The Road to Qatar.

[xabuep2]

For days the atmosphere has been heating up regarding the Panama vs. Dominican Republic game, mostly on social media. Here, however, there is full confidence that we will move on to the next round. I share with you the list of players canaleros: 

One of the tweets where they make fun of our baseball stadium adapted as a soccer field for our June matches

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by xabuep2

[Kent]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

The other thing people don't seem to want to acknowledge is how this chant is not actually discriminating against players for their sexual orientation. That makes it different from throwing bananas at black players and making monkey noises. You can all see the difference, right?

Yes, there is that difference, but this chant in my view is saying "you kick like you are gay (or maybe a woman?)". It's like saying "You are <insert negative stereotype here> like a black man". You are saying it to someone who isn't black, but you are offending all black people.

Sure the people chanting it may believe in gay marriage so don't believe themselves to be homophobic, but when you stop and think about it, they are using the term as a put-down. Equivalent to saying "That is so gay" to be negative about something.

[TGAA_Star]

3 minutes ago, xabuep2 said:

For days the atmosphere has been heating up regarding the Panama vs. Dominican Republic game, mostly on social media. Here, however, there is full confidence that we will move on to the next round. I share with you the list of players canaleros: 

One of the tweets where they make fun of our baseball stadium adapted as a soccer field for our June matches

 

Love that Panama vs Dominican Republic is getting so chippy

[archer21]

19 hours ago, sebdeserio said:

That punishes Mexico's opponents as well though.

Am I interpreting this correctly that it punishes their other opponents because their opponent on that day gets a free 3 points? Couldn’t they just finish the game, award the opponent whatever points they earned, and strip Mexico of their points earned? So if it’s a Mexico win over Honduras, Mexico gets 0 points and Honduras gets 0 points. If Mexico and Honduras draw, Mexico gets 0 points, Honduras gets 1 points, etc.

[dyslexic nam]

Just now, archer21 said:

Am I interpreting this correctly that it punishes their other opponents because their opponent on that day gets a free 3 points? Couldn’t they just finish the game, award the opponent whatever points they earned, and strip Mexico of their points earned? So if it’s a Mexico win over Honduras, Mexico gets 0 points and Honduras gets 0 points. If Mexico and Honduras draw, Mexico gets 0 points, Honduras gets 1 points, etc.

In theory, that would still give an advantage to their competitors in the group and potentially disrupt the final ranking of qualifiers.  

[archer21]

Just now, dyslexic nam said:

In theory, that would still give an advantage to their competitors in the group and potentially disrupt the final ranking of qualifiers.  

It would give them an advantage over Mexico but isn’t that the whole point of the punishment? It gets rid of the collateral damage where one team gets free points and another doesn’t.

[sebdeserio]

38 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Am I interpreting this correctly that it punishes their other opponents because their opponent on that day gets a free 3 points? Couldn’t they just finish the game, award the opponent whatever points they earned, and strip Mexico of their points earned? So if it’s a Mexico win over Honduras, Mexico gets 0 points and Honduras gets 0 points. If Mexico and Honduras draw, Mexico gets 0 points, Honduras gets 1 points, etc.

No I meant the empty stadium punishes the opponents as well.

[archer21]

47 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

No I meant the empty stadium punishes the opponents as well.

In what way? You’d think that gives the opponent a competitive advantage wouldn’t it? Or at least remove the advantage Mexico would have of playing in front of their fans?

[sebdeserio]

13 minutes ago, archer21 said:

In what way? You’d think that gives the opponent a competitive advantage wouldn’t it? Or at least remove the advantage Mexico would have of playing in front of their fans?

Sure having no one might nullify Mexico's advantage but an empty stadium punishes the opponents and their fans as well. Even if say 90% of the fans would be Mexican what did the 10% Jamaican/Costa Rican/Canadian/etc do to be barred from watching their team?  

[costarg]

14 hours ago, Obinna said:

This is far more likely. Taking points away destroys the integrity of the competition.

When I think of points reduction I think about Juve and Milan, but that came as a result of those clubs cheating.

That is entirely different than punishing the Mexican players, coaches and federation for something they didn't do. It would be unprecedented and frankly out of bounds.

I would disagree, but you could argue the FMF should be held partly responsible during home games, but what do you do about Mexican fans in the United States? Punish the FMF? They have no jurisdiction there. It would be beyond ludicrous.

Managing this issue is pretty darn close to impossible.  It's way too easy to con the system.  Here's one example: 20 buddies and I (CANMNT fans) casually go to a match in Mexico, we start shouting the forbidden word, a few more beer filled fans automatically follow, but the heaviest voices aren't even Mexico supporters, it's heard, and FIFA makes Mexico play in an empty stadium next match.  Mexico will be blaming themselves while we leave laughing and celebrating having pulled off a great con job.

Edited May 31, 2021 by costarg

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Yes, there is that difference, but this chant in my view is saying "you kick like you are gay (or maybe a woman?)". It's like saying "You are <insert negative stereotype here> like a black man". You are saying it to someone who isn't black, but you are offending all black people.

Sure the people chanting it may believe in gay marriage so don't believe themselves to be homophobic, but when you stop and think about it, they are using the term as a put-down. Equivalent to saying "That is so gay" to be negative about something.

Couldn't agree more. It is offensive to other fans in the stadium, but it is not discrimination against the player. 

This may not seem like an important distinction, because either way it's offensive, but in another sense it is an important distinction to make, because calling it discrimination is flimsy and easy to dismiss and shrug off.

