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apbsmith

Gold Cup - June 19th 2019 - Canada vs Mexico

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46 minutes ago, Kent said:

But of course we could bring Henry on (if fit) for a midfielder and push Hutch up the field.

Yup that's definitely a possibility. I could see that happening. 

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2 hours ago, apbsmith said:

1) We have no idea what mexico might do this game, they might have massive squad rotation as they are already without a handful of their top players this tourney, so Martinez might want to get a look at them.

 

Based on the lineup Mexico put out there, I believe they will have some rotation as well.

Hetcor Moreno arguably their most experience and best defender sat out the game vs Cuba.  Erick Gutierrez who plays alongside Lozano at PSV was rested and one might think he also gets a start.  Jonathan Dos Santos has been a regular starter for Mexico in the midfield over the past few years and he did not play as well.

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1 hour ago, Corazon said:

Based on the lineup Mexico put out there, I believe they will have some rotation as well.

Hetcor Moreno arguably their most experience and best defender sat out the game vs Cuba.  Erick Gutierrez who plays alongside Lozano at PSV was rested and one might think he also gets a start.  Jonathan Dos Santos has been a regular starter for Mexico in the midfield over the past few years and he did not play as well.

He took Jiminez out in the 72min also, who is on a mission to personally crush this Gold Cup. Will be interesting what Mexico does with Antuna and Jiminez this game. 

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Viewing Parties

Vancouver - Library Square

Toronto - Duke of Gloucester

Montreal - Frappe

Edmonton - Urban Tavern

Regina - The Lobby

 

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Just now, admin said:

Viewing Parties

Vancouver - Library Square

Toronto - Duke of Gloucester

Montreal - Frappe

Edmonton - Urban Tavern

 

I’m certain The Lobby in Regina will have the game on, but most of us have commitments that night so we are not organizing anything. 

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I have a feeling that Herdman will start with a 4-3-3 and try to possess the ball as much as possible to grind out 60 mins or so before changing to something like a 3-5-1-1. I can see something like this:

 

------------------Borjan--------------------

Godinho-----Cornelius-----Miller-----Davies

---------Osorio-----------------Kaye--------

-------------------Arfield--------------------

ZBG-----------------------------------Hoilett

-------------------Cavalini-------------------

 

Switch to:

-------------------Borjan--------------------

----Godinho-------Cornelius------Miller-----

---------Osorio-----------------Kaye--------

ZBG------------Hutchinson------------Millar

--------------------Arfield-------------------

---------------------David-------------------

 

Sub: ^Hutchinson for Hoilett - 65 min

Sub: ^David for Cavalini - 70 min

Sub: ^Millar for Davies 75 min

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On 6/17/2019 at 12:27 AM, Yoginess said:

This is the litmus rest we’ve been waiting years for. 

It's certainly Herdman's first test.  He's had a pretty smooth road since he was hired, playing a series of minnows up to this point.  Granted we've done well, but this is our first challenge that he's faced.

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Posted (edited)

As far as Im concerned, these next 2 games are simply prep games for the only real test in this tournament, the quarter final against costa rica.  realistically, we were always going to get out of this relatively easy group.  anything we do in a possible semi final and beyond is just gravy. 

The quarter final though, is the first real high pressure test for this group. 

I would treat tomorrow's game against mexico as an opportunity for our young players to get used to the speed and quality of the game at that level. 

----------------------Cavallini

Davies-------------Osorio------------David

----------------Kaye----------Piette

Morgan--Cornelius--Miller--Godinho

--------------------------Borjan

I would conserve Henry as much as possible to make sure he is 100% for the quarter final.

We also have to reconsider whether we are stronger as a team with Davies at left back.  I don't think Kaye or Morgan are strong enough in that position. They will be exploited.  Davies is probably our best left back at the moment, certainly on this roster, and David, Hoilett and Millar can get the job done on the wings.

Conversely, we also need to face the reality that perhaps Hutchinson is no longer physically able to give us 60-75+ minutes in the midfield against Concacaf's best.  Hutchinson is my hero, but Piette and Kaye are faster and stronger and can run for days.  Atiba's best role now may be as a substitute to relieve pressure and lock down a lead.  We need to start adjusting for a future without Atiba. 

Hoilett is in a similar situation.  I think he is less useful on the right compared to the left, and the left is Davies flank now.  I think everyone knows that our attacking trio of the future is Davies---Cavallini---David. 

My anticipated lineup for the Quarter Final:

Hoilett-----------Cavallini-------------David

-------------Osorio------------Arfield

-------------------------Piette

Davies---Cornelius---Henry---Godinho

---------------------Borjan

Edited by BrennanFan

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I’m surprised people have Godinho over ZBG on RB for the important games. Godinho was not as good as ZBG from what I seen last game. Could be rust, but I think ZBG has shown better for Canada so far. 

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3 minutes ago, Reign said:

I’m surprised people have Godinho over ZBG on RB for the important games. Godinho was not as good as ZBG from what I seen last game. Could be rust, but I think ZBG has shown better for Canada so far. 

