The Road to Qatar.

[Obinna]

https://www.lagalaxy.com/post/2020/01/13/tickets-el-salvador-vs-iceland-dignity-health-sports-park-sale

Look what I found. They are promoting the game here and tickets are being sold. Can you sell tickets for a training match? I would be surprised if you could...

[Floortom]

Weird

here they seem to be saying that they will compensate the promoter for lost ticket sales..but tickets are still being sold

https://elmundo.sv/si-no-jugabamos-contra-islandia-indemnizariamos-al-promotor/

 

not sure what’s going on. And it’s even more strange that they’re going these lengths to avoid Iceland while trying to schedule Euro matches in March ? Very confused strategy

[Kyle_The_Hill]

30 minutes ago, Obinna said:

https://www.lagalaxy.com/post/2020/01/13/tickets-el-salvador-vs-iceland-dignity-health-sports-park-sale

Look what I found. They are promoting the game here and tickets are being sold. Can you sell tickets for a training match? I would be surprised if you could...

From a different message board "Just naming a friendly a 'training match' is not enough for being excluded from the ranking. That has to be officially arranged with FIFA. AFAIK any team can ask FIFA to exclude a friendly match from the ranking, probably giving certain valid arguments to support that question. Arguments like "we are playing with a complete B or C team" or "we are going to substitute our complete team at half time". I don't think selling tickets or promoting the match are valid arguments AGAINST such a request to exclude."

We still haven't actually seen an article that includes a confirmation from FIFA that the match won't be for points but who knows.

[Kent]

So I'm guessing we will find out when the next rankings come out (February 20th) whether the game was a World Cup Qualifier or not.

2 hours ago, Kyle_The_Hill said:

I don't understand this, since there has been a June FIFA publish every year since 2010.

Under the old system there was new rankings published every month. For some reason under the new system they skip a bunch of months. It's really weird considering they calculate the rankings after each game anyways, why not just publish it? They don't even have to worry about points dropping in value as they age, so there is no excuse for them to not have it updated live, let alone published every month.

[Obinna]

22 minutes ago, Kyle_The_Hill said:

From a different message board "Just naming a friendly a 'training match' is not enough for being excluded from the ranking. That has to be officially arranged with FIFA. AFAIK any team can ask FIFA to exclude a friendly match from the ranking, probably giving certain valid arguments to support that question. Arguments like "we are playing with a complete B or C team" or "we are going to substitute our complete team at half time". I don't think selling tickets or promoting the match are valid arguments AGAINST such a request to exclude."

We still haven't actually seen an article that includes a confirmation from FIFA that the match won't be for points but who knows.

Thanks. Do you know if there is official criteria from fifa regarding what constitutes a "training" match?

I was thinking/hoping there is some stipulation that all "training" matches must be played behind closed doors, or something to that effect...

[Kyle_The_Hill]

21 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Thanks. Do you know if there is official criteria from fifa regarding what constitutes a "training" match?

I was thinking/hoping there is some stipulation that all "training" matches must be played behind closed doors, or something to that effect...

I'm not sure. I was trying to look that stuff up before myself.

Being a CMNT supporter is weird. Normal people look at me like I'm fucking crazy when I try to explain this stuff.

"Canada plays Iceland in a friendly tomorrow and it's really important we win because we'll gain 3 FIFA points, which we need to catch El Salvador who are also playing Iceland but their game is only a training match so it won't count towards FIFA points but because they're selling tickets it may not be considered training so they would lose FIFA points if they lose"

"Ok" 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

34 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Thanks. Do you know if there is official criteria from fifa regarding what constitutes a "training" match?

I was thinking/hoping there is some stipulation that all "training" matches must be played behind closed doors, or something to that effect...

I'm pretty sure that selling tickets is a BIG no-no!

http://canadasoccer.com/files/2018_19_LOTG_English.pdf

[Alex]

This is a true story:

 

sometimes when my wife can’t fall asleep I tell her how the qualifying system works and how El Salvador are trying to take advantage of how screwed up and dumb it is and she just passes right out. 

[Lansdude]

8 minutes ago, Kyle_The_Hill said:

I'm not sure. I was trying to look that stuff up before myself.

Being a CMNT supporter is weird. Normal people look at me like I'm ******* crazy when I try to explain this stuff.

"Canada plays Iceland in a friendly tomorrow and it's really important we win because we'll gain 3 FIFA points, which we need to catch El Salvador who are also playing Iceland but their game is only a training match so it won't count towards FIFA points but because they're selling tickets it may not be considered training so they would lose FIFA points if they lose"

"Ok" 

Add to that all the roster/salary rules in MLS and it takes a bit of taste for the esoteric to be a domestic soccer fan.

[toontownman]

El Salvador are only counting the game as legit for Fifa points if they win or draw.  If they are losing they will throw on a 7th sub to nullify the game lol 

[Lansdude]

3 minutes ago, toontownman said:

El Salvador are only counting the game as legit for Fifa points if they win or draw.  If they are losing they will throw on a 7th sub to nullify the game lol 

One weird trick.

[dyslexic nam]

21 minutes ago, Alex said:

This is a true story:

 

sometimes when my wife can’t fall asleep I tell her how the qualifying system works and how El Salvador are trying to take advantage of how screwed up and dumb it is and she just passes right out. 

Sure she can sleep, but then you are stuck in bed with clenched fists  just thinking about those bastards. 

[dyslexic nam]

10 minutes ago, toontownman said:

El Salvador are only counting the game as legit for Fifa points if they win or draw.  If they are losing they will throw on a 7th sub to nullify the game lol 

I am honestly wondering if there is a bit of truth to this. 

[El Diego]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

I am honestly wondering if there is a bit of truth to this. 

