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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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I'm going to go with over, but it'll be close. I think Forge, HFX, and Valour should all be well above 4k average the rest of the way, but I guess if Valour continues to do poorly they could see a drop off. Cavarly's top attendance and average attendance have both gone up over the last 10 weeks, so I'm hoping that means their strong results and spotlight in the Voyageurs Cup is giving them a boost. Pacific, without actually dissecting the numbers I feel like they have been relatively steady, so I'm hoping that continues. Edmonton I hope they can hold steady, even if their numbers are low, I assume it is mostly made up of people that have been with them for the long haul from the NASL days. York 9 we shall see. They could go lower yet, but their games have been more entertaining recently. We'll see if that makes a difference or not.

But the fact that the league has averaged over 4k without the home openers gives me hope that the league can average over 4k for the whole season.

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Interesting blog article on CanPL attendance this year, strikes a nice balance well in between doom and gloom and over the top optimism: 


http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=10541

Notes that Edmonton's attendance this year is slightly lower than their last year in NASL (expenses likely lower too).  I really had expected the cities of Calgary and Edmonton to embrace their rivalry more from an attendance standpoint but maybe that will grow over time.  Especially if they end up in a home and home in the finals.  I still  think Forge sill spoil that scenario but an all-Alberta final would be pretty wild and probably a big boost for attendance in both cities going forward.

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Won't provide pictures to prove the obvious where York 9 having 2438 is concerned:

giphy.gif

but thought the 3745 number also looked a bit high based on what we could see on Onesoccer.

Even if crowds are not what they might be in Edmonton (my recollection of watching NASL clips is that the big blue seating was usually sparsely filled in a similar sort of way) it's great to see that they can use local players to the extent they are doing and get the job done on the field of play. That's a big difference from the Brickmen era when the Edmonton entry was usually well off the pace. After the team has folded once, it's probably difficult for some people to become emotionally invested again. Probably would have been better if there hadn't been the whole rally to save the team saga, but we'll probably never get the full story over what was happening between CanPL and Tom Fath at the time.

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1 hour ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Interesting blog article on CanPL attendance this year, strikes a nice balance well in between doom and gloom and over the top optimism: 


http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=10541

Notes that Edmonton's attendance this year is slightly lower than their last year in NASL (expenses likely lower too).  I really had expected the cities of Calgary and Edmonton to embrace their rivalry more from an attendance standpoint but maybe that will grow over time.  Especially if they end up in a home and home in the finals.  I still  think Forge sill spoil that scenario but an all-Alberta final would be pretty wild and probably a big boost for attendance in both cities going forward.

Unfortunately that article has some serious flaws, including the basis for its main conclusion that CPL crowds are dropping.

The first game for each club, Valour in particular, got a significant "curiosity" boost and is therefore an outlier. Furthermore, it has a significant impact in skewing the Spring Season stats upward because it was one of only five games.

Comparing Spring Season to Fall Season is entirely arbitrary. You need to look at the trend line and you need to include seasonal adjustments before you can draw any meaningful conclusions. For example, it is to be expected that Valour attendances will drop in July/Aug because many people go to the lake.

It is much too early and there is not enough data to conclude that CPL crowds are dropping!

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Funny how the title is attendance dropping, but when he quotes the league monthy averages they were but so far Aug (limited numbers) is up sharply (4626) and this last slate of 3 games averaged 4129 which continues the rebound trend.  And I do agree with Lofty, having 7-8 data points and lumping the first 4 (which includes opening day) against the last 4 its not surprising there is a drop off.    And maybe the rebound has something to do with Forge/Calgary's exploits lately outside the league, making people sit up and take notice.  

I think its more than just "fairly successful", in the first year with no history, no identity within the community and trying to establish a foothold we are averaging over 4000 across the league.  Usl champ is averaging roughly the same, and using it as a standard, USL attendance was down 9% last week from its average.  Summertime, go figure....

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019-usl-championship-attendance/

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The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

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The main owner is called Dean Shillington and he clearly got the low cap that he publicly stated he wanted last summer. With the Mediapro deal also in place now it's not clear that 5000 is needed to break even and that having 3000 or so instead is the huge financial calamity it could have been with a high salary cap. The planned investment on a $5 million training facility suggests it probably isn't.

