucky

[BuzzAndSting]

Just now, TGAA_Star said:

I doubt it especially with Netherlands' current team...Canada would get destroyed easily...that Netherlands is loaded with talent all across the board

 

Canada if they get to Qatar very big if, Canada wouldn't be able to beat the big teams especially the teams that have quality but at best Canada would probably get a draw if they are lucky

No way, considering the Netherlands current team,  Canada would destroy them easily. Canada has way more talent across the board. 

When Canada gets to Qatar they'll definitely be able to beat the big teams, especially the teams that have quality but at worst Canada would get a draw, no doubt about it.

[Alex]

16 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

No way, considering the Netherlands current team,  Canada would destroy them easily. Canada has way more talent across the board. 

When Canada gets to Qatar they'll definitely be able to beat the big teams, especially the teams that have quality but at worst Canada would get a draw, no doubt about it.

Getting to Qatar is a very big if.

[TGAA_Star]

14 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

No way, considering the Netherlands current team,  Canada would destroy them easily. Canada has way more talent across the board. 

When Canada gets to Qatar they'll definitely be able to beat the big teams, especially the teams that have quality but at worst Canada would get a draw, no doubt about it.

That confident in Canada especially if they went up against world class teams like France, Germany, Portugal, Croatia, Argentina, Brazil, etc. let's be realistic here but let's just see if they even get to Qatar

 

If they can even qualify out of CONCACAF, then that will definitely be something but Canada's ranking in CONCACAF at the moment right now isn't exactly helping them in terms of position because if the Hex were still a thing, Canada wouldn't even be in it

 

But then again Vic said they may even expand on CONCACAF qualifying but that even remains to be seen

[CanadianSoccerFan]

51 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Canada would crush the Netherlands.

 

Don't needle Robert like that

[Obinna]

49 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

No way, considering the Netherlands current team,  Canada would destroy them easily. Canada has way more talent across the board. 

When Canada gets to Qatar they'll definitely be able to beat the big teams, especially the teams that have quality but at worst Canada would get a draw, no doubt about it.

Canada is going up because they have confident but Netherlands is going down even with players at big clubs but what do you think the score would be? I think for Canada they will score more goals with Davies at AM which is his best position, but David will score too from LS because if he moved to Lyon for playing time he will get more minutes and Depay would move to the bench, which is Netherlands biggest threat because of his consistence at Lyon and Manchester United, but let`s say they play I still think Canada wins because players like Jonathan David are become more total football and Netherlands is not really total football anymore. 

[BuzzAndSting]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Canada is going up because they have confident but Netherlands is going down even with players at big clubs but what do you think the score would be? I think for Canada they will score more goals with Davies at AM which is his best position, but David will score too from LS because if he moved to Lyon for playing time he will get more minutes and Depay would move to the bench, which is Netherlands biggest threat because of his consistence at Lyon and Manchester United, but let`s say they play I still think Canada wins because players like Jonathan David are become more total football and Netherlands is not really total football anymore. 

💯🔥👍🏼

[Kyle_The_Hill]

2 hours ago, neuker said:

I'd love to see that Canadian line-up take on the Netherlands in their opening group match of the Qatar World Cup.

Jasper Cillessen (Valencia)

Kevin Strootman (Olympique Marseille)

Matthijs de Ligt (Juventus)

Virgil van Dijk (Liverpool)

Daley Blind (Ajax)

Donny van der Beek (Ajax)

Frenkie de Jong (Barcelona)

Marten de Roon (Atalanta Bergamo)

Georginio Wijnaldum (Liverpool)

Memphis Depay (Lyon)

Donyell Malen (PSV)

Big assumption that Netherlands makes it to Qatar

[TGAA_Star]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Canada is going up because they have confident but Netherlands is going down even with players at big clubs but what do you think the score would be? I think for Canada they will score more goals with Davies at AM which is his best position, but David will score too from LS because if he moved to Lyon for playing time he will get more minutes and Depay would move to the bench, which is Netherlands biggest threat because of his consistence at Lyon and Manchester United, but let`s say they play I still think Canada wins because players like Jonathan David are become more total football and Netherlands is not really total football anymore. 

Okay but even so Netherlands have a top defense especially for Canada to even think of or to even try to penetrate a Netherlands backline of Van Dijk and De Ligt...not gonna happen

Canada wouldn't even be able to beat the world Champions France or don't even get me started on squads like Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Switzerland, England even, Portugal, Uruguay, Croatia, Belgium, etc I could go on and on

Canada if they got back to the World Cup...if they get back in 2022, their first in 36 years...I can't see the Group Draw being kind to Canada especially when they do the televised Final Group Draw

Canada if they get to Qatar very big if, best they could hope for is ending up in a favorable group

[TGAA_Star]

At best Canada would have to play friendlies with these teams before the World Cup, assuming they qualify and in the lead up to Qatar if they play friendlies it should be interesting to see who Canada would face in friendly matches