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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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He also neglects to consider the difference in effect of losing as few as two clubs/franchises to low crowds in a CanPL and USL context. Potentially kills the league completely in the former case and things carry on pretty much as usual in the latter.

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1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Wait, now we aspire to be similar in success to the USL?

I thought we saw the USL as the anti-thesis of what we wanted to achieve?

That's me pointing out the double standards & biasness of the poster

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1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Wait, now we aspire to be similar in success to the USL?

I thought we saw the USL as the anti-thesis of what we wanted to achieve?

How did you get that from what he said? 

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2 hours ago, Ansem said:

That's me pointing out the double standards & biasness of the poster

But he has rightly said many times (including just now, above) that the number of teams in each league is an important distinction. For example, if 5000 fans per game is what is needed to sustain teams in USL and CPL, then as of the numbers you posted, USL will still have 12 teams, while CPL would have 3. If that number is 4000 instead of 5000, USL would have 18 teams while CPL would have... still just 3.

USL can survive some attrition, but CPL at the moment likely couldn't handle much at all, unless expansion teams were to come to the rescue.

Nice to see the good crowds for Forge and York 9 this week. Hopefully all teams can still have a couple good crowds before the season ends.

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This reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.  If you talk nonsense 90% of the time, eventually no on listens to anything you say that has any value.  And then you can make a big show of "getting back to the purpose of the thread" when it was your baloney that derailed it. You started this "papering the stadium" and claiming false attendance numbers before the first ball was kicked.  For what purpose??? I really dont understand, most intelligent people can admit there are a million different factors going into whether the league survives or not.  

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Good to see York9 with close to 3900 announced for Sunday's game, they're second biggest of the year so far. If they can finish with a few more strong #'s for their last 3 home games they could reach the 3K average mark from the 2700 average they're at now. No doubt weather will play a factor so hope it holds out on gameday's for the club which are three prime Saturday matches.

Typically the final home match has good attendance #'s so will be interesting to see the attendances over each of the clubs last few games. I expect Cavalry, FCE, and HFX to at draw close to or a bit above their averages, Forge should be solid around 6K, and York9 can hopefully stay above 3K. Valour and Pacific need to improve on their last few games #'s.

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15 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

^^^This bigoted intolerance is what kills off internet forums.

Just to be clear, you finally had a moment of clarity/self-awareness and intentionally pointed that comment at your own avatar, right? 

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10 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

...with a few more strong #'s for their last 3 home games they could reach the 3K average mark from the 2700 average they're at now...

And you honestly believe that bears any correlation to what is actually happening there in terms of paid attendance this season? Worth noting that this latest Y9 number has yet to appear in the stats on the league's website, so currently appears to be based on something somebody on Reddit was told by somebody he trusts but won't identify. Still no sign of a Pacific vs FCE number either.

We'll see what happens with Y9:

On 9/10/2019 at 4:53 PM, ironcub14 said:

...The biggest lesson I am taking away from the 2019 season for TFC and Y9 is that a CPL club has to have a nice stadium in a dense part of a metro area for it to thrive. There's some rumours in CanSoc circles in Toronto among long-time and well-connected V's, including those in CSA, about Y9's short-term future, and I absolutely hate to see it...

I doubt the above was simply a figment of ironcub14's imagination. Albert Einstein's definition of insanity was repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome. Hopefully the people in charge don't simply give up, but at the same realize that they need to make some major changes with Y9 if a sustainable GTA team is going to emerge in the years ahead.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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York should try playing in York if they want to appeal to people in their region. Also not playing next to one of the more dangerous neighbourhoods in the country would help with walk up traffic from locals

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1 minute ago, KW519 said:

York should try playing in York if they want to appeal to people in their region. Also not playing next to one of the more dangerous neighbourhoods in the country would help with walk up traffic from locals

LOL. No one's walking through Jane & Finch to get to the north end of York University.

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8 minutes ago, RS said:

LOL. No one's walking through Jane & Finch to get to the north end of York University.

Was thinking more Shoreham-Jane-Driftwood, but exactly. 

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On 9/16/2019 at 10:03 PM, The Real Marc said:

What I find completely mind-boggling that neither side can recognize the validity of the point the other is making. This is the internet at its worst. Yes, it is the M.O. of most leagues and a standard operating practice. Yes, a first year team in a first year league reporting 2500 when its more like 900 is more worrying than an established big league club adding a few thousand to a five figure attendance. Not hard guys.

A big reason why I choose not to wade into this thread if possible. Great points.

