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Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty


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3 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

A lot of vets had bad seasons, sure. But it doesn’t mean throwing on a yet-to-physically-mature 16 year old kid is warranted.

I think people are taking their historical assumptions about TFC and youth development and blankety thinking this has to apply to 1) what the club has done this year 2) the case of JMR specifically. 

I would counter: 1) they actually have handled JMR fairly well / nobody should feel agree aggrieved outside of maybe giving him too much hype  2) there have been plenty of minutes for youth players this year and those that have performed were given more time, even if that was not the case historically 3) if there is anything you can still critique the club on it’s getting players READY for the first team. Tactically some of these guys look clueless (to be clear, not putting JMR in that category) and giving them minutes when they don’t have the prerequisites, isn’t going to help.

 

He is 17 now. Yeah he is still growing into his body but we haven't seen enough of him in my opinion. I thought he has been fairly good on the ball and has made some good runs which he hasn't been receiving passes when he has been on the field. Again just haven't seen enough of him in an extended run of games. Right now he is being used in a slightly better fashion, getting 10-15 minute runs. Still not enough to really see what he can do though. 

I also get when Perez took over the playoffs were still somewhat within reach. He leaned on the vets because he thought that was his best chance to get results. I can't fault him for that. Now MLS season is done. I don't see much risk in getting more young players some minutes, see if then can step up. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

Yup any of CPL or USL Championship are not bad leagues for these players to go too, it’s still early days for the CPL but USL Championship gave Kaye a few seasons of development and even Pasher who this is when playing and not injured has looked really good for Houston in the MLS so why not loan these players to the CPL or even the USL Championship if you have to, two decent level leagues where these young players can get playing time and develop.

I think it depends on the case and what the team is trying to accomplish. 

I look at players like Nelson and Okello, they can keep up playing with men. They have the physical tools. But tactically, Nelson is clueless and Okello is like some sort of positionless amoeba.  Is the answer sending them out on loan? Or is it keeping them close and finding better youth / 2nd team coaches to drill into them how they integrate to first team football and see forward their careers? No team that takes Nelson on loan is going to force feed him the ball during a game to practice good habits, but TFC2 certainly could if they ran their shop properly.

For JMR, maybe the kid is a sponge and taking everything in during practice and rapidly improving every week. Maybe he’s not ready for more playing time yet but keeping him close makes the most sense because he’s young and you want to surround him with the best people possible. Maybe that’s not how you get the most of him and he’s closer to getting more minutes with the full team than we think. 
 

All is not lost here but again, let’s not make it just about first team minutes as the be-all and end-all as to whether TFC is doing it’s job.

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9 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

He is 17 now. Yeah he is still growing into his body but we haven't seen enough of him in my opinion. I thought he has been fairly good on the ball and has made some good runs which he hasn't been receiving passes when he has been on the field. Again just haven't seen enough of him in an extended run of games. Right now he is being used in a slightly better fashion, getting 10-15 minute runs. Still not enough to really see what he can do though. 

I also get when Perez took over the playoffs were still somewhat within reach. He leaned on the vets because he thought that was his best chance to get results. I can't fault him for that. Now MLS season is done. I don't see much risk in getting more young players some minutes, see if then can step up. 

 

 

 

He’s 17 and even with that recent growth spurt he’s still not physically there. Right now, you are not going to see anything in 90 minutes you didn’t see in 20 and you risk him seriously struggling and maybe blowing his confidence when he can’t keep up.

He looks like a kid they are sending out just to get a taste of what it’s like to play at the full pro level, in the safest way possible. They are doing this despite him being physically undersized and making more than the odd mistake. The club should be getting kudos for this not getting panned because it’s the first time in memory I’ve seen TFC consistently fielded someone so green because they believed in the long term potential. And overall, it’s a rarely something our pro teams are doing. 
 

