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Gold Cup QFs - June 29th 2019 - Canada vs Haiti

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After the 8-1 WCQ debacle, who would have thunk that we would now be complaining about our back line (justified, btw) while two Canadians top the tournament in scoring?

Chin up lads and lasses. Call up some natural defenders and give Herdman one more chance.

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24 minutes ago, scullion44 said:

Can someone TL;DW for me KJs comments on TSN? 

Kristian Jack on TSN after the match:

"It's the biggest capitulation in Canadian Mens Soccer history, without question. This program has had a long, long history of heartbreak and now we have another significant chapter that will be talked about for many years to come.  Up 2-0 and cruising, quite frankly, and they capitualted very, very poorly, giving away goals that were very preventable.  We've seen this from Milan Borjan already this year in Vancouver, in the CONCACAF Nations League qualifier, where you just want to put your foot through it.

You can't allow them (Haiti) to get back in it.  We said at half-time that we just needed to be professional and see the game through.  But once you gave them a sniff they were definitely back in the match.  You know, again, the weaknesses came to the four fullback areas.  Godinho had one eye for the ball, no thought about looking at the Haitian player what so ever, and as I said, it just got worse and worse from there.  Once the penalty went in I felt that there was a real frustration that took over the game.  We were almost shocked at 2-2, and then you could see the tide trending in the wrong direction.

Honduras 8-1, not that long ago in 2012.  The 2007 game against the United States (also had a Hutchinson goal called back for a narrow offside).  A long history of heartbreak.  This is right up there.  It's an absolute disaster for the program right now.

Kelsey B.: "...what is the long term affect of a loss like this...?  This is the first BIG setback that John Herdman's side has had..."

K. Jack: "And their first real test.  And they failed it.  And that's significant, because we've been waiting for them to be tested.  And it looked through forty-five minutes that this group of players were ready.  And you've got Alphonso Davies, Jonathon David;  there are so many things to like about this program.  And what we didn't want as a nation was to start having those self-inflicted wounds come up again.  Far too many of those wounds of the past have been there.  And now you look at this team, they're gonna have to deal with defeat.  As top level sportsman they will be aware of that.  But this has come FAR TOO EARLY.  Nobody on that field expected that today in their first real test and now the big discussion goes to one player.  Atiba Hutchinson, THE greatest player that we have ever produced in the Men's Program and he may have just walked off the field in a Canada shirt for the last time, and that is a real pity."

 

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48 minutes ago, YEG Round Baller said:

After the 8-1 WCQ debacle, who would have thunk that we would now be complaining about our back line (justified, btw) while two Canadians top the tournament in scoring?

Chin up lads and lasses. Call up some natural defenders and give Herdman one more chance.

I am not yelling at you, just quote for asking:

 Why didn't he call up more natural defender for this tournament? 

A qualified coach would never ever send Davies and Huchinson to back line. This is suicide. 

Why Herdman insist to use Godynho so stubborn even the deficiency was so obvious in last few games? He didn't even sub Godynho  after the penalty. 

One week ago, Coach HM for women's confused me. Now Coach Herdman did it again. 

I am not a professional, but I want some answers.

Edited by lamptern

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Here’s the story that stands out for me: Milan Borjan is supposed to be a leader and completely destroyed his young defenders confidence.  Why?  I don’t know but it’s the second time this year he’s put us in a bad spot with a mistake.. luckily vs FG we recovered, today we couldn’t.

He had time to clear that back pass and for whatever reason tried to be fancy with it. To show up the Haitian and his young defender? I can’t think of a reason that ball wasn’t cleared and it’s the second time I’m saying that in 5 matches now.  Then he yells at the defender..

Piss poor leadership from our second most experienced player on the pitch.  We are a young team and a “leader” didn’t lead tonight and it mentally lead to us falling apart IMO. 

** notwithstanding the fact that Godinho shouldn’t have been a starter in this tournament anyway as I questioned pre-game.

Edited by CanadaFan123

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8 hours ago, Macksam said:

I think Liam Millar would have been a great guy to bring on towards the end. He would have easily ran at those tired Haitian legs.

If I had my choices;

Piette for Hutch at half. 

Liam Millar for Hoilett at 70. Davies moves up front here and run 3 at the back. 

I'd probably have done ZBG for Godinho after Borjan yelled at him for the first goal. It's hard to focus again after that. I don't blame Godinho for that (the second yes) but still would have made the change. 

Osorio and Cavallini would have been nowhere close to being off. 

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3 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Here’s the story that stands out for me: Milan Borjan is supposed to be a leader and completely destroyed his young defenders confidence.  Why?  I don’t know but it’s the second time this year he’s put us in a bad spot with a mistake.. luckily vs FG we recovered, today we couldn’t.

He had time to clear that back pass and for whatever reason tried to be fancy with it. To show up the Haitian and his young defender? I can’t think of a reason that ball wasn’t cleared and it’s the second time I’m saying that in 5 matches now.  Then he yells at the defender..

Piss poor leadership from our second most experienced player on the pitch.  We are a young team and a “leader” didn’t lead tonight and it mentally lead to us falling apart IMO. 

** notwithstanding the fact that Godinho shouldn’t have been a starter in this tournament anyway as I questioned pre-game.

I thought Godinho played very well until the penalty. 

Borjan is an *******. I could understand if that was the 3-2 goal and frustrations were boiling but it wasn't. We were still in the driver seat and he acts like a disrespectful fool. I was pissed. Hopefully Busti turns out to be good so we can get a youthful keeper to grow with this group.

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7 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

This. 

Glad we get an opportunity to play the US twice, but not thrilled we get Cuba again... tonight shows that this young team needs as much experience as they can get against decent Concacaf competition.

