2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

[KW519]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure what most of that has to do with this thread. You appear to be reading way more into posts than is actually there. The main reason why it would be better for the league to keep things grounded in reality where attendance numbers are concerned as some of the teams have been doing most of the time this season is that it helps people to understand why they are not watching any CMNT regulars or big money import signings and to be content with what they have.

What do you mean by "believe the league can actually work" after you bash the crowd in Hamilton? Comes off as you implying the clubs need instant high attendance to be sustainable. My bad if im off base

 

 

[narduch]

1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

It actually happens in every league in North America, so much so that it's the status quo. It's been done routinely in the NFL, NHL, MLB and minor leagues, even college football has had this issue the last couple seasons. 

Because of that no one obsesses about it, except for you.

It happens especially in MLS, a lot. The league that this guy fawns over

[MM3/MM2/MM]

As a point of interest, Steven Vitoria's team in Portugal's tier 1 averaged 2,274 last season and are under 2000 this season, I would think a much higher salary budget and less travel  costs, but puts into context the CanPl attendances, i think if you take the bottom 10 teams in Portugal's Tier 1, their attendance average is less then the CanPL.

Edited September 16, 2019 by MM3/MM2/MM

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The timeline would be whether the league is still around 10 years from now. Halifax are already at where things will definitely need to be across most of the league on fan interest by that point or investors are likely to have lost patience. Having a model franchise like that is very important for being able to convince others to invest. 

Winnipeg, Hamilton and Calgary are far enough along to be viewed as a reasonable start but probably not quite where the league would have hoped to be, Victoria looks OK occasionally and other times such as the last two games worrying, while Edmonton and York are definitely in the worrying category.

[BuzzAndSting]

56 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The timeline would be whether the league is still around 10 years from now. Halifax are already at where things will definitely need to be across most of the league on fan interest by that point or investors are likely to have lost patience. Having a model franchise like that is very important for being able to convince others to invest. 

Winnipeg, Hamilton and Calgary are far enough along to be viewed as a reasonable start but probably not quite where the league would have hoped to be, Victoria looks OK occasionally and other times such as the last two games worrying, while Edmonton and York are definitely in the worrying category.

Except you’re not qualified to make any of these assessments because you only have access to and are basing everything on one parameter.

[CDNFootballer]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 The main reason why it would be better for the league to keep things grounded in reality where attendance numbers are concerned

Beyond that if you look at the history of pro soccer in North America a recurring pattern is that pretending you have significantly larger crowds than you actually do usually doesn't lead anywhere good because it suggests ownership are not comfortable with how things are really going and may soon tire of not having what they really want. Hopefully the downsize on active capacity in Hamilton will be a case of far fewer freebies and cut price deals happening in year two with a focus on catering to the core ticket paying fanbase after using year one to get lots of people in to sample the product.

The CPL clubs announce tickets distributed like other pro sports leagues and that is the reality, they're not "pretending" they have significantly larger crowds at all. Pretending is you claiming an attendance number that Pacific FC never had on Sept 11(1200) is real.

All pro sports teams offer freebies and you have no idea the amount Hamilton offers or if its any different in percentage on average than other NA sports teams.

[Gopherbashi]

I'm not going to lie, whenever I see entire sections near the first base line at the Skydome practically empty, I think there's no way in hell they're even close to their reported 21k average attendance.

Then I think of this thread.

[Aird25]

I’m just amazed how many times people are willing to have the same argument

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I’m just amazed how many times people are willing to have the same argument

Welcome to the internet.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm not going to lie, whenever I see entire sections near the first base line at the Skydome practically empty, I think there's no way in hell they're even close to their reported 21k average attendance.

Then I think of this thread.

They better turn it around if they want to be around in 10 years!!! /s

[The Real Marc]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I’m just amazed how many times people are willing to have the same argument

What I find completely mind-boggling that neither side can recognize the validity of the point the other is making. This is the internet at its worst. Yes, it is the M.O. of most leagues and a standard operating practice. Yes, a first year team in a first year league reporting 2500 when its more like 900 is more worrying than an established big league club adding a few thousand to a five figure attendance. Not hard guys.

[Bison44]

3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm not going to lie, whenever I see entire sections near the first base line at the Skydome practically empty, I think there's no way in hell they're even close to their reported 21k average attendance.

Then I think of this thread.

I never...EVER thought about what percentage of tickets sales were freebies, or would have ever dreamed of searching ticket master to try count blue dots and prove/disprove a teams announced attendance. Let alone do that after almost every game all season.  

The almost constant narrative that started IMMEDIATELY after launch, that certain teams were in trouble, the league isnt doing as well as everyone here thinks and the fact finding missions to go and try and prove it, for some sort of NAH NAH NAH, I"m smarter you than you ego trip, is what really makes me wonder.  I cant believe this lasted the entire season.  

[CDNFootballer]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

6 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

...Yes, a first year team in a first year league reporting 2500 when its more like 900 is more worrying than an established big league club adding a few thousand to a five figure attendance...