Maybe he gets a full game or two at the end of the year. Maybe he does great. But right now, he’s a kid they are investing in, not a contributor. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

TFC has had the most success of the 3 CAN MLS teams. Why can't we as TFC fans expect more? Set the standard that the other teams want to mimic. Not settle for being average. They get more criticism because the expectations are higher and I think that is a good thing. They have massive resources, giant scouting area and should be a model franchise in player development from TFC 3 to TFC 2 and to the first team. 

Ok fair enough.  I am ok with holding them to higher standard.  But lets not entirely exonerate the other two canadian clubs.   Cause that is what i have been seeing here over the years.   If i am not mistaken, i read somewhere that Montreal had drastically cut back on their development programs and funding of their development programs a few years ago.  Dont recall exact details.  But never seen a peep here on that topic.  
 

Basically,  with TFC you can say that the intentions are there.  They spent 20 mill on that academy site.   Though you can always question the success.  But with a club like Montreal i am not sure that the intentions are even there.  Think of what they could or could be done with their Bologna affialtions…. Etc. has anything materialized on that front?  Nope nada.  

Edited by Free kick
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2 minutes ago, ag futbol said:

He’s 17 and even with that recent growth spurt he’s still not physically there. Right now, you are not going to see anything in 90 minutes you didn’t see in 20 and you risk him seriously struggling and maybe blowing his confidence when he can’t keep up.

He looks like a kid they are sending out just to get a taste of what it’s like to play at the full pro level, in the safest way possible. They are doing this despite him being physically undersized and making more than the odd mistake. The club should be getting kudos for this not getting panned because it’s the first time in memory I’ve seen TFC consistently fielded someone so green because they believed in the long term potential. And overall, it’s a rarely something our pro teams are doing. 
 

Maybe he gets a full game or two at the end of the year. Maybe he does great. But right now, he’s a kid they are investing in, not a contributor. 

 

 

With JMR I tend to agree. It is with the "older" young players where there seems to be a lack of a direction. They should be out on loan gaining more experience. 

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9 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I am ok with holding them to higher standard.  But lets not entirely exonerate the other two canadian clubs.   Cause that is what i have been seeing here over the years.  

If that's what you've seen over the years, you seriously need to open the other eye, mate.

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1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Ok. If its in front of my eyes then show my what is in front of my eyes and show me how it was done better in Vancouver and Montreal.  

 

I didn’t once make the claim that Vancouver or Montreal has done a better job.  I’m more knowledgeable on TFC so I’ll keep my criticism directed at them.  Plus, Toronto has a huge population and demographic advantage over Montreal and Vancouver.
I’ve said it before, you can still be a fan and be critical.  All the criticism directed at TFC for their failure to develop young talent is warranted.  Especially on this forum, where their failure impacts the CMNT.

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1 hour ago, SoccMan said:

Yup any of CPL or USL Championship are not bad leagues for these players to go too, it’s still early days for the CPL but USL Championship gave Kaye a few seasons of development and even Pasher who this is when playing and not injured has looked really good for Houston in the MLS so why not loan these players to the CPL or even the USL Championship if you have to, two decent level leagues where these young players can get playing time and develop.

Whitecaps have several young Canadians loaned to CPL or USL teams and none of them are even seeing meaningful minutes 

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TFC is held to a higher level than CFM and VW re youth development for these 2 reasons:

1. They apparently spend more on their academy than the other 2; and

2. The GTA/Ontario is the hotbed for soccer talent. Just take a look at our CMNT/starting 11. They should be able to recruit the best youth players in the country.

Regardless of the nationality, in a lost season, I for one would rather see a young highly rated prospect than a bumbling vet. Something to look forward to next season? 

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1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

If that's what you've seen over the years, you seriously need to open the other eye, mate.