We all know there are a couple dozen revenue sources for any professional club, but you'd have to be blind if you were at or saw some of those low-attended games at Y9, Edmonton or Pacific and not be at least slightly concerned for the clubs. Blind optimism will kill much faster than blind pessimism, because at least with the latter, you're far more likely to be spurred into action.

I do hope everybody who is spending their time commenting on this thread or this forum who lives in the catchment area of a CPL club has done their active part in supporting their local CPL club. Season tickets, single tickets, food and bevvies, merch, invite their friends and fam. I'm sure the vast majority of us have, but you never know sometimes with some of the keyboard warriors out there. And keep it up. Keep doing what we can to add to the official attendance figures, it starts with us.

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2 hours ago, ironcub14 said:

We all know there are a couple dozen revenue sources for any professional club, but you'd have to be blind if you were at or saw some of those low-attended games at Y9, Edmonton or Pacific and not be at least slightly concerned for the clubs.

Did anyone realistically expect  Pacific to average more than 3,000 per game in season one?  That's the number we are headed for and is something that can be built on when the league announces they will be back for a second season.

I have lots of concerns for the club such as how many players can we bring back in 2020? Will the Hydro Pole be moved in time for next season? Can we get some transfer money when Campbell gets signed by another club?  When will the Saltchuck Pie truck finally be at games?

Attendance numbers? Disappointed is the word I would use in that regard.

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On 9/17/2019 at 12:40 AM, CDNFootballer said:

 

Sure there's some low points here, but if you had said two years ago that this league would be averaging 4500 in announced attendance towards the end of season one - especially considering some of the ticket prices we're seeing - I think most people would have been pleasantly happy with that.

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4 hours ago, ted said:

When will the Saltchuck Pie truck finally be at games?

This is, by far, the most important question you listed. Where are the pies?

--

On a more substantial note (although those pies are pretty substantial...), I'm not concerned about the attendance numbers this year. This year is about setting a baseline to measure against next year. Attributing much more than that to these numbers is folly, IMO.

The more important metrics will be season ticket renewal & growth. Yes, we would all love to fill the stadiums every week, but so long as we're looking at a high renewal rate & positive growth rate for seasons, I won't be concerned at any team. Will we be privileged with that particular information?

Given the CPL's penchant for not sharing information, probably not.

We may need to rely on supporters membership renewals & growth to give us a loose idea of what may be happening on a larger scale.

--

Also, Pacific vs FCE attendance is now posted at 2,017. Those obsessed with that particular metric can now proceed with posting screenshots & the like.

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On 9/10/2019 at 10:53 AM, ironcub14 said:

The biggest lesson I am taking away from the 2019 season for TFC and Y9 is that a CPL club has to have a nice stadium in a dense part of a metro area for it to thrive. There's some rumours in CanSoc circles in Toronto among long-time and well-connected V's, including those in CSA, about Y9's short-term future, and I absolutely hate to see it.

For what it's worth, York9 sent out an email this afternoon indicating that STH renewal info will be announced in the coming weeks.

---

In August, we sent out a fan survey because we wanted to hear from YOU, the supporters. We received a tremendous amount of feedback on our season, our stadium, what is expected of us next season and beyond. And for that, we thank you.

We want you to know that you've been heard, loud and clear, and you'll start to see some of those changes as we move into our Season Ticket Renewal phase in the coming weeks.

You can also expect a call from your Season Ticket Representative shortly, just to ask for any other feedback on our Inaugural Season.

A club is nothing without its fans, and we cannot thank you enough for your support. We look forward to continue growing this club with you for years to come!

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I still contend the biggest impact on attendance for next year will be if they get an 8th team (probably Ottawa) and play all or the vast majority of their matches on the weekends.  

When I look at the sides, most people are concerned about York 9 or Pacific but it seems to me those 2 are doing the right things (or making the right noises at least) to build their cultures and to grow the gate over time.  York 9 also has deep pockets and if they do ultimately build a stadium, I think that alone will give them a jump in attendance.

In many ways, I am more worried about FC Edmonton as they have consistently proved since their days in the NASL that they cannot consistently get bums on seats.  I never get the idea that the Faith's really understand this business and I think that impacts their ability to reach people in Edmonton (and a poor track record on attendance doesn't help in building momentum).

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I always provide a url, so for completeness:

https://ca.soccerway.com/matches/2019/09/18/canada/canadian-premier-league/hfx-wanderers/forge/2991881/

A 5826 announced crowd that genuinely looked like 5000+ in the highlights with relatively few season ticket holder no shows due to the awkward ko time.

That shows that weeknight games can work OK, in markets where fan interest is strong.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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