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The Importance of VAR

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4 hours ago, Patrick said:

Let the game flow.

On this particular point, does it strike anyone else as bizarre that we heard about video review for whether the ball crossed the line or not for YEARS but there was always push back because they didn't want to slow down the game. The proper technology had to be developed so that the ref could be notified within a second that a goal had been scored.

Now all of a sudden they are fine with playing on for who knows how long after an incident occurs, which will eventually render the rest of the play meaningless, then have the ref stop the play for 2 or 3 minutes (as pointed out by YEG Round Baller before, that's not very clear and obvious if it takes that long to figure it out), then another few seconds to jog over to the screen, then another little while to view the play. Several minutes can go by in the process for a single call, and it happens much more often than a controversial call about whether the ball crossed the line or not. They have completely forgotten about the prerequisites that goal line technology had to clear before being introduced.

I don't have any faith that clearer minds will prevail and ask themselves if VAR can make the game more enjoyable, instead of getting caught up with the unicorn-like idea of a perfectly called game. This is real life sports with infinite possibilities, not a video game with a finite number of lines of code, and a finite pixel count.

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So far at the Copa America the VAR has overruled the referee 19 times voiding goals that both the AR and the Ref. gave as legit.  It's gotten to the point that nobody cheers or celebrate goals because they get called back.  Whose dumb idea was the VAR in the first place?

 

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10 hours ago, The Ref said:

So far at the Copa America the VAR has overruled the referee 19 times voiding goals that both the AR and the Ref. gave as legit.  It's gotten to the point that nobody cheers or celebrate goals because they get called back.  Whose dumb idea was the VAR in the first place?

 

Yeah, that's another problem I have with VAR. You end up half heartedly cheering a referee's signal instead of cheering the goal itself with your full enthusiasm. It used to be that if you thought the play might have been offside you have a quick glance at the referee's assistant and if the flag wasn't up, GO NUTS! Now you wait until the ball has been kicked off at half to know the goal can't be taken away from you.

I have a question for the The Ref. You seem to have some numbers at least for goals called back at Copa America. Do you know how many goals were "created" via VAR? Meaning, how many times were penalties awarded that resulted in goals? Or penalty retakes that resulted in goals. Or maybe even potentially red cards given via VAR where the benefiting team scored afterwards? Most changes to the game have historically been to try to increase scoring. But VAR might reduce scoring. It must at the very least be increasing the percentage of goals scored from the penalty spot. Stricter on offside means less open play goals, and stricter calls in the box means more penalties.

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From my last count the VAR as overruled the ref 22 times.  It may be more.  In the Chile Colombia the VAR disallowed 2 goals from Chile who eventually won on PKs.  In the Peru Uruguay the VAR disallowed 3 goals from Uruguay who eventually lost to Peru in PKs.  In my view the VAR is changing the outcome of the games based on technicalities of centimeters and forcing the ref in the field to acquiesce to the VAR.  I don't believe that teams try to score goals from some offside positions on purpose.  So is one to conclude that until now there were soooo many offsides that winning teams never deserved to win or lose.  Occasionally there may have been some teams' complaints but never have such number of complaints equal the number of VAR weird decisions.  To me something just doesn't make sense.

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The impact of the VAR has been so severe in terms of goals disallowed and PKs given for trifle touching and balls hitting hands or arms that one can conclude that Federations who can't afford VAR will crown champions and losers who could be suspect of missed referees' calls.  In other words some of the qualified teams 32 in MWC and 24 in WWC could be suspect of having make it by good old fashion referee calls that now such referees are virtually regarded as redundant by the VAR.  So all the soccer that is played by all ages around the world who do not have VAR their results cannot be trusted.  Am I crazy or what?

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Apologies to any Vancouver fans that disagree, but I feel like this was one of the most extreme examples of VAR gone wrong.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/06/30/golazo-chip-seattle-sounders-teen-danny-leyva-erased-after-video-review

It took nearly 4 minutes to decide there was a clear and obvious foul when the keeper slid underneath the shooter's foot and the shooter's foot came down (as one does after shooting) and happened to go onto the keeper's foot. Are we really better off without this 16 year old scoring a brilliant goal on his debut? Of course this is as anecdotal as it gets, but stuff like this is way more frustrating for me (and I am a TFC fan that hates Seattle) than if a ref gets a call wrong the old fashioned way, where you don't know how good their view was, and they have to make a split second decision.

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Posted (edited)

Oh VAR. When you look at the White equalizer in the England USA game, it is painful that that was disallowed. Granted she was a mm or two offside, so it was technically correct, but that hurt to see. Those margins are far too small. The naked eye is a far better barometer in most cases. 

Now, watching Haiti v Mexico, I wanted VAR to overturn the penalty because I thought it was weak and wrong.  But in the end I think I’m ok with the penalty being given. 

I spoke with a former WNT member, and she raves about VAR. She referenced Canada v England in 1995 WC, that had it existed Canada wins that game.  So maybe players like it, and to hell with us. 

In the end though, why not just referee the game from a screen?  Honestly, if all we care about is getting it right, then get rid of the refs altogether. But there’s more to it than that, and so we’re trying to blend refs with VAR and it isn’t working well. 

Edited by RJB

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I think once VAR is used in all the major national team competitions and in the top 20 leagues, they should change the offsides to full torso or both feet over in order to reduce VAR involvement and avoid very close calls like the England disallowed goal.

Speed of VAR implementation should improve as time passes.

The other issues with VAR are basically due to weak refs. VAR was largely good in the men's WC where the best refs were available. We know there is questionable refereeing in certain regions and leagues and over use of gamesmanship by certain players.

And VAR is showing these flaws in the women's WC where I always thought many of the ARs make too many errors calling offsides and the depth of experienced female head refs is shallow. Likewise with MLS, VAR is showing how the level of refs is very inconsistent, some are quite poor and ref body directives are a bit muddled.

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Michael Boys, FIFA coordinator, admits that in the Copa America which is a Conmebol tournament they used half the number of cameras than in full FIFA tournaments like a WC.  Cheap bastards!

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On 7/3/2019 at 10:57 AM, RJB said:

In the end though, why not just referee the game from a screen?  Honestly, if all we care about is getting it right, then get rid of the refs altogether. But there’s more to it than that, and so we’re trying to blend refs with VAR and it isn’t working well. 

This is the logical conclusion with the obsession with accuracy and justice. Eventually maybe it will be like an exam. Two teams go on the field, they play soccer, then video of that game is sent to a team of refs/judges. A week later we find out what the score was.

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Posted (edited)

I am very ambivalent about VAR and offsides because I do want the decisions to be correct. I think perhaps they should use VAR to call offsides but (as was pointed out earlier) with the same limitations placed on goalline technology: a decision within one second. It should be possible for software to do this although the subjective part of the rule does complicate things. But refs trotting over to look at TV screens is a massive fail.

Edited by Lofty

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