Really?  Ok,  i just skimmed through 21 pages of the discussion thread on the whitecaps within the MLS section of this forum.  Lots of stuff on potential incomming transfers from overseas, the MDS firing, roster discussions, some in-games discussions, some references to Donald Trump etc etc.  

nothing talking about the academy, teh performnance of the academy.etc. No criticism of the the academy or that canadians are not getting enough minutes.   Contrast that with the TFC thread and its loaded with:  why is this canadian not getting more minutes,  TFC is anti canadian, why is this american playing and this canadian is not,  TFC needs to play more canadians, TFC is doing a lousy job developing canadian,  the front office is too american, why did they hire this american, and so on and so on.   And it was pretty much the same from year to year. 
 

my eyes are open thank you very much!   
 

PS: i am not criticizing at all the whitecaps thread or the contributions to it.  Quite the contrary. I kind of wish that the TFC thread looked a little more like the whitecaps discussions.

Edited by Free kick
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1 hour ago, Free kick said:

If i am not mistaken, i read somewhere that Montreal had drastically cut back on their development programs and funding of their development programs a few years ago.

Both Montreal and Vancouver got rid of their USL teams. TFC's the only Canadian team left with a reserve side.

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7 minutes ago, RS said:

Both Montreal and Vancouver got rid of their USL teams. TFC's the only Canadian team left with a reserve side.

And therein lies the problem. There is no proper place for promising young "MLS" Canadians to play if they are not ready for the first team. Most of the recent posters in  this thread understand the real need for young guys to play. I am not sure of the possibility of a new MLS reserve league, but certainly there must be room for more loans to USL Championship teams and CPL clubs. Even in the CPL, there are fringe foreigners who contribute little (I leave it to the supporters of the CPL clubs to more accurately discuss who). Certainly the three Canadian MLS clubs could find more loan spots for their young, talented, promising guys.  I would even be in favour of the MLS clubs to provide some nominal financial support to CL clubs for developing and playing loanees.   In short, though, you guys are right. There must be a better plan in place for developing our young players more effectively.

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1 hour ago, Free kick said:

Really?  Ok,  i just skimmed through 21 pages of the discussion thread on the whitecaps within the MLS section of this forum.  Lots of stuff on potential incomming transfers from overseas, the MDS firing, roster discussions, some in-games discussions, some references to Donald Trump etc etc.  

nothing talking about the academy, teh performnance of the academy.etc. No criticism of the the academy or that canadians are not getting enough minutes.   Contrast that with the TFC thread and its loaded with:  why is this canadian not getting more minutes,  TFC is anti canadian, why is this american playing and this canadian is not,  TFC needs to play more canadians, TFC is doing a lousy job developing canadian,  the front office is too american, why did they hire this american, and so on and so on.   And it was pretty much the same from year to year. 
 

my eyes are open thank you very much!   
 

PS: i am not criticizing at all the whitecaps thread or the contributions to it.  Quite the contrary. I kind of wish that the TFC thread looked a little more like the whitecaps discussions.

I am assuming he is referring to the past and not just this season or maybe last. Vancouver used to get ripped to shreds on this site for their lack of playing time for their young players (justifiably in my opinion), just as TFC is IMO justifiably being criticized for their development of their young players now. 

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1 hour ago, maccaliam said:

I am assuming he is referring to the past and not just this season or maybe last. Vancouver used to get ripped to shreds on this site for their lack of playing time for their young players (justifiably in my opinion), just as TFC is IMO justifiably being criticized for their development of their young players now. 

I mean, “Whitecaps hate Canada” is literally a meme on this site.  

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2 hours ago, Free kick said:

Really?  Ok,  i just skimmed through 21 pages of the discussion thread on the whitecaps within the MLS section of this forum.  Lots of stuff on potential incomming transfers from overseas, the MDS firing, roster discussions, some in-games discussions, some references to Donald Trump etc etc.  

nothing talking about the academy, teh performnance of the academy.etc. No criticism of the the academy or that canadians are not getting enough minutes.   Contrast that with the TFC thread and its loaded with:  why is this canadian not getting more minutes,  TFC is anti canadian, why is this american playing and this canadian is not,  TFC needs to play more canadians, TFC is doing a lousy job developing canadian,  the front office is too american, why did they hire this american, and so on and so on.   And it was pretty much the same from year to year. 
 

my eyes are open thank you very much!   
 