Amidst all the deflection and whataboutery to use a UK expression that's the part that is genuinely on topic for this thread. Still no crowd number for Pacific vs FCE. Announcing that there were 2500 people there towards the end of the game on Saturday would have invited ridicule on a nationally televised broadcast but I thought they would have circulated something by now.

The first step to solving an issue is admitting that you have a problem that needs to be fixed. The optimistic outlook on this that I am reasonably confident is what's going on is that they have found out the hard way why North American pro leagues have playoffs in the absence of relegation. Once teams are out of contention for the championship title a lot of fans will lose interest and drift away. The average Canadian soccer fan really wasn't craving Euro style authenticity that MLS wasn't providing them regardless of what a few hipsters types who have yet to show up in any huge numbers at York 9's league games were posting online.

The league will find out if a more pessimistic outlook was applicable once they know what season ticket renewal rates are looking like.

[SthMelbRed]

55 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The first step to solving an issue is admitting that you have a problem that needs to be fixed.

Are you finally going to engage in some soul searching to determine why it is that your personality is so universally considered to be repellent by those you come across?

[Macksam]

9 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I never...EVER thought about what percentage of tickets sales were freebies, or would have ever dreamed of searching ticket master to try count blue dots and prove/disprove a teams announced attendance. Let alone do that after almost every game all season.  

The almost constant narrative that started IMMEDIATELY after launch, that certain teams were in trouble, the league isnt doing as well as everyone here thinks and the fact finding missions to go and try and prove it, for some sort of NAH NAH NAH, I"m smarter you than you ego trip, is what really makes me wonder.  I cant believe this lasted the entire season.  

This is it exactly. BBTB/Ozzie is still sour this league started without USL involvement or the MLS reserve teams, proving his viewpoints to be wrong that he is itching for any little evidence the league is not doing well to eventually say “I told you so.” He is an insecure man that wants to be right rather than see the league succeed and he will grasp at any straws to see that objective through.

[Ansem]

16 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not sure what most of that has to do with this thread. You appear to be reading way more into posts than is actually there. The main reason why it would be better for the league to keep things grounded in reality where attendance numbers are concerned as some of the teams have been doing most of the time this season is that it helps people to understand why they are not watching any CMNT regulars or big money import signings and to be content with what they have.

Beyond that if you look at the history of pro soccer in North America a recurring pattern is that pretending you have significantly larger crowds than you actually do usually doesn't lead anywhere good because it suggests ownership are not comfortable with how things are really going and may soon tire of not having what they really want. Hopefully the downsize on active capacity in Hamilton will be a case of far fewer freebies and cut price deals happening in year two with a focus on catering to the core ticket paying fanbase after using year one to get lots of people in to sample the product.

So, should we start lamenting about the unevitable doom of the USL?

Where's that same criticisms for the USL, a league you are still claiming should have been the focus of the CSA instead of launching CPL

@admin This is clearly trolling and a distraction at discussing more productive things... this none sense turns people off from this thread like it did on the Voyageurs.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

^^^This bigoted intolerance is what kills off internet forums.

[The Real Marc]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So, should we start lamenting about the unevitable doom of the USL?

 

Wait, now we aspire to be similar in success to the USL?

I thought we saw the USL as the anti-thesis of what we wanted to achieve?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

He also neglects to consider the difference in effect of losing as few as two clubs/franchises to low crowds in a CanPL and USL context. Potentially kills the league completely in the former case and things carry on pretty much as usual in the latter.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Wait, now we aspire to be similar in success to the USL?

I thought we saw the USL as the anti-thesis of what we wanted to achieve?

That's me pointing out the double standards & biasness of the poster

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

Wait, now we aspire to be similar in success to the USL?

I thought we saw the USL as the anti-thesis of what we wanted to achieve?

How did you get that from what he said? 

[narduch]

OTP spends a lot of time on Reddit. The CPL forum there is full of pro MLS (mostly American) posters. It probably helps shape his pro-MLS views.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

That's me pointing out the double standards & biasness of the poster

But he has rightly said many times (including just now, above) that the number of teams in each league is an important distinction. For example, if 5000 fans per game is what is needed to sustain teams in USL and CPL, then as of the numbers you posted, USL will still have 12 teams, while CPL would have 3. If that number is 4000 instead of 5000, USL would have 18 teams while CPL would have... still just 3.

USL can survive some attrition, but CPL at the moment likely couldn't handle much at all, unless expansion teams were to come to the rescue.

Nice to see the good crowds for Forge and York 9 this week. Hopefully all teams can still have a couple good crowds before the season ends.

[Bison44]

This reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.  If you talk nonsense 90% of the time, eventually no on listens to anything you say that has any value.  And then you can make a big show of "getting back to the purpose of the thread" when it was your baloney that derailed it. You started this "papering the stadium" and claiming false attendance numbers before the first ball was kicked.  For what purpose??? I really dont understand, most intelligent people can admit there are a million different factors going into whether the league survives or not.