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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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One problem with the Eddies is they don't seriously market themselves so they are stuck with the same base that never seems to grow much. I'm sure the Fath's thought they would be averaging more rather than roughly 300 less per game in CPL vs NASL 2017 numbers. Luckily expenses are less and the mediapro deal brings in $ or I'd worry about their longevity.

Comparing to their last year in NASL in 2017, they averaged 3408 per game, compared to their current CPL average of 3040 per game.

Edited by CDNFootballer

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On 9/19/2019 at 9:47 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The Fury picture above is a hint at how seriously you should take some of these numbers. The Fury tend to use discount season ticket sales through youth clubs to pad their stats and that leads to unusually low crowds when the youth soccer types don't show up. From what I saw on Reddit during the game there was a suggestion that a lot of free tickets had been distributed amongst York students.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’ve never been to a Fury game.

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16 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I thought EFC had done a solid job on Clarke.  Not the same level as Pacific's, but I would have no problem watching games there.  The concessions were far better than IG Field.

 

Don't get it.  Yeah, OK, it a mechano set and it needs a roof over the main grandstand but it's got a good lay out, solid stands all around, lots of parking, is within sight of a train station and $6 beer that isn't Budweiser.  I expect they're still trying to figure out their market, same as every other CPL city. 

Hell, the league as an entity is still trying to figure out their market.

Lots of work in the close season but at least now there is some sort of data to work with and no shortage (I am sure) of feedback from the marketplace.  Everyone is going to look at what did and didn't work.  Pricing, fixture dates, sponsorship and business sales,community outreach.  All of it.

And that included Valour.  Think they can call Year 1 a success off-field, mostly, but they're underachieving big time and I hope they realize that.  You're accepting too low a ceiling if it's good enough to just let the product sell itself.  Valour just doesn't have that sort of market presence yet and it'll take time, effort, and of course some patience to make that happen.

Funny, still five matches left and I'm already looking forward to next season.   Bigger & better! 

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2 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Don't get it.  Yeah, OK, it a mechano set and it needs a roof over the main grandstand but it's got a good lay out, solid stands all around, lots of parking, is within sight of a train station and $6 beer that isn't Budweiser. 

[snip]

Funny, still five matches left and I'm already looking forward to next season.   Bigger & better! 

As someone who has never been there, I understand from people who have, that the location is simply too far out out of the way. I have been told it feels like a chore to get there. Parking and transit is great but if the perception persists that it is a chore to get there, attendance will continue to suffer until and unless people feel more urgency to attend.

I think your last point is critical to the league. If I was running marketing for the league #seeyounextyear would the hashtag for the last games of the season. I would have giant banners carried onto the fields by players that say "See you next year". We have established the base of something wonderful and can build on that next year.

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32 minutes ago, ted said:

As someone who has never been there, I understand from people who have, that the location is simply too far out out of the way. I have been told it feels like a chore to get there. Parking and transit is great but if the perception persists that it is a chore to get there, attendance will continue to suffer until and unless people feel more urgency to attend.

I think your last point is critical to the league. If I was running marketing for the league #seeyounextyear would the hashtag for the last games of the season. I would have giant banners carried onto the fields by players that say "See you next year". We have established the base of something wonderful and can build on that next year.

It’s right next to the Eskimos stadium that 30k a week seem willing to attend

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22 hours ago, Winnipeg Fury said:

I thought EFC had done a solid job on Clarke.  Not the same level as Pacific's, but I would have no problem watching games there.  The concessions were far better than IG Field.

As someone who's been there multiple times in the last few years, I have to say that Clarke Field is probably one of the biggest reasons people are staying away from FC Edmonton games. It is an absolute dump. There are other reasons such as the lack of marketing, absence of any sort of growth in the supporters scene, and complete mediocrity on the pitch, but Clarke has to be the biggest.

The stadium has all the drawbacks of a temporary stadium without any of the benefits, such as being a stadium that is solely built for soccer and fosters the atmosphere people are drawn to. The family section is 20 yards back from the goal, the supporters section is close but you can't see the game unless you're at the top of the stand, there are barely any food and concessions near the main stand, the once decent state of the turf has deteriorated and the stadium itself in a sketchy location. It is near the LRT but also requires a 10 minute walk through said sketchy location to get to the stadium. The views from the main blue stand are quite nice, but you also feel like the stand could blow over at any moment. Beer is $6, but it is also half the size of the beers at Spruce Meadows, so not quite the attractive price one might think. 

If the Fath’s had any sense on how to run a soccer club they would have had the foresight to build a soccer specific stadium with temp stands elsewhere in the city - something that Cavalry, Halifax and Pacific have done.

I don't think any stadium in the CPL is perfect, but Edmonton's is by far the worst. And until Fath changes things up, attendance will continue to suffer in Edmonton.