PS: i am not criticizing at all the whitecaps thread or the contributions to it.  Quite the contrary. I kind of wish that the TFC thread looked a little more like the whitecaps discussions.

Please refer to @maccaliam's and @dyslexic nam's posts above. The Whitecaps and Impact aren't getting criticised this season, or even last, because they're regularly starting or subbing in Canadian players at numbers which more or less mesh with most of our expectations when MLS came to Canada. However, historically, VWFC has gotten the worst of the criticism in that regard, and by some distance. 

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4 hours ago, canuckgbp said:

With JMR I tend to agree. It is with the "older" young players where there seems to be a lack of a direction. They should be out on loan gaining more experience. 

I agree. I think that partially is down to poor coaching at the TFCA / TFC2 level.  But these players were victim of Vanney’s lineup choices too. He leaned on vets too much and would rather have chewed off his own arm than let a young player on who made a mistake.

I like Perez so far. He seems pragmatic and sensible. I know he started with vets but we have to keep in mind the team was such a tire fire when he took over they needed to restore some sense of dignity. Once things settled in a bit he started giving youth time again and rewarded the players who showed they were capable. I know he hasn’t played a lot of competitive fixtures but I think if he shows well for the remainder of the season he should get the full time job.

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3 hours ago, Free kick said:

Really?  Ok,  i just skimmed through 21 pages of the discussion thread on the whitecaps within the MLS section of this forum.  Lots of stuff on potential incomming transfers from overseas, the MDS firing, roster discussions, some in-games discussions, some references to Donald Trump etc etc.  

nothing talking about the academy, teh performnance of the academy.etc. No criticism of the the academy or that canadians are not getting enough minutes.   Contrast that with the TFC thread and its loaded with:  why is this canadian not getting more minutes,  TFC is anti canadian, why is this american playing and this canadian is not,  TFC needs to play more canadians, TFC is doing a lousy job developing canadian,  the front office is too american, why did they hire this american, and so on and so on.   And it was pretty much the same from year to year. 
 

my eyes are open thank you very much!   
 

PS: i am not criticizing at all the whitecaps thread or the contributions to it.  Quite the contrary. I kind of wish that the TFC thread looked a little more like the whitecaps discussions.

Vancouver has historically been the easy target of Canadian Soccer fans because they used to go entire seasons playing just token Canadian players.

Montreal and Vancouver are now both starting 3-6 Canadians every single game plus some subs. The expectation that most fans here is that there will be a significant Canadian player content out of the Canadian MLS teams.  Any MLS club that isn’t doing that is going to get slammed around here for not developing Canadian players.

For example, I’m in favour of the CSA imposing the same CanCon restrictions for every D1 team playing in Canada with no exceptions. 6 Canadian starters per game.  Figure it out MLS teams.   That would force them to develop (quickly) Canadian players.  For sure practically every CM and DM would be Canadian at least.

 

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16 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I mean, “Whitecaps hate Canada” is literally a meme on this site.  

What?? I've never heard that before...says a TFC fan.  

And dont get all "wooe is me" about TFC.  They are getting the stick on their thread from TFC FANS .  Its not like a crowd of Impact guys are trolling us....we see the talent coming out of Brampton, golden horseshoe area etc TFC back yard...and wonder why our guys cant grab minutes.  Why garbage time subs are given to shitty vets going no where and not up and comers.  Why we trade Hamilton (who did score for us) for a guy (who doesnt score) and is 4 years older???  Why does Fraser ask for a loan to the defending MLS champs to get more minutes than he can here...his hometown??? 

The first comment starting this mess off was all about how we cant sacrifice winning for playing CDN.  The same shit was pedaled when OSO was starting off, same when Lareya was tearing it up at FB,,,"oh no lets use him as a super sub" when it became clear after a few months he was head and shoulders above his FB competition!!! How Endoh has pushed Shaff to the side the last few years boggles my mind.  That Zav has sat in front of any of the young TFC CB is a crying shame.  And if you are a die hard TFC fan (and a local player fan) you see the pattern over and over the last 4-5 years.  

