Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If there were 6800+ in the actual seats it would. Unlike in Winnipeg, it never looks quite full enough to me in the highlights to match the announced numbers or what you would expect based on ticketmaster where there are usually very few blue dots:

Regardless of what the announced numbers suggest I suspect Halifax and Winnipeg are ahead of Hamilton on actual attendance. Those two are providing plenty of reasons to believe it can work overall, so the league is doing OK as long as it doesn't take more than a couple more years max to get some expansion happening.

The thing with Winnipeg is that they only open the third of the lower bowl opposite the cameras. If the cameras were on the other side, IGF would look empty.

In Hamilton it seems as though they open the entire lower "bowl" so it is not surprising that the crowd looks a fair bit thinner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's still always looking too thin though even allowing for that. You need around 70% of the seats filled in the active sections for 6800 to be credible in actual terms, because they are not using all of the lower bowl and they are only using part of the small mezzanine level on one side. Don't doubt it's accurate on tickets distributed, so it could be stuff like tickets to corporate sponsors going unused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It's still always looking too thin though even allowing for that. You need around 70% of the seats filled in the active sections for 6800 to be credible in actual terms, because they are not using all of the lower bowl and they are only using part of the small mezzanine level on one side. Don't doubt it's accurate on tickets distributed, so it could be stuff like tickets to corporate sponsors going unused.

Hamilton's lower "bowl" only holds 10k? Are you sure? IGF is around 23k and although IGF goes all the way around, THF seems to have more rows on the sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lofty said:

Hamilton's lower "bowl" only holds 10k? Are you sure? IGF is around 23k and although IGF goes all the way around, THF seems to have more rows on the sides.

Yeah capacity without upper decks is about 10000 here in Hamilton.  And I'd agree there has been a difference between announced and actual attendance but not enough to make me concerned.  Still somewhere between 4500 and 6000 every game I'd say.  And in Hamilton much like Winnipeg half the city is at cottages summer weekends so I'm sure that explains empty seats at times for season's ticket holders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't really accurately judge via highlights or broadcast how full or not a stadium is most times, many variables involved as well as in time of the match, seating on the camera side not shown, fans in the concourse or beer garden, etc.

 

It may be fun for some but doesn't mean much in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Yeah capacity without upper decks is about 10000 here in Hamilton. 

...

Whoah.  Really?  I know Tim Horton is smaller but that's surprising.

You always have people watching from the concourse.  At IGF its good and bad in spots for that but have noticed where I live there's probably a regular dozen who perch for most of the match and an equal number who come and go for periods.  Its kinda funny because STH are scarce in the upper rows of my section so you get to know who the usual suspects are.

Our seats are almost level with the concourse, picked them (in part) because I can't help but stand and don't want to bother anyone.  At IGF it's actually a very good height to take in the match.  There's louge sections they've screened off so they're not so good for taking in the match but overall still plenty of room for squatters.   

    

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

You can't really accurately judge via highlights or broadcast how full or not a stadium is most times, many variables involved as well as in time of the match, seating on the camera side not shown, fans in the concourse or beer garden, etc.

 

It may be fun for some but doesn't mean much in the end.

Yeah the concourses are usually packed at THF, even during play.. which doesn’t look great on tv but is good news for the owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, so I officially have no life: I was curious about the capacity of the lower level at THF, so I counted the seats on Ticketmaster. The total combined capacity of the lower bowl is 12,097 (6,183 on the Melrose Ave. side, and 5,914 on the Balsam Ave. side). Mind you, this includes all sections from corner to corner. I'm not too surprised with the number I came up with because the lower level of seats does jut out farther into the corners than seats higher up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Toronto Ruffrider said:

Alright, so I officially have no life: I was curious about the capacity of the lower level at THF, so I counted the seats on Ticketmaster. The total combined capacity of the lower bowl is 12,097 (6,183 on the Melrose Ave. side, and 5,914 on the Balsam Ave. side). Mind you, this includes all sections from corner to corner. I'm not too surprised with the number I came up with because the lower level of seats does jut out farther into the corners than seats higher up.

Is there a combo thank you and sad reaction??   This post deserves it....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Toronto Ruffrider said:

Alright, so I officially have no life: I was curious about the capacity of the lower level at THF, so I counted the seats on Ticketmaster. The total combined capacity of the lower bowl is 12,097 (6,183 on the Melrose Ave. side, and 5,914 on the Balsam Ave. side)....

...but it's important to bear in mind that not all of the lower bowl is actually being used. The outer corner sections are not being used on both sides and the top few rows are tarped off on the two-tier side (much to gator's chagrin from what I remember as he had to move seats). That will reduce the active capacity involved by over 2000.

Forge-FCE.png

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...but it's important to bear in mind that not all of the lower bowl is actually being used. The outer corner sections are not being used on both sides and the top few rows are tarped off on the two-tier side (much to gator's chagrin from what I remember as he had to move seats). That will reduce the active capacity involved by over 2000.

