Gold Cup - June 19th 2019 - Canada vs Mexico

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

But I remember Arfield be absolutely gassed against Jamaica during the last Gold Cup, and I think it would be wise to rest him for one of Mexico or Cuba, along with Hutch and Hoillet.  

Also, I am not convinced the Cubans are worse than Martinique. Meaning that I think the Mexicans might be even better than the first result of the tournament showed. I want us to play a smart game, but I also want us to be realistic (and smart) about squad rotation. We will likely clog the middle, play a lone holding striker up top, and then hope we can have composure when we win the ball and string some passes together, maybe strike on the counter.  Mexico will give us less space than Martinique, so we need to clean up the terrible give-aways.  We could scrape out a result, but it is going to be a massive task.

I would rest Arfield against Cuba. 

Cuba is definitely a wildcard. For all we know half their team may have deflected by the time we play them. That probably won't happen, but you just never know. Assuming not though, I still think Martinique is a class better, but Cuba aren't going to lie down for us to walk over them either. They'll play for pride and will have nothing to lose.

[Yoginess]

I don’t get all this confidence of us going through. Yes we should beat Cuba but a close loss to Mexico and a loss to Cuba and that’s a wrap for the Gold Cup

[dyslexic nam]

48 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

I don’t get all this confidence of us going through. Yes we should beat Cuba but a close loss to Mexico and a loss to Cuba and that’s a wrap for the Gold Cup

Our current squad is not going to lose to Cuba.  A few years ago, maybe.  I am going to start projecting a level of swagger I think this squad warrants.  Mexico will be hard as hell - but we will beat Cuba. 

[Shortdutchcanuck]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

I don’t get all this confidence of us going through. Yes we should beat Cuba but a close loss to Mexico and a loss to Cuba and that’s a wrap for the Gold Cup

It is a new thing.  It is called 'having a pretty damn talented team'.  It does take some getting used to 😉. 

Years of disappoinment have made me pretty fragile. But I think at this point we should be confident in this group and expect the best and not the worst.

 

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

I don’t get all this confidence of us going through. Yes we should beat Cuba but a close loss to Mexico and a loss to Cuba and that’s a wrap for the Gold Cup

I would be flabbergasted if we lost to Cuba, frankly.  Defence is the achilles heel but I think the offensive talent here should win out.

[xabuep2]

Yasmani Lopez defected from the Cuban team  after the game against Mexico, in Los Angeles, California.https://www.espn.com.mx/futbol/copa-oro/nota/_/id/5745635/confirman-otra-baja-en-la-selección-de-cuba

[Lansdude]

The US should be fifth or sixth ranked favourites based on this lackluster performance.

[The Beaver 2.0]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

I would rest Arfield against Cuba. 

Cuba is definitely a wildcard. For all we know half their team may have deflected by the time we play them. That probably won't happen, but you just never know. Assuming not though, I still think Martinique is a class better, but Cuba aren't going to lie down for us to walk over them either. They'll play for pride and will have nothing to lose.

Forgot to mention the fact that by game three the Cubans will have lost a handful of players to defection, which means they'll certainly be weaker (and dispirited, especially if they do not get the win versus Martinique). I would very much like Arfield's leadership on the pitch versus Mexico. [And I see now that the Cubans have already lost one to player to defection!]

[costarg]

I'm not suggesting this for Mexico, since we obviously need to rest Hutch, Arfield and Hoilett, as well as save Henry for when it really counts.  However if we want to field our strongest lineup later in the tournament (not just best 11 men), we need to change things from the Martinique game where we fielded our best 11 players.  It's obvious we need to shore up the defence to have a shot at going deep in this tournament.  We're not strong enough at the back to play with the better CONCACAF teams.

I don't see any option but to put in real CB's.  Hutch's soccer IQ and passing is incredible, but he just doesn't have the legs to slow down or stop the stronger teams.

I feel our best team at the moment is probably:

---------Cavalini - David

Davies - Kaye - Hutch - Arfield - ZBG

----Cornelius - Henry - Miller

- Davies and ZBG both have the legs and lungs to bomb up and down the flanks for 90min, as well as being responsible defensively.  

- 3 real CB's make us a little more solid at the back.

- Kaye - Hutch - Arfield is by far our best midfield.  Strong and responsible defensively, as well as dangerous going forward.

- No real playmaker in the lineup, however we should be able to generate a ton of offence when needed with Davies, Kaye, Hutch and Arfield in the middle, and with ZBG's strong crossing game.

- Cavalini and David together are strong enough to terrorize any one of CONCACAF's best.  They're both finishers and workhorses who can take turns dropping back if needed.

- From the bench: Millar on fresh legs, and Hoilett's talent could really shake things up if and when needed.