Edited by shermanator

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2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

It’s right next to the Eskimos stadium that 30k a week seem willing to attend

Exactly the point of my "urgency" comment. The Eskimos attendance is not negatively affected by the location of the stadium because CFL games are such a big event that people are willing to overcome their concerns about the trip. It feels worth it to them because they know what they are getting and they have a relationship with the team. Overcoming barriers to getting new fans is as huge part of marketing.
 

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5 minutes ago, ted said:

Exactly the point of my "urgency" comment. The Eskimos attendance is not negatively affected by the location of the stadium because CFL games are such a big event that people are willing to overcome their concerns about the trip. It feels worth it to them because they know what they are getting and they have a relationship with the team. Overcoming barriers to getting new fans is as huge part of marketing.
 

I should have added that it’s not a difficult place to get to. It’s close to downtown and it’s on the LRT line. Westhills is much less accessible, and I still don’t think the location is that bad

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1 hour ago, shermanator said:

As someone who's been there multiple times in the last few years, I have to say that Clarke Field is probably one of the biggest reasons people are staying away from FC Edmonton games. It is an absolute dump. There are other reasons such as the lack of marketing, absence of any sort of growth in the supporters scene, and complete mediocrity on the pitch, but Clarke has to be the biggest.

The stadium has all the drawbacks of a temporary stadium without any of the benefits, such as being a stadium that is solely built for soccer and fosters the atmosphere people are drawn to. The family section is 20 yards back from the goal, the supporters section is close but you can't see the game unless you're at the top of the stand, there are barely any food and concessions near the main stand, the once decent state of the turf has deteriorated and the stadium itself in a sketchy location. It is near the LRT but also requires a 10 minute walk through said sketchy location to get to the stadium. The views from the main blue stand are quite nice, but you also feel like the stand could blow over at any moment. Beer is $6, but it is also half the size of the beers at Spruce Meadows, so not quite the attractive price one might think. 

If the Fath’s had any sense on how to run a soccer club they would have had the foresight to build a soccer specific stadium with temp stands elsewhere in the city - something that Cavalry, Halifax and Pacific have done.

I don't think any stadium in the CPL is perfect, but Edmonton's is by far the worst. And until Fath changes things up, attendance will continue to suffer in Edmonton.

 

I would have no problem buying a season ticket to EFC.  EFC season tickets are dirt cheap and INCLUDE a jersey.  Right now a 5 game pack for $80 AND a free jersey, (which retails for $110) !  The drinks at Clarke are half the price and twice the quality over IG Field (Newcastle for $6 !).  And the concessions are also half the price and twice the quality.  

VFC are playing on a CFL field and the supporters section starts at the back corner of an end zone.  Much further than EFC fans located anywhere at Clarke.  Generally speaking, you are much closer to the field at Clarke than anywhere at IGF.

Clarke's concessions may not be huge, but when you are averaging 3000, it is absolutely fine.  I had a quality dog and Newcastle in my hand in 2 minutes.  IGF doesn't sell quality like Newcastle, only crap beer for twice the price.

I would say EFC fans are getting far better value for their money than Valour fans.  The game day experience at Clarke was absolutely fine.  It has to be a lack of marketing, because at the prices EFC charge, they are basically giving tickets away.

 

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Regarding the VFC supporters' section, I wonder if Valour might narrow their available sections by one at each end and move the supporter's section to 101. They've had a few "sellouts" of their regular allotment but not often enough that it makes sense to isolate the Trench so far into the corner.

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Im with Aird the location is not difficult at all to get to and i'm coming all the way from the west side. Hard to find a better location that close to downtown

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22 hours ago, shermanator said:

As someone who's been there multiple times in the last few years, I have to say that Clarke Field is probably one of the biggest reasons people are staying away from FC Edmonton games. It is an absolute dump. There are other reasons such as the lack of marketing, absence of any sort of growth in the supporters scene, and complete mediocrity on the pitch, but Clarke has to be the biggest.

The stadium has all the drawbacks of a temporary stadium without any of the benefits, such as being a stadium that is solely built for soccer and fosters the atmosphere people are drawn to. The family section is 20 yards back from the goal, the supporters section is close but you can't see the game unless you're at the top of the stand, there are barely any food and concessions near the main stand, the once decent state of the turf has deteriorated and the stadium itself in a sketchy location. It is near the LRT but also requires a 10 minute walk through said sketchy location to get to the stadium. The views from the main blue stand are quite nice, but you also feel like the stand could blow over at any moment. Beer is $6, but it is also half the size of the beers at Spruce Meadows, so not quite the attractive price one might think. 

If the Fath’s had any sense on how to run a soccer club they would have had the foresight to build a soccer specific stadium with temp stands elsewhere in the city - something that Cavalry, Halifax and Pacific have done.