Forge-FCE.png

I know. That's why I said "mind you, this includes all sections from corner to corner." I'm not sure why you excluded that part of my post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those in Winnipeg, you may find it interesting that THF has more seats between the goal lines (in CFL terms) than does IGF. I think this also means for CFL that Hamilton has higher average ticket prices. The capacity for Forge matches is about 10,600 including club seats, where one can go inside to get out of the elements. I think the announced attendance for the Cavalry match was reasonable for how many people were actually there. Now as for Ticketmaster, it showed almost no tickets for sale for the match, meaning tickets "distributed" were over 10,000 unless someone else knows better how the whole ticket racket really works. Hence, the announced attendance of 6,800 is not tickets distributed. As for the above screenshot, I'm pretty sure I was in the concourse on the west side at that time, waiting for the rain to stop. Maybe I should buy tickets on the east side next year so attendance will look closer to announced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

My understanding is that it could be less than 10,600 because sections 102 and 108 (roughly 1300 seats) are not always in use on the three-tier side. It's not safe to assume that all of the possible unsold ticket inventory is being shown on Ticketmaster.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Wednesday's Matches :

 

Cavalry FC.......................3050

Valour FC.........................4346

Valour:

https://ca.soccerway.com/matches/2019/08/29/canada/canadian-premier-league/valour/hfx-wanderers/2991888/

Cavalry:

https://ca.soccerway.com/matches/2019/08/29/canada/canadian-premier-league/cavalry/canada-pacific-fc/2991889/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Forge's capacity at THF for CPL games is 10016.

The luxury boxes probably account for how it can be that high without 102 and 108 being in use, which brings us back full circle to 6800 announced needing the seats in the active sections to be around 70% full. I get skeptical in a way I don't with the numbers in Halifax (one weeknight cup game excepted) when I see stuff like the three-tier side in this YouTube clip:

Healthy enough looking crowd so nothing much to worry about in big picture terms but there are better things happening elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we see with CPL attendance is pretty much the same with other league's, you have your "Portland Timbers" type market (Halifax), your Chicago/Houston type market (York9), and then others in between. Every league has these types and as far as skepticallity is concerned (did I make a new word?) lets remember attendance is Tickets Distributed (sold/comped/) numbers not turnstile, and with the varying sizes of stadiums its near impossible to eyeball the crowds numbers accurately, especially from streams, highlights, and the other variables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ansem said:

I'll be looking forward for a detailed analysis about the attendance for tonight's game in Honduras.

Complete with low angle, wide lens pics of the stands at different times of the game.  Plus any info on whether the were any free bees.  I'll start counting the blue dots on ticketmaster and we can match them up  to individual people we see in the stands.  Oh and someone should check the redditt boards and report back on any rumors they see there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

... lets remember attendance is Tickets Distributed (sold/comped/) numbers not turnstile, ...

That's been the point I have been making. Some of the teams appear to probably be papering the house, while others appear to have announced numbers that match a lot more closely with the actual turnstile number.  Best to bear that sort of thing in mind when discussing what sort of crowds the league is likely to be budgeting for moving forward and what represents a bad crowd that should be cause for concern. 2700 in Langford is not necessarily the same as 2700 at York U.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shouldn't jump to the conclusion of some teams appearing to be probably papering the house though, disparities in number of no shows can be for various legitimate reasons in different markets. Some clubs may have more corporate/sponsor seats sold than others for instance, an area where there are usually a high rate of no shows. FC Edmonton as an example, had a section of seats sold in one of their previous NASL season's and out of the many seats there were only usually about 10-20 percent that were used for most games. This example isn't papering the house obviously as the seats were sold and the corporate buyer would give these tickets away to fans who largely didn't use them (as happens with many free tickets). FCE made $ for the seats obvously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

Shouldn't jump to the conclusion of some teams appearing to be probably papering the house though, disparities in number of no shows can be for various legitimate reasons in different markets. Some clubs may have more corporate/sponsor seats sold than others for instance, an area where there are usually a high rate of no shows. FC Edmonton as an example, had a section of seats sold in one of their previous NASL season's and out of the many seats there were only usually about 10-20 percent that were used for most games. This example isn't papering the house obviously as the seats were sold and the corporate buyer would give these tickets away to fans who largely didn't use them (as happens with many free tickets). FCE made $ for the seats obvously.

This has been his slant since day one.  The endless commenting on tickets sold and what the "crowd looks like" and certain teams seem to be papering the house.  Who knows what the purpose of repeating it ad nauseum is...it seems like after every forge game there is a whole page of discussion about whether the numbers "seem real".   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was chatting with someone in the know earlier this week and he mentioned that the ancillary revenue by attendee at a Valour match is overall about 1/2 of that by an attendee at a Bomber game.  Don't know how accurate that is but that's what he said.  Would guess a big part of that would be down to the age differences between the two sets of fans.  The younger crowds at the Valour fixtures are either too young to drink or just don't have the clink to spend in the same way as their parents might.  Booze & food. 

Certainly not down to merch sales, that seems to be going well and the smaller crowds I think help a lot with getting people to utilize the parking, on a per captia bases of course.

Some of that sales discrepency might be down to the differences in the footballing cultures as well.  I think before or after events are a bigger part of the CPL experience than it is for say a CFL crowd.  Just because of the length of time you need to spend at the stadium.  With a Valour match more of your evenings budget might get spent elsewhere.

Just trying to point out one of the reasons that bums in seats matters just as much as tickets sold.  That and I've had too much coffee this AM.      

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...