[The Beaver 2.0]

20 minutes ago, costarg said:

I'm not suggesting this for Mexico, since we obviously need to rest Hutch, Arfield and Hoilett, as well as save Henry for when it really counts.  However if we want to field our strongest lineup later in the tournament (not just best 11 men), we need to change things from the Martinique game where we fielded our best 11 players.  It's obvious we need to shore up the defence to have a shot at going deep in this tournament.  We're not strong enough at the back to play with the better CONCACAF teams.

I don't see any option but to put in real CB's.  Hutch's soccer IQ and passing is incredible, but he just doesn't have the legs to slow down or stop the stronger teams.

I feel our best team at the moment is probably:

---------Cavalini - David

Davies - Kaye - Hutch - Arfield - ZBG

----Cornelius - Henry - Miller

- Davies and ZBG both have the legs and lungs to bomb up and down the flanks for 90min, as well as being responsible defensively.  

- 3 real CB's make us a little more solid at the back.

- Kaye - Hutch - Arfield is by far our best midfield.  Strong and responsible defensively, as well as dangerous going forward.

- No real playmaker in the lineup, however we should be able to generate a ton of offence when needed with Davies, Kaye, Hutch and Arfield in the middle, and with ZBG's strong crossing game.

- Cavalini and David together are strong enough to terrorize any one of CONCACAF's best.  They're both finishers and workhorses who can take turns dropping back if needed.

- From the bench: Millar on fresh legs, and Hoilett's talent could really shake things up if and when needed.

I like this, and I wonder if we might see this at some point. I cannot imagine we'll play more than one striker up front against the Mexicans, and I suspect we'll play six on the backline (kidding, sort of).  Not to get too MDS on your asses, but in the spirit of trusting the process, we are going to learn a lot about Herdman and the lads tomorrow evening. This can only be a good thing as we develop this young squad.

[BuzzAndSting]

Our lineup that last time we played Mexico, 0-2 loss at Azteca in 2018 WCQ - March 29, 2016.

I don't remember but I guess Henry played RB? Ledgerwood and De Guz played DM? And De Jong played LW?

18 Milan BORJAN

2 Nikolas LEDGERWOOD

3 Manjrekar JAMES

4 Dejan JAKOVIC

6 Julian DE GUZMAN

8 Will JOHNSON

10 Junior HOILETT

12 Doneil HENRY

13 Atiba HUTCHINSON

17 Marcel DE JONG

21 Cyle LARIN

Substitutes

1 Simon THOMAS

5 David EDGAR

7 Iain HUME

9 Marcus HABER

11 Tosaint RICKETTS

14 Samuel PIETTE

15 Adam STRAITH

19 STEVEN VITORIA

20 Karl OUIMETTE

22 Kenny STAMATOPOULOS

23 Tesho AKINDELE

[Alex]

Yes for sure Henry played right back. I remember this because I was beside myself lol.

[Alex]

Herdman said in a video put out last night by the csa that there would be squad rotation for this one. Here are the outfield guys that didn’t play vs Martinique:

miller, zbg, henry, Morgan, okello, Johnson, Larin.

Millar, Cavallini and teibert were the subs. I can see Cavallini starting over David, Henry playing cb over Hutchinson,  Johnson playing over osorio and zbg over Godinho. 

[CanadaFan123]

9 minutes ago, Alex said:

Yes for sure Henry played right back. I remember this because I was beside myself lol.

Ahh yes and he gave up a PK too.

[costarg]

8 minutes ago, Alex said:

Herdman said in a video put out last night by the csa that there would be squad rotation for this one. Here are the outfield guys that didn’t play vs Martinique:

miller, zbg, henry, Morgan, okello, Johnson, Larin.

Millar, Cavallini and teibert were the subs. I can see Cavallini starting over David, Henry playing cb over Hutchinson,  Johnson playing over osorio and zbg over Godinho. 

Not sure i'd make Henry play vs Mexico coming  back from an injury, when we'll surely need him on Sunday vs Cuba.

[gator]

I can see Morgan playing Left Back in this one, he put in some really good performances against Mexican opposition in the CCL for TFC last season including a solid match at the Azteca!

[Obinna]

Yup I can see Morgan getting a run out in this one. Agreed that Mexico is a tough one to make your return from injury. Plus you don't want wholesale changes on the backline, so two players coming in is more than enough. Morgan for Kaye, ZBG for Godinho.

If Herdman wants to keep his cards close to his chest, does he withhold David all together? Would seem crazy after his brace, but we'll see. I expect a front 3 of Davies-Cav-David.

Midfield I think will be Arfield-Osorio-Piette, with Johnson coming on if the game calls for it, or possibly Teibert.

Wonder if Crepeau will shock us all by making the start?

