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Binky

The Road to Qatar.

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12 hours ago, Binky said:

Even after last week's grand announcement: "Concacaf Announces Format for the 2022 FIFA World Cup Confederation Qualifiers," I am dumbfounded by how many unanswered questions remain regarding the CONCACAF 2022 FIFA World Cup Confederation Qualifiers. Is Victor Montagliani making the format up as he goes along? Where is the transparency and full-disclosure Victor Montagliani spoke of when grabbing the stage and telling the world that Canada could not support someone like Sepp Blatter? Is Victor Montagliani capable of drafting up a format in a timely fashion that leaves no stone unturned? Thus far, there has been no evidence of that! Is Victor Montagliani competent enough the look after the affairs of a soccer confederation like CONCACAF? Is Victor Montagliani demonstrating that he has the business acumen that will be required when CONCACAF hosts the next World Cup in 2026? 

https://www.concacaf.com/world-cup-qualifying-men/article/concacaf-announces-format-for-the-2022-fifa-world-cup-confederation-qualifiers

We get it, you’re not a fan of Vic. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alex said:

We get it, you’re not a fan of Vic. 

The fact is that soccer always has been one of the greatest loves of my life, which has brought me so much joy for more than a half century. It is not easy being as passionate about soccer as I am and living in Canada. Thank God I was born in the Netherlands, where soccer infused that love and passion, and has always made me feel happy and very proud. Another great love of mine is Canada, which has been my home since 1969. I have always yearned for that same happiness and pride to come from Canadian soccer, however, with the exception of qualifying for the 1986 World Cup and capturing the Gold Cup in 2000 there has not been much happiness or achievements to be proud of. Out of the 50 years I have lived here, there have been viewer than 50 international friendlies by the CMNT, and even less for the CWNT. Counting this year, there have only been 7 seasons out of 50 years that there was a domestic league. And will we ever be able to forget the humiliating San Pedro Sula defeat that happened in 2012?

So please forgive me, now that we finally have a Canadian governing soccer in the CONCACAF region we live in, who feels so inclined to make drastic changes which really let Canada have it up the rear end at a time when we finally have a golden crop of young talent, that I get extremely irate at this fat imbecile. Sadly, Canadian soccer has never had a visionary at the helm who is capable of taking our game to the next level, and until that happens we will continue to compete internationally primarily against Caribbean minnows. Just look at who has recently presided and managed over the game in this country: The Pipe, Mt. Pete and Mt. Vic!!! It has gone from: awful, to worst than awful, to how awful can it possibly get?

All I want right now is to start getting excited and enthusiastic about the Road to Qatar for Canada, before my heart gets broken once again. Under the old CONCACAF qualifying format, I would get excited, enthusiastic and even hopeful at the commencement of every new World Cup cycle. With Mt. Vic's "long awaited, incompletely revealed, having to pay attention to the FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings for another year, new format which has the likely potential of having to play 12 matches against unattractive opponents before we are eligible to play some real matches if we make it that far...?" No, I'm just not getting those excited, enthusiastic and hopeful feelings this time around. I'm really trying, but Mt. Vic is killing those feelings, and it hurts, BIG TIME! 

Edited by Binky

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I still think this qualifying format is a joke that was leaked and concacaf is in on the joke, there is no way in hell any format could possibly be this stupid. It doesn't even make sense having 2 separate and completely different paths for one confederation. In no sport in history have I ever seen that.

If this format stands, Canada won't play a world cup qualifier for almost 12 years!! This world cup is already over,  and we will probably get a free pass to 2026. It's really unfortunate, world cup qualifying games are ones I look forward to most and it's been taken away from us

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18 hours ago, jtpc said:

In the example above, I wonder how they would determine the 4 quarter-final matchups once the group stage was finished.

Would the seeding create the QF matchups in a 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, 3 vs. 6, 4 vs. 5 format?

Would they put the top 4 seeded group winners in a pot, the bottom 4 in another, and draw the matchups that way?

I would hope it wouldn't be an open draw as there's a big difference between getting Panama as your next opponent and getting Saint Kitts and Nevis. You'd think CONCACAF would want to guard against a scenario where totally unbalanced quarter-finals could occur from an open draw (1 could end up playing 2, while 7 could end up playing 8), but you never know what CONCACAF thinks is logical.

If it's not Mexico or the USA, CONCACAF don't care.