I don't think any stadium in the CPL is perfect, but Edmonton's is by far the worst. And until Fath changes things up, attendance will continue to suffer in Edmonton.

And that pretty much support what I was saying.

FC Edmonton doesn't have a problem attracting hardcores and big soccer fans. Converting "Casuals" & "none-fans" is the biggest issue and you're right, that stadium won't do.

Edmonton has "World Class" venues for hockey and football. Casuals would be more inclined to check out CPL if FCE also had a "Westhills Stadium" type of venue at the minimum.

I can speak for Montreal where I grew up, it took Saputo stadium for the Impact to have any remote amount of credibility or attract some casuals. We had Olympic Stadium for baseball, Forum & Bell centre for the Habs and Percival Molson for the Alouettes.

There's no way Montrealers would take Centre Claude Robillard seriously for soccer.

realisation-complexe-laude-robillard-pis

It took Saputo which was somewhat of a "Wanderers Grounds +" Stade_Saputo.jpg

Edmonton should have had this at the bare minimum. I recall Clanachan suggesting that Edmonton might need a new venue altogether. He wasn't wrong about that.

This is where the owners needs a vision because Edmonton has all the tools to ace it. The stadium and elevating the team status are their #1 priority. Until then, low attendance will be the  new normal which is dangerous. If the on pitch product gets too poor to keep hardcores from going, that's really bad. You need the casuals to go and get converted. 

Clarke Stadium is a massive tough sell to casuals in a city like Edmonton like Claude Robillard was in Montreal. It took Saputo Stadium, Edmonton needs something similar to what Halifax has done at the minimum.

Hoping the Fath Brothers aren't trapped in the sunk cost fallacy loop... best to let go and look for something new

Edited by Ansem

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20 minutes ago, Big_M said:

claude robillard was such a hard sell that it was packed with 10k+

After their Champions League run? 

People will tell you that Impact barely never made the news outside of their 2009 Champions league run and once they moved to MLS.

Edited by Ansem

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Part of the problem in Edmonton is that the Eskimos and the local gridiron football community view it as their stadium because the Eskimos train there, and two CJFL teams and high schools play their games there. The gridiron people are not willing to see Clarke Stadium fully retrofitted for soccer in a manner that might work better for FCE, and were not willing to provide FCE with a favourable deal where access to game day revenues steams were concerned. Not sure if that last bit is still the case after the negotiations that took place early last year.

The city council have stated that FCE will have to fill Clarke stadium to capacity regularly before they will consider funding a larger SSS and the Faths don't appear eager to fund something new themselves. No easy answers on this in other words, so Edmonton provides an example of how some teams are likely to plod along for many years going nowhere fast on attendance rather than following the Halifax trajectory, especially if like FCE they manage to severely antagonize youth clubs along the way by pushing the academy angle aggressively, making group sales harder to do than they might have been.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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2 hours ago, Big_M said:

claude robillard was such a hard sell that it was packed with 10k+

Yes, Claude Robillard was always packed before their champions league run.

Edited by Stanley
More info

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People worried about Edmonton don’t know what is actually going on in the community. The Edmonton clubs don’t resent the academy. And Edmonton is updating their academy setup to better support all top players in the city. As far as the stadium atmosphere, it may seem empty, but the fans are very engaged. The attendance is not super high, but many season ticket holders just don’t show up all the time. It is a weird situation, tickets are selling, and the club is growing, it just isn’t “sexy” like Halifax. The management in Edmonton is very knowledgeable and the club will continue to grow. Having been a fan of the club for years I can tell you that there is more interest this year than any year.

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As usual, Ozzie the Parrot / BBTB is so full of **** I can give him an enema and stuff him in a matchbox.

No, the SIROCCO code was not the sole reason why Cavalry drew almost 4000. Don't get me wrong, the code helped convince some who were on the fence, but there is something really great brewing in Calgary. 

The club is generating a significant buzz in the city. They have been marketed well, they have the perfect sized ground for CPL that has a feel that satisfies the traditionalists, they have a good team to watch once people get in the grounds, they have the local sports media on board, and a front office who is willing to listen to supporters and will correct mistakes (of which there have been many in year 1). And I would argue the most important thing going is the atmosphere that those of us in the 200s is drawing more and more people to games. It's not just a soccer game, it's a good time regardless of who you are. People who go to games come back.

Edmonton has the same perfect conditions for a game 24 hours ago and draws significantly less. With a club that's been around since 2010. 

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Worth noting that at no point did I state that the SIROCCO code was the sole reason that Cavalry drew 4000. It also should have been clear from the phrasing that the issue in Edmonton I referred to was something that happened years ago when FCE was starting up and was at roughly the same stage Halifax is now.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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