[costarg]

13 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yup I can see Morgan getting a run out in this one. Agreed that Mexico is a tough one to make your return from injury. Plus you don't want wholesale changes on the backline, so two players coming in is more than enough. Morgan for Kaye, ZBG for Godinho.

If Herdman wants to keep his cards close to his chest, does he withhold David all together? Would seem crazy after his brace, but we'll see. I expect a front 3 of Davies-Cav-David.

Midfield I think will be Arfield-Osorio-Piette, with Johnson coming on if the game calls for it, or possibly Teibert.

Wonder if Crepeau will shock us all by making the start?

We also gotta rest Hutch, he ain't no spring chicken.  3 games in 8 days is a little much to ask of a 36 year old at this level.

[Obinna]

Clearly I can't make up my mind....

Was just pondering Herdman's rotation comments. Perhaps it is something like:

------------------Crepeau---------------

ZBG------Henry----Cornelius----Morgan

-----------------Hutchinson-----------------

-------------Arfield------Osorio-------------

Hoilett----------Cavallini----------Millar

5 changes is definitely squad rotation. It's an experienced group that won't be overwhelmed. Keeps the Aces of Davies and David up your sleeve by keeping them on the bench. Kaye and Borjan, both crucial, get a break. I kind of like it. Ditto for Piette, plus he is on a yellow already.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Obinna

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

We also gotta rest Hutch, he ain't no spring chicken.  3 games in 8 days is a little much to ask of a 36 year old at this level.

If we see him tonight he'll definitely be rested against Cuba. Perhaps Piette for Hutchinson at the base of midfield, though I am nervous about him picking up a second yellow. Wouldn't he miss the Cuba match then? What happens to the right CB spot if Henry re-agrivates the hammy and Hutchinson is needed in midfield? I don't really trust Johnson or Kaye in Piette's spot. I think Kaye is a replacement for Arfield and Teibert for Osorio, with Johnson as the proverbial swiss army knife.

[CanadaFan123]

Borjan is a keeper, he doesn’t need a break and I doubt he gets one.  But I like the rest of your changes @Obinna. 

I think Davies off the bench at altitude could be deadly to their fullbacks.

[Obinna]

Just now, CanadaFan123 said:

Borjan is a keeper, he doesn’t need a break and I doubt he gets one.  But I like the rest of your changes @Obinna. 

I think Davies off the bench at altitude could be deadly to their fullbacks.

I thought I heard on the broadcast he was dealing with a slight heel issue, but that's not why I brought up Crepeau. I did so because there is talk that although Borjan is first choice, the transition to Crepeau will be happening. What the looks like is anyones guess, but Herdman seems like the type of man to throw Crepeau into the Mexican fire just to see how he handles it. Not saying I would do that, but I think it's a possibility.

[CanadaFan123]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I thought I heard on the broadcast he was dealing with a slight heel issue, but that's not why I brought up Crepeau. I did so because there is talk that although Borjan is first choice, the transition to Crepeau will be happening. What the looks like is anyones guess, but Herdman seems like the type of man to throw Crepeau into the Mexican fire just to see how he handles it. Not saying I would do that, but I think it's a possibility.

The transition to Crepeau as number one is still some time away, likely after 2022.  This is our biggest test and the team is most comfortable with Borjan behind them.  In 2017 you could see a noticeable difference when Borjan went off injured vs FG in the team’s play once Crepeau came in IMO.

Hopefully we can play some friendlies and get Crepeau in soon but we’ve waited too long for this chance to not put Borjan in goal.. also as veteran and #1 I think he wants this one.

[king1010]

Borjan is still 31, for a keeper thats a prime age. he has 3,4 years at his top level still. He’ll be our number 1 through the 2022 cycle barring something extraordinary happening. 

[Obinna]

5 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The transition to Crepeau as number one is still some time away, likely after 2022.  This is our biggest test and the team is most comfortable with Borjan behind them.  In 2017 you could see a noticeable difference when Borjan went off injured vs FG in the team’s play once Crepeau came in IMO.

Hopefully we can play some friendlies and get Crepeau in soon but we’ve waited too long for this chance to not put Borjan in goal.. also as veteran and #1 I think he wants this one.

The way it was brought up suggested this process of transition would begin at Gold Cup. I wish I could remember where I heard it and who said it. It may have been Dunfield on COYR.

Actually, it was because Terry was saying how Borjan is his mate and hopes he doesn't listen, because he's a big angry Serbian dude!

That was pretty funny, but remember Dunfield was right about Hutchinson at CB, so he may also be right about Crepeau getting a game this Gold Cup. 

@king1010 I should stress this doesn't mean Crepeau will be the No. 1 for the 2022 cycle. The transition would involve getting him starts here and there so the eventual transition away from Borjan can be done with confidence. Milan is a fantastic keeper and is rightfully the No. 1.