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Quick question : When UEFA draws the 2nd place teams for the remaining head to head spots.... do they have a Pot 1 and Pot 2 or is it an open draw?

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1 hour ago, Binky said:

All I want right now is to start getting excited and enthusiastic about the Road to Qatar for Canada, before my heart gets broken once again. Under the old CONCACAF qualifying format, I would get excited, enthusiastic and even hopeful at the commencement of every new World Cup cycle. With Mt. Vic's "long awaited, incompletely revealed, having to pay attention to the FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings for another year, new format which has the likely potential of having to play 12 matches against unattractive opponents before we are eligible to play some real matches if we make it that far...?" No, I'm just not getting those excited, enthusiastic and hopeful feelings this time around. I'm really trying, but Mt. Vic is killing those feelings, and it hurts, BIG TIME! 

Exactly how I feel.  The unfair format kills the hope and excitement.  Mt. Vic is doing what most modern politicians do in selling out their own (in this case all the players and fans of the teams not US/Mex/CR) to pander to the richest (US / Mex and the corrupt minnow officials).

We can only hope the other associations in similar situation to Canada are putting up far more of a fight against this sham.  I wonder if anyone in a position of influence has a problem, or have they all drank the Koolaid?

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1 hour ago, apbsmith said:

Quick question : When UEFA draws the 2nd place teams for the remaining head to head spots.... do they have a Pot 1 and Pot 2 or is it an open draw?

They initially say that it will be an open draw but when the group phase does not go as expected and the play offs end up with a couple of teams they do not want to play each other, they suddenly change their minds and seed it (top 4 all get drawn against bottom 4).

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Does anyone think that this format got passed and (I assume) accepted by all 35 countries due to the fact that the 7-35 nations don’t have to face anyone in the top 6? What I’m asking is, was the temptation of not playing a top 6 team so great everyone overlooked the fact that you get a 0.5 in 29 shot rather than a 3.5 in 6 shot? 

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42 minutes ago, Alex said:

Does anyone think that this format got passed and (I assume) accepted by all 35 countries due to the fact that the 7-35 nations don’t have to face anyone in the top 6? What I’m asking is, was the temptation of not playing a top 6 team so great everyone overlooked the fact that you get a 0.5 in 29 shot rather than a 3.5 in 6 shot? 

There's no way everyone is that dumb ... right?  My sense is that teams who are in the 15-35 don't mind it since they don't have to play the top 6 (a plus), and they were never going to qualify anyway, so no big loss.  On average, more of the games they play will be "competitive" (i.e. not vs. top 6) and their chance of qualifying went from 0.001 to 0.0001, or whatever.  That's 21 teams right there!

The top teams: Mex, U.S., CR, Honduras will obviously love this format since it eliminates all chances of an upset before the HEX.  That's 4 more teams in favor ...

Leaving 10 teams or so who might realize that this could be really bad for them ... at the moment, ES doesn't care, they're all for it!  As is Jamaica ... it really just screws 8 teams, including Canada, Panama, T&T, Haiti, etc. who would otherwise have had a realistic shot at the HEX.  When you think about it, it is a brilliant piece of f**king some teams over while gaining the support of a majority!

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What really gets me is the fact that Russia 2018 ended over a year ago. No problem.

In the past there has always been a one-year period of inactivity between the completion of a World Cup Final and the commencement of the first rounds of qualifying for the next World Cup. Like I said, no problem.

However, here we are, one year after Russia 2018 ended, and now we, all of the fans here in CONCACAF, are are stuck twiddling our thumbs for more than another year waiting for Mt. Vic's World Cup qualifying format to get started.

Now I find all of this extremely rich coming from Mt. Vic, especially after he stated repeatedly the following reason for changing the old format:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2016/10/13/concacaf-says-its-world-cup-qualifying-is-archiaic-its-solution-is-pure-politics/?utm_term=.5f2dbd0851b8

“Can you imagine you are a country trying to find a sponsor and they say, ‘I’m all for it, when’s your next big game?’ And it’s three years from now,” Montagliani said.

Can you say "Hyp·o·crite?"

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1 hour ago, Binky said:

What really gets me is the fact that Russia 2018 ended over a year ago. No problem.

In the past there has always been a one-year period of inactivity between the completion of a World Cup Final and the commencement of the first rounds of qualifying for the next World Cup. Like I said, no problem.