I completely agree, at club level ZBG as also been pretty good and consistent with the Impact. I really think that Herdman sees him as the starting right back right now and he is gonna be there for the rest of the tournament.

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4 minutes ago, Reign said:

I’m surprised people have Godinho over ZBG on RB for the important games. Godinho was not as good as ZBG from what I seen last game. Could be rust, but I think ZBG has shown better for Canada so far. 

Godinho really impressed me the few times I saw him play for Hearts this year, so I favour him, but theyre both at (approximately) the same level and I hope they both get time in this gold cup.  Cordova is a more polished RB than both of them in my opinion.

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6 minutes ago, Reign said:

I’m surprised people have Godinho over ZBG on RB for the important games. Godinho was not as good as ZBG from what I seen last game. Could be rust, but I think ZBG has shown better for Canada so far. 

Agree, not gonna quote Brennan's whole post for the sake of scrolling conservation, but ZBG should probably be in over Godinho. He's gotten a decent amount of minutes at Montreal in a team that does a lot of defending.

The rest I agree with, except maybe Kaye next to Piette with Arfield ahead of them, instead of Osorio and Arfield ahead of Piette.

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11 minutes ago, Lansdude said:

Agree, not gonna quote Brennan's whole post for the sake of scrolling conservation, but ZBG should probably be in over Godinho. He's gotten a decent amount of minutes at Montreal in a team that does a lot of defending.

The rest I agree with, except maybe Kaye next to Piette with Arfield ahead of them, instead of Osorio and Arfield ahead of Piette.

ZBG should 100% be over Godinho right now. 

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Godinho had a shaky start to the 1st match, that's not shocking considering how little he has played for his club recently, I thought he really improved in the 2nd half, in saying this I have no problem with having a good look at ZBG in this position vs Mexico! Competition for spots and squad depth are immensely important for us moving forward! 

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59 minutes ago, Reign said:

I’m surprised people have Godinho over ZBG on RB for the important games. Godinho was not as good as ZBG from what I seen last game. Could be rust, but I think ZBG has shown better for Canada so far. 

I don't know about everyone else, but I am firmly convinced ZBG is a better player than Godinho right now.

Godinho is definitely an upgrade at right back compared to Aird and Petrasso, but he doesn't have consistency in his game yet. ZBG has that in spades and he plays like a veteran and makes very few errors.

Godinho by comparison is gaffe prone, just look at his backpass against Martinique. He made a big mistake for Hearts nearly every other game he played for them last season. This was the big criticism the Hearts fans had. They lambasted him for those mistakes, then he would turn around and have an outstanding game and they would all forgive him again. 

Give me the consistency of ZBG anyday of the week. 

Honestly, I feel people just see that Godinho plays for Hearts and give him the nod without actually analyzing his play and comparing it to ZBG. I watched Godihno four or five times with Hearts last season and his form was all over the map.

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^ good post. No doubting Godinho skill set there, luckily he is still young. I'm hoping he can find himself into a consistent club situation starting next fall. In my eyes it's really simply a lack of consistent playing time. For the most part, that is often the case with defenders.

It's a major catch 22, manager gets blasted when a defender makes a mistake and why he would start him, but defender needs game time to stay sharp and improve.

I do agree, Godinho and the back line and the defensive unit (including mids) were much more composed 2nd half vs martinique.

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6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I don't know about everyone else, but I am firmly convinced ZBG is a better player than Godinho right now.

Godinho is definitely an upgrade at right back compared to Aird and Petrasso, but he doesn't have consistency in his game yet. ZBG has that in spades and he plays like a veteran and makes very few errors.

Godinho by comparison is gaffe prone, just look at his backpass against Martinique. He made a big mistake for Hearts nearly every other game he played for them last season. This was the big criticism the Hearts fans had. They lambasted him for those mistakes, then he would turn around and have an outstanding game and they would all forgive him again. 

Give me the consistency of ZBG anyday of the week. 

Honestly, I feel people just see that Godinho plays for Hearts and give him the nod without actually analyzing his play and comparing it to ZBG. I watched Godihno four or five times with Hearts last season and his form was all over the map.

To be honest I haven't seen enough of ZBG to compare the two, you are correct, Godinho made some errors when he did play for Hearts, he also had some very good games which gives me hope, I did watch almost every minute he played for them! As I posted earlier, competition for places is good, I'm not willing to write off Godinho yet, he is coming off serious injury issues and played quite well the previous season for Hearts! 

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Posted (edited)

I'd like to see ZBG get the nod vs Mexico, Godinho has wheels but man ZBG is fast and from what I have seen an exceptional 1v1 tackler (knock on wood), because he will need that 1v1 defending vs the Mexican attack. Let Herdman decide after a full assessment of both who plays in the QF's.

I'm honestly curious what Herdman does with Hoilett, Arfield and Hutch this game.  Martinique was only a few days ago in the heat, +travel and now this game at altitude.

Having competed in endurance sport at high altitude, I'm telling you, legs can be zapped for 5-7 days after if you don't have the recovery on point. Especially since the boys will be playing 2x 45 mins at fairly high intensity with Mexico not being an easy task. Hopefully the right program is in place post game, even with the right program in place everyone recovers differently. Age is one of many factors in the recovery process.