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4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

What?? I've never heard that before...says a TFC fan.  

And dont get all "wooe is me" about TFC.  They are getting the stick on their thread from TFC FANS .  Its not like a crowd of Impact guys are trolling us....we see the talent coming out of Brampton, golden horseshoe area etc TFC back yard...and wonder why our guys cant grab minutes.  Why garbage time subs are given to shitty vets going no where and not up and comers.  Why we trade Hamilton (who did score for us) for a guy (who doesnt score) and is 4 years older???  Why does Fraser ask for a loan to the defending MLS champs to get more minutes than he can here...his hometown??? 

The first comment starting this mess off was all about how we cant sacrifice winning for playing CDN.  The same shit was pedaled when OSO was starting off, same when Lareya was tearing it up at FB,,,"oh no lets use him as a super sub" when it became clear after a few months he was head and shoulders above his FB competition!!! How Endoh has pushed Shaff to the side the last few years boggles my mind.  That Zav has sat in front of any of the young TFC CB is a crying shame.  And if you are a die hard TFC fan (and a local player fan) you see the pattern over and over the last 4-5 years.  

Shaff did decently against Leon in Champions League and then basically fell off the face of the earth.

A lot of the Whitecaps hate stopped after they stopped acquiring mediocre Americans. TFC still employs a lot of mediocre Americans 

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Vancouver has historically been the easy target of Canadian Soccer fans because they used to go entire seasons playing just token Canadian players.

Montreal and Vancouver are now both starting 3-6 Canadians every single game plus some subs. The expectation that most fans here is that there will be a significant Canadian player content out of the Canadian MLS teams.  Any MLS club that isn’t doing that is going to get slammed around here for not developing Canadian players.

For example, I’m in favour of the CSA imposing the same CanCon restrictions for every D1 team playing in Canada with no exceptions. 6 Canadian starters per game.  Figure it out MLS teams.   That would force them to develop (quickly) Canadian players.  For sure practically every CM and DM would be Canadian at least.

 

Back when MLS first expanded to Canada that quota would have been very tough, but I think at this point in time it’s realistic to play and compete with 4-6 CDNS in the lineup.

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1 hour ago, baulderdash77 said:

Vancouver has historically been the easy target of Canadian Soccer fans because they used to go entire seasons playing just token Canadian players.

Montreal and Vancouver are now both starting 3-6 Canadians every single game plus some subs. The expectation that most fans here is that there will be a significant Canadian player content out of the Canadian MLS teams.  Any MLS club that isn’t doing that is going to get slammed around here for not developing Canadian players.

For example, I’m in favour of the CSA imposing the same CanCon restrictions for every D1 team playing in Canada with no exceptions. 6 Canadian starters per game.  Figure it out MLS teams.   That would force them to develop (quickly) Canadian players.  For sure practically every CM and DM would be Canadian at least.

 

6 seems a little much right now. I'd say 4 for the upper limit and I would word it in minutes not starters. The team has to average 360 minutes of Canadian players per game.

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53 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

6 seems a little much right now. I'd say 4 for the upper limit and I would word it in minutes not starters. The team has to average 360 minutes of Canadian players per game.

It would be phased in over 2-3 years.  Start at 4 and build to 6 in 3 years.

The Canadian player pool is just so much deeper than it was even 5 years ago.  Montreal is basically doing this every game now anyways.  
 

Targeting minutes rather than starters is harder because your talking about limiting in game adjustments and how would the ref enforce that.

It would definitely be the end of foreign journeymen players in the 3 MLS teams.  
 

If you look at how the CFL manages non-import players you see that they often become offensive linemen and defensive linemen with some other skill positions added.  I would imagine that under this setup you would see most keepers, CB’s and CDM’s getting filled by Canadian players with some FB, Wingers and CM’s ocasionally being used but the big money players (attacking options) being almost exclusively foreign players.

 

 

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