However, here we are, one year after Russia 2018 ended, and now we, all of the fans here in CONCACAF, are are stuck twiddling our thumbs for more than another year waiting for Mt. Vic's World Cup qualifying format to get started.

Now I find all of this extremely rich coming from Mt. Vic, especially after he stated repeatedly the following reason for changing the old format:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2016/10/13/concacaf-says-its-world-cup-qualifying-is-archiaic-its-solution-is-pure-politics/?utm_term=.5f2dbd0851b8

“Can you imagine you are a country trying to find a sponsor and they say, ‘I’m all for it, when’s your next big game?’ And it’s three years from now,” Montagliani said.

Can you say "Hyp·o·crite?"

And the idea of it providing more competitive games. The reality might not feel like it when a minnow goes up against Panama and Guatemala in the first window and lose both games. With only the group winners moving on, teams losing their first two games will know that they are essentially already eliminated.

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16 minutes ago, Kent said:

And the idea of it providing more competitive games. The reality might not feel like it when a minnow goes up against Panama and Guatemala in the first window and lose both games. With only the group winners moving on, teams losing their first two games will know that they are essentially already eliminated.

So those teams thought they had a chance?!!

Like San Marino or Faroe Islands in UEFA, where exactly the same thing happens, those small teams are just there for the matches: they know they are essentially already eliminated before a ball is even kicked.

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2 hours ago, Binky said:

What really gets me is the fact that Russia 2018 ended over a year ago. No problem.

In the past there has always been a one-year period of inactivity between the completion of a World Cup Final and the commencement of the first rounds of qualifying for the next World Cup. Like I said, no problem.

However, here we are, one year after Russia 2018 ended, and now we, all of the fans here in CONCACAF, are are stuck twiddling our thumbs for more than another year waiting for Mt. Vic's World Cup qualifying format to get started.

Now I find all of this extremely rich coming from Mt. Vic, especially after he stated repeatedly the following reason for changing the old format:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2016/10/13/concacaf-says-its-world-cup-qualifying-is-archiaic-its-solution-is-pure-politics/?utm_term=.5f2dbd0851b8

“Can you imagine you are a country trying to find a sponsor and they say, ‘I’m all for it, when’s your next big game?’ And it’s three years from now,” Montagliani said.

Can you say "Hyp·o·crite?"

I mean they added the Nations League so its not like they don’t have any competitive games

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, canta15 said:

I mean they added the Nations League so its not like they don’t have any competitive games

True, but aside from the results of Nations League matches being factored into the FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings they really don't represent much else. Out of the three CONCACAF competitions, the only ones that are really relevant are; first and foremost World Cup qualifying. Nothing trumps that! And next the Gold Cup, which is emblematic of the confederation championship. Nations League matches represent nothing! They are boring and unimportant. All they do is segregated and cater to making money for the elite.

If you have a small rock in the Caribbean Sea, with a few thousand people on it, they will always be eliminated in the first round of any competition, no matter what format you use. It's like if you're 4' 8" you will never play in the NBA, or like me, at 260 lbs., I know that I will never ride on a horse in the Kentucky Derby. These Caribbean midgets are welcome to play into any competition they wish, and are welcome to suffer as many losses at they want to incur, but they will never, I repeat never beat any other CONCACAF country over two matches or more. NEVER! Montserrat will NEVER, NEVER, EVER beat Canada in a home and home series no matter how bad a team we field. NEVER. So Victor giving countries like Montserrat 4 or 6 World Cup qualifiers instead of the regular 2 represents nothing more than him pandering for votes to keep his job. It does absolutely nothing for the good of soccer.

Mt. Vic's type definitely knows nothing about true patriot love. For him, it's all about Mt. Vic.

Edited by Binky

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11 hours ago, Addona said:

There's no way everyone is that dumb ... right?  My sense is that teams who are in the 15-35 don't mind it since they don't have to play the top 6 (a plus), and they were never going to qualify anyway, so no big loss.  On average, more of the games they play will be "competitive" (i.e. not vs. top 6) and their chance of qualifying went from 0.001 to 0.0001, or whatever.  That's 21 teams right there!

The top teams: Mex, U.S., CR, Honduras will obviously love this format since it eliminates all chances of an upset before the HEX.  That's 4 more teams in favor ...