I guess better for something like this to happen now than during WCQ....But so gutted and disappointed right now.

If we had too good of competition we'd probably choke and end up in League B

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5 hours ago, Cheeta said:

I would just like to point out that in the time I've been watching Canada I've put on 40 pounds and lost most of my hair.

There, see!  Something else to look forward besides Nations League. 

Me too, although I've probably gained more in the range of 70 to 100 pounds. But that's measuring from since I was about 12 years old so that part isn't as bad as it sounds :)

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53 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

I thought Godinho played very well until the penalty. 

Borjan is an *******. I could understand if that was the 3-2 goal and frustrations were boiling but it wasn't. We were still in the driver seat and he acts like a disrespectful fool. I was pissed. Hopefully Busti turns out to be good so we can get a youthful keeper to grow with this group.

Yes, I was watching him closely as like others on here I was concerned with him starting, you are right, Borjan was a dick for getting all over the young defender for a calamity he was just as much or more responsible for, that can't help the player's confidence and who knows how much it affected the rest of his game! I see lots of hate for Godinho, it's too bad because he did show lots of promise at Hearts but has lost his way, this tournament won't have helped although potentially it could have if he did well! I am still really pissed about us throwing this match away, I think I feel worse today than the aftermath of the 8-1 and that was a much more important match!

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7 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I can’t be the only one who is completely desensitised to losses like this? 

I can't say it was a big surprise. There's a lot of potential there but if anyone can screw it up, the CSA are past masters with consistent results.

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16 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I can’t be the only one who is completely desensitised to losses like this? 

I'm sort of there too. 

People are bringing up the 8-1 game. 

But I feel more like 2-1 Honduras in Montreal in 2008. I can't believe that was 11 years ago now. 

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3 minutes ago, narduch said:

 

But I feel more like 2-1 Honduras in Montreal in 2008. I can't believe that was 11 years ago now. 

This is the best comparison to the way feel and also just to the magnitude of the loss.

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On the bright side we had nothing major to look forward to after the 8-1 game for years. 

Now we have both nations league and wcq within the year. 

Im also a bit concerned about Cav though. As he was walking off after his sub he looked to be “shushing” someone on bench. We need him for the next 4 years. 

Edited by king1010

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14 minutes ago, king1010 said:

 

Im also a bit concerned about Cav. As he was walking off after his sub he looked to be “shushing” someone on bench. We need him for the next 4 years. 

This concerns me too. Hopefully he was just fired up and in the moment, but there won’t be any issues going forward. 

 

42 minutes ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I can’t be the only one who is completely desensitised to losses like this? 

I sadly was not desensitized to the capitulation last night. It hurt. 

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Cavallini was last seen in the group huddle post-game with the entire team, FWIW.

But I would have been pissed coming off as well if I was leading all other non-Canadians in goal scoring in the tourney and we needed a goal. That's why you get reactions like this as well:

 

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27 minutes ago, king1010 said:

On the bright side we had nothing major to look forward to after the 8-1 game for years. 

Now we have both nations league and wcq within the year. 

Im also a bit concerned about Cav though. As he was walking off after his sub he looked to be “shushing” someone on bench. We need him for the next 4 years. 

It would be very interesting to hear what was said in the dressing room after this debacle, with Cat being subbed off for a LB and Borjan blaming everyone but himself for a poor match, hopefully the leadership of Hutchinson and Arfield kept things together as I'm sure there was lots of anger all round!

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13 hours ago, jonovision said:

Why was Godinho forced to cover 2 guys? 

That is what I said while watching with fellow Vs in Vancouver. He blew it, for sure, but he was alone there and had no help. So you don't throw the guy to the lions and then not look at why a team needing to defend could not get players behind the ball. 

As for the first back pass, Borjan seemed more concerned about tearing Godinho's ear off than stopping the ball, which is what his 100% priority had to be. It would just have been an illegal back pass and a free kick in the box. Still, also said this while watching: if Hutch had made that pass back, Borjan would have shut up. It is the veterans' responsability to make the team tick and be positive for the youth. 

That first goal for Haiti got them back in, but Herdman never had us playing possession in confidence with proper shape on the field. How can a team leading be hit on the counter? It just shows, he is a tactical amateur, with no capacity to interpret the difference between being up two goals or being down. We played identically for almost 90 minutes. 

 

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We need to play more games.

RB and LB need to be straightened out, taking a look at everyone, Cordova included, which can be accomplished by playing more games.

Davies, Cav, and David need to be our front line.  I feel like Hoilett has lost a step although he is still a great option for certain games.

It's possible to be angry and critical about this match and still hold on to the positives from this tournament, including some midfield and attacking play that showed a different Canada than I have ever seen.

It's also good to see anger and outrage, as we should expect to win these games with this group.

It's also possible to criticise Herdman and feel he made serious errors without thinking the time is right to fire him yet.  Ultimately it will depend on whether he has lost the confidence of key players.

Hats off to Haiti.  Sometimes a team just seems to be on a magical run, as we were when we won our only Gold Cup.

Looking forward to seeing Eustaqiuo with this group.

Luckily we do not have long to wait before Nation's League, and there is plenty of CanPL in between.

Jonathan David is going to obliterate all Canadian scoring records.

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1 hour ago, Greatest Cockney Rip Off said:

I can’t be the only one who is completely desensitised to losses like this? 

Each one is new though.  Have we ever been up 2-0 at halftime in an elimination game and been eliminated?  Never mind by 2 of our own mistakes..I could at least live with a couple wonder goals against us.

Have we ever blown a 2 goal lead and lost?  

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