Surely a declaration must be made before the game.

[dyslexic nam]

22 minutes ago, El Diego said:

Surely a declaration must be made before the game.

Yeah, because CONCACAF and FIFA would never allow anything shady.

Edited January 14, 2020 by dyslexic nam

[El Diego]

I don't know who's being tongue in cheek or what not, but the laws are pretty clear on this one:

"In national 'A' team matches, a maximum of twelve substitutes may be named of which a maximum of six may be used. In all other matches, a greater number of substitutes may be used provided that:

• the teams reach agreement on a maximum number

• the referee is informed before the match

If the referee is not informed, or if no agreement is reached before the match, each team is allowed a maximum of six substitutes."

There is no 'trick' to throwing on a 7th sub to nullify a match. If one did want to do that it would require a dumb level of collusion.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, because CONCACAF and FIFA would allow anything shady.

If you can have a dumpster fire of a farcical lack of information, this would be one.

That said, the fact that our making the Hex may depend on how many and how fast we can jam in minnow friendlies into an unknown time period already has us well along that road.  

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I don't know who's being tongue in cheek or what not, but the laws are pretty clear on this one:

"In national 'A' team matches, a maximum of twelve substitutes may be named of which a maximum of six may be used. In all other matches, a greater number of substitutes may be used provided that:

• the teams reach agreement on a maximum number

• the referee is informed before the match

If the referee is not informed, or if no agreement is reached before the match, each team is allowed a maximum of six substitutes."

There is no 'trick' to throwing on a 7th sub to nullify a match. If one did want to do that it would require a dumb level of collusion.

I think most things are tongue in cheek at this point.

[archer21]

Does anyone know someone in Canada soccer that they could ask about whether the ES game is for points or not? Surely the CSA would know. Or is there a reporter that everyone could tweet at looking for an answer?

[El Diego]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think most things are tongue in cheek at this point.

It's so hard to tell sometimes

Anyway I was just thinking that the substitution amount law isn't actually what is relevant, it's whether the match is an actual national 'A' match in the first place.

[Zem]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Thanks. Do you know if there is official criteria from fifa regarding what constitutes a "training" match?

I was thinking/hoping there is some stipulation that all "training" matches must be played behind closed doors, or something to that effect...

Nope, the only difference is whether or not the match is officially sanctioned by FIFA. If it is, it must follow the relevant rules to be considered an international "A" friendly (6 from 12 substitutes, uses the FIFA Laws of the Game, uses a registered international officiating crew from a third country, players are officially registered with their national teams, etc.) and therefore count for ranking purposes.

If the match isn't sanctioned, anything goes, it's like a neighbourhood pickup game as far as FIFA is concerned. The teams can use whatever rules or players they want, but the match obviously won't count for ranking points. It can be closed-door, open-door or whatever, it's none of FIFA's concern.

[Corazon]

A little off topic and I'm sure it's already been mentioned on here before.  Our Pre-Gold Cup training match vs Trinidad & Tobago in June was a "training match"  Does anyone know how many points we would have earned if that was an "official" friendly?  

I am curious as to how much closer we would be to El Salvador.

[Obinna]

Anyone else wondering if El Salvador and the promoter will conspire against us here? Promoter gives out free tickets so the match is no longer offical and El Salvador compensates them for their troubles? 

Most may call that crazy. El Salvador may call that crazy (like a fox)!

[El Diego]

19 minutes ago, Zem said:

Nope, the only difference is whether or not the match is officially sanctioned by FIFA. If it is, it must follow the relevant rules to be considered an international "A" friendly (6 from 12 substitutes, uses the FIFA Laws of the Game, uses a registered international officiating crew from a third country, players are officially registered with their national teams, etc.) and therefore count for ranking purposes.

If the match isn't sanctioned, anything goes, it's like a neighbourhood pickup game as far as FIFA is concerned. The teams can use whatever rules or players they want, but the match obviously won't count for ranking points. It can be closed-door, open-door or whatever, it's none of FIFA's concern.

This sounds right, but keep in mind the following [FIFA Statues 2015, Article 82(1]):

"The Executive Committee shall be responsible for issuing regulations for organising international matches and competitions between representative teams and between Leagues, Club and/or scratch teams. No such match or competition shall take place without the prior permission of FIFA, the Confederations and/or the Members in accordance with the Regulations Governing International Matches."

El Salvador and Iceland are members playing on another member's (USA's) territory. I think what Obinna may be asking is something like, can these members make money off of a non-FIFA-sanctioned match? I would think that is really why the above rule is in place, frankly -- so that FIFA can charge levies on its members. Of course, two countries can always do whatever they want -- FIFA isn't going to physically stop them. But FIFA gives itself basically unlimited power to do what it wants so you probably don't want to piss them off. EDIT: Thinking about it a bit more, the above Article may also simply exist to ensure that only FIFA is able to sanction official matches, rather than to stop non-official matches.

The story seems to be that El Salvador, Iceland, and the USA signed off on this being a tier 1 (or national 'A', whatever you wanna call it) international match, and that El Salvador wants to renege but it's too late so they are asking FIFA to us its power [Ibid., Article 84(2)] to make this a non official match.

I'm speculating a lot, of course, but I find this fun. I don't know what FIFA cares about in this situation. It probably just wants money from this match even if it's not really a money spinning tie. The thing is, the host country is the one that does the final accounting of the match, so the US is a player if money is a factor. Perhaps I'm being too dramatic with my analysis, but it's easy to imagine this type of thing to be pretty cloak & dagger.

[Obinna]

I also think it would be funny if El Salvador actually wins after going through all this rigamarole to ensure no fifa points are on the table.