Leaving 10 teams or so who might realize that this could be really bad for them ... at the moment, ES doesn't care, they're all for it!  As is Jamaica ... it really just screws 8 teams, including Canada, Panama, T&T, Haiti, etc. who would otherwise have had a realistic shot at the HEX.  When you think about it, it is a brilliant piece of f**king some teams over while gaining the support of a majority!

This!

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18 hours ago, Lofty said:

So those teams thought they had a chance?!!

Like San Marino or Faroe Islands in UEFA, where exactly the same thing happens, those small teams are just there for the matches: they know they are essentially already eliminated before a ball is even kicked.

No, the teams don't think they had a chance. But, for example, in 2018 qualifying the first round had 14 teams playing a home and away series. Nobody in there thinks they have a chance at making the World Cup, but they probably do feel like they have a chance at advancing past that round, which would be an accomplishment in itself.

I'm just trying to point out that the benefit to these teams is perhaps more minimal than it appears at first glance.

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Out of curiosity, I compiled this for 2018 WCQ

2 games: 13 teams - Bahamas, British Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Anguilla, Cayman Islands, Montserrat, Guyana, Saint Lucia, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Suriname

4 games: 7 teams - Dominica, Bermuda, Barbados, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Grenada, Aruba, Antigua and Barbuda

6 games: 3 teams - Curacao, Belize, Nicaragua

8 games: 2 teams - Haiti, Jamaica

10 games: 4 teams - Canada, El Salvador, Guatemala, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines

16 games: 5 teams - Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, United States, Trinidad and Tobago

18 games: 1 team - Honduras (including inter-continental playoff)

I can't quite compile the same numbers precisely for 2022 qualifying because of the 3 team groups in the 7-35 tournament. For example, there will be a different number of games for a team from a group of 4 going to the semi final, vs the number of games from a 3 team group going to the semi final.

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Also out of curiosity, consider the following:

1) The 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup ran from June 15th to July 7th.

2) Concacaf Announced the format for the 2022 FIFA World Cup Confederation Qualifiers on July 10th.

Should the announcement not have been made before the Gold Cup kicked off?

Wouldn't coaches be more inclinded to field their strongest line-ups for every match if they had know about Mt. Vic's format in advance?

Who and how many CONCACAF committee members knew what Mt. Vic's format was before it was announced?

Is it possible these individuals could have leaked the new format to their Football Associations, thus giving them an advantage over those Football Associations left in the day?

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50 minutes ago, Binky said:

Also out of curiosity, consider the following:

1) The 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup ran from June 15th to July 7th.

2) Concacaf Announced the format for the 2022 FIFA World Cup Confederation Qualifiers on July 10th.

Should the announcement not have been made before the Gold Cup kicked off?

Wouldn't coaches be more inclinded to field their strongest line-ups for every match if they had know about Mt. Vic's format in advance?

Who and how many CONCACAF committee members knew what Mt. Vic's format was before it was announced?

Is it possible these individuals could have leaked the new format to their Football Associations, thus giving them an advantage over those Football Associations left in the day?

1) Sure.

2) Not really, unless their federation didn't tell them about it.

3) From the looks of it, all knew except Guatemala who was suspended when this format was decided

4) See 3)

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3 hours ago, Blackdude said:

1) Sure.

2) Not really, unless their federation didn't tell them about it.

3) From the looks of it, all knew except Guatemala who was suspended when this format was decided

4) See 3)

re 2) Does this mean that Herdman must have known, prior to the Gold Cup match against Mexico, that the FIFA/Coca-Cola rankings were going to be used to determine which countries get into the HEX next year?

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It does seem odd that they wouldn’t let the fans know before the tournament. It puts more importance on the tournament, so why not let people know in order to draw more interest?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kent said:

It does seem odd that they wouldn’t let the fans know before the tournament. It puts more importance on the tournament, so why not let people know in order to draw more interest?

I think if everybody would have know up front, Canada would have tried harder to beat Mexico. However, since we didn't know, we took it easy on the Mexicans and let them off the hook.

Edited by Binky

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 4:49 AM, king1010 said:

Yes announcing the format sooner rather than later will be beneficial to all. It won’t be top 6 in fifa rankings to the hex and everyone else is out before it began. 

I think you should phone the CONCACAF complaint department @ 604.699.2277 (ask for Mt. Vic)

Edited by Binky

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Binky said:

I think you should phone the CONCACAF complaint department @ 604.699.2277 (ask for Mt. Vic)

We both want what's best for Canadian soccer.

Edited by Binky

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