If they want to succeed here, and if they haven't done so already, FIFA should get clear that no offensive language of a discriminatory nature should be permitted by fans in the stadium.

I believe that wording would remove any ambiguity and allows them to properly address this issue.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Obinna

[Obinna]

33 minutes ago, costarg said:

Managing this issue is pretty darn close to impossible.  It's way to easy to con the system.  Here's one example: 20 buddies and I (CANMNT fans) casually go to a match in Mexico, we start shouting the forbidden word, a few more beer filled fans automatically follow, but the heaviest voices aren't even Mexico supporters, it's heard, and FIFA makes Mexico play in an empty stadium next match.  Mexico will be blaming themselves while we leave laughing and celebrating having pulled off a great con job.

I completely agree with this and it crossed my mind as well. Who's to stop one group of fans dressing up as another group of fans to sabotage their opponents? We probably actually wouldn't do this, but I wouldn't put it past Honduran or Salvadorian fans to do it to the Mexicans, for example. We know they collectively want to win at all costs. 

This is the drawback of punishing a team or federation for the actions of fans. If you want to punish anyone, punish those fans who engage in the chant, but first give yourself the grounds to go after them. At least in this quote, FIFA doesn't do that:

“discrimination of any kind on account of race, skin colour, ethnic, national or social origin ... religion, sexual orientation is strictly prohibited and punishable by suspension or expulsion.”

[ted]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:07 AM, TGAA_Star said:

I can see it being Piette but I would give it to Davies personally.

I have never understood this sort of hero-worship BS. Being the most talented player on a team is in NO WAY qualification to be a captain. At least not in the mind of anyone who actually believes the position means anything.

 

[yomurphy1]

58 minutes ago, ted said:

I have never understood this sort of hero-worship BS. Being the most talented player on a team is in NO WAY qualification to be a captain. At least not in the mind of anyone who actually believes the position means anything.

 

Agreed... for now.  That said as Alphonso matures I see no reason why he can't be a future captain. The man has risen to basically every challenge put in front of him. That's the sort of player I want leading the team. 

[Kent]

3 hours ago, sebdeserio said:

Sure having no one might nullify Mexico's advantage but an empty stadium punishes the opponents and their fans as well. Even if say 90% of the fans would be Mexican what did the 10% Jamaican/Costa Rican/Canadian/etc do to be barred from watching their team?  

I have to assume you are talking about a Gold Cup context? If you are talking about a home game for Mexico, it's not like this would be the first time fans aren't allowed at a game due to fan behaviour. Banning fans from Mexican home games should absolutely be on the table for this kind of thing.

[sebdeserio]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I have to assume you are talking about a Gold Cup context? If you are talking about a home game for Mexico, it's not like this would be the first time fans aren't allowed at a game due to fan behaviour. Banning fans from Mexican home games should absolutely be on the table for this kind of thing.

Yeah a Gold Cup context. For say the Octo it would definitely be effective.

But then we get in the muddy waters of trying to dictate what is meant in a different language and culture. And although Latin American culture in general isn't the most accepting of LBTQ+, Mexican fans have a point when they point out FIFA's hypocrisy by hosting a World Cup in Qatar, where you can be jailed up to 7 years for being gay. 

But money talks.

Edited May 31, 2021 by sebdeserio

[VinceA]

Just saw the Montserrat team and they got one of three Willock brothers to accept a call up. If he enjoys his time this could lead to the other two joining him. I'm very interested in seeing how they do this window.

[trc2014]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:39 PM, trc2014 said:

I wonder if he will be in the 10 person practice squad.  Good substitute for him missing the January camp to get a feel for the program.  Can then comfortably make his decision for the Gold Cup rosters.

I stand by this, I think he still wants to make a GC decision and he is not 100% decided.

[Watchmen]

Not sure if this got mentioned earlier in the thread (I didn't see it but easily could have missed it), but Crepeau's absence from the team is that his wife is expecting shortly.

[An Observer]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canadian-men-face-crucial-stretch-of-concacaf-world-cup-qualifying/

 

[SpursFlu]

Why not give them a taste of their own medicine. Mexico is the most obese nation on earth. I know something we do in the Southside during goal kicks that might hit the mark

Or how about "you homophobic bastard"

Edited June 1, 2021 by SpursFlu

[SthMelbRed]

44 minutes ago, An Observer said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canadian-men-face-crucial-stretch-of-concacaf-world-cup-qualifying/

 

Is this when I'm supposed to go on a rant about you posting a link to a G&M article that's behind a paywall? I'm not sure of the exact protocols here. 😄 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

@xabuep2 I think it is funny that fans from a baseball country like the D. R. are mocking Panama.

What happened to the Estadio Olímpico Rommel Fernández?

What about the small Estadio Maracaná?

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

13 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

I'm not sure of the exact protocols here. 😄 

1) It's a CP article. Most of the CP articles about the #CanMNT or #CanWNT are written by Neil Davidson.

2) As a CP it gets posted in many locations that have no paywall

Example:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/canadian-men-face-crucial-stretch-191753573.html

3) Davidson's articles are the most vanilla ones. He isn't writing for the superfans. @SthMelbRed , you're a knowledgeable poster and I already know that there isn't anything in there you don't already know.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[SpursFlu]

39 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

@xabuep2 I think it is funny that fans from a baseball country like the D. R. are mocking Panama.

What happened to the Estadio Olímpico Rommel Fernández?

What about the small Estadio Maracaná?

I'm calling the upset