Not that we need it, but I predict Cuba to be beyond gassed by the last game :). Herdman is exceptional from an attention to detail standpoint when he coached the women, so I would assume the same for the men.  Not getting too far ahead, but in addition to our skill level, I think we have a big edge of the "battle of sports science" here over Cuba.

Edited by apbsmith

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, apbsmith said:

I'd like to see ZBG get the nod vs Mexico, Godinho has wheels but man ZBG is fast and from what I have seen an exceptional 1v1 tackler (knock on wood), because he will need that 1v1 defending vs the Mexican attack. Let Herdman decide after a full assessment of both who plays in the QF's.

I'm honestly curious what Herdman does with Hoilett, Arfield and Hutch this game.  Martinique was only a few days ago in the heat, +travel and now this game at altitude.

Having competed in endurance sport at high altitude, I'm telling you, legs can be zapped for 5-7 days after if you don't have the recovery on point. Especially since the boys will be playing 2x 45 mins at fairly high intensity with Mexico not being an easy task. Hopefully the right program is in place post game, even with the right program in place everyone recovers differently. Age is one of many factors in the recovery process.

Not that we need it, but I predict Cuba to be beyond gassed by the last game :). Herdman is exceptional from an attention to detail standpoint when he coached the women, so I would assume the same for the men.  Not getting too far ahead, but in addition to our skill level, I think we have a big edge of the "battle of sports science" here over Cuba.

I can see him resting Hoilett and possibly Hutchinson, but I don't think Arfield gets dropped. He seems to be incredibly fit with a great engine and although his intensity dropped like everyone else, he looked to be one of the fresher flowers in a wilted bunch.

Edited by Obinna

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2 hours ago, gator said:

To be honest I haven't seen enough of ZBG to compare the two, you are correct, Godinho made some errors when he did play for Hearts, he also had some very good games which gives me hope, I did watch almost every minute he played for them! As I posted earlier, competition for places is good, I'm not willing to write off Godinho yet, he is coming off serious injury issues and played quite well the previous season for Hearts! 

I dont think anybody is saying to write off Godinho, kid has talent no doubt about it. I just think ZBG has one of the highest ceilings on the roster and already plays a mature game, and for that, should be starting at the moment. 

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This is why I suggested that both should be on the pitch. ZBG does seem to be way more consistent but he also showed a lot of great ability on the wing as well - it may be a really good mix and partnership to have both on the right side. 

I also think that Hoilett (even though he scored a goal) didn't have his best match the other day and both he and Davies prefer the left side. Having ZBG on his preferred right side, it creates a more natural positioning and gives us quite a bit of defence, technical ability and pace all over the entire pitch.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hodgkiss said:

This is why I suggested that both should be on the pitch. ZBG does seem to be way more consistent but he also showed a lot of great ability on the wing as well - it may be a really good mix and partnership to have both on the right side. 

I also think that Hoilett (even though he scored a goal) didn't have his best match the other day and both he and Davies prefer the left side. Having ZBG on his preferred right side, it creates a more natural positioning and gives us quite a bit of defence, technical ability and pace all over the entire pitch.

 

 

My worry for having both on the same side would be a lack of offense.

You can see that ZBG thinks like a two-way full back, so while I would expect him to be solid defensively as a midfielder, I don't think he'll be very threatening in attack. Sure, he will find peoples feet and get some good crosses in, but that would be about it.

That's based on what I saw the 2 times he played in midfield for Montreal, with Sanga behind him at right back.

I listened to ETR today and the panel's opinion on Godinho was that he looked fine in posession, but suspect defensively.

My opinion was that, aside from the backpass, Godinho did all he could against the very athletic Martinique attackers. For this reason, we may not want to play him against Haiti if we meet in the knockout rounds (if we have a choice).

ZBG seems to have just enough athleticism to fend off these sort of forwards which are common in teams like Jamaica, Honduras, etc.

Edited by Obinna

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3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I can see him resting Hoilett and possibly Hutchinson, but I don't think Arfield gets dropped. He seems to be incredibly fit with a great engine and although his intensity dropped like everyone else, he looked to be one of the fresher flowers in a wilted bunch.

But I remember Arfield be absolutely gassed against Jamaica during the last Gold Cup, and I think it would be wise to rest him for one of Mexico or Cuba, along with Hutch and Hoillet.  

Also, I am not convinced the Cubans are worse than Martinique. Meaning that I think the Mexicans might be even better than the first result of the tournament showed. I want us to play a smart game, but I also want us to be realistic (and smart) about squad rotation. We will likely clog the middle, play a lone holding striker up top, and then hope we can have composure when we win the ball and string some passes together, maybe strike on the counter.  Mexico will give us less space than Martinique, so we need to clean up the terrible give-aways.  We could scrape out a result, but it is going to be a massive task.

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Since Mexico actually has media that pays attention to soccer, here are a couple match preview videos for Spanish speakers out there. The FOX Deportes one is really weird lol

Also an interview with Cavallini (once again, thank you Spanish-speaking media lol)

 

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