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2 hours ago, Binky said:

The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

You are aware that the projected attendance refers to a future scenario where the stadium is finished and it can fit that many, do you not?

Or do you just like to boast about predicting something based on falsifying the facts to support your childishness?

Are you honestly suggesting that Simpson was predicting crowds of more than the stadium could hold at the time of the statement? 

CPL attendance has to be way better, but not the point of imagining non-existent seats, rows and sections for the sake of saying I TOLD YOU SO, and screaming in bold no less.

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9 hours ago, Binky said:

The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

You're cheering for the league to fail so you can go back to posting about how no one is trying to improve Canadian soccer. Seriously, think about that before typing another one of your idiotic rants.

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9 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Can someone remind me who Binky used to be on the old V site?

I thought it was Robert, but he tended to only post in CAPS and never posted in threads that he didn't start

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9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 The planned investment on a $5 million training facility suggests it probably isn't.

Yeah, kinda ridiculous to declare a club dead that is currently building the best training facility ever seen on the Island, maybe even BC.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, ted said:

Yeah, kinda ridiculous to declare a club dead that is currently building the best training facility ever seen on the Island, maybe even BC.

There are a lot of weirdos in the world... I just don’t get the impetus to constantly gleefully seek out any potential way to criticize or undermine this new league, but evidently there are people whose lives are so bereft of positivity or meaning that they feel the perverse need to troll. It’s pretty sad if you ask me. Anyhow, I’m not particularly worried about any club folding any time soon; as has been said before, the owners will have gone into this expecting years of losses and uphill business planning, so to speculate about a club folding anytime soon is wildly irresponsible and baseless, and it only serves to irritate. 

Of course we’d all like every club to sell out week after week, but this league is new, our brand awareness is low, and things will likely improve as the clubs’ respective owners figure things out (and as the league’s level of play continues to prove the naysayers wrong).

Also, the commercial relationships, broadcast deals, and business sponsors that have been achieved are impressive, and I’m fairly confident that with those in place, none of our clubs will be experience much in the way of losses. 

Edited by Ams1984
Autocorrect is stupid.

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Posted (edited)

I noticed that Toronto FC’s attendance has been down this year at around 24 000 compared to the last 2 years average of around 26 000 each year. 

Is it possible the CPL is taking a little cut out of the attendance or is it based on Toronto’s form. Toronto didn't have a good season last year either, but maybe the fans were in a Cup hangover. 

I know I haven’t been to a TFC game since the CPL started, but have been to 9 CPL games. Would much rather support a team that supports Canadians than Americans

Edited by canta15

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5 hours ago, deschamp86 said:

I thought it was Robert, but he tended to only post in CAPS and never posted in threads that he didn't start

I don't remember him being so unhinged.

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38 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I noticed that Toronto FC’s attendance has been down this year at around 24 000 compared to the last 2 years average of around 26 000 each year. 

Is it possible the CPL is taking a little cut out of the attendance or is it based on Toronto’s form. Toronto didn't have a good season last year either, but maybe the fans were in a Cup hangover. 

I know I haven’t been to a TFC game since the CPL started, but have been to 9 CPL games. Would much rather support a team that supports Canadians than Americans

It has a lot do with the sale of Giovinco.

And the team is pretty boring now.

I'm a season ticket holder and have only been to 1 game this year.

And the after market is nearly dead now.

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

It has a lot do with the sale of Giovinco.

And the team is pretty boring now.

I'm a season ticket holder and have only been to 1 game this year.

And the after market is nearly dead now

The Raptors' crazy ride and the Leafs being "contenders" again probably affect ticket sales with people having to choose what team to buy tickets for and as someone said TFC's hype in trending down compared to 2016-17

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

It has a lot do with the sale of Giovinco.

And the team is pretty boring now.

I'm a season ticket holder and have only been to 1 game this year.

And the after market is nearly dead now.

This. I'm a season ticket holder as well, and I haven't exactly been blown away by the on-field product this year. The team is a bit better, and their playoff chances are better, but they are blowing chances for easy points, just like last year. Much of the sting is missing from their offence this season.

The after-market is just about completely dead. It is very difficult to move tickets to games I can't make, without giving away the tickets outright. Barring any huge promotions, I will probably ditch my TFC seasons and retain my Y9 seasons. I can still buy TFC tickets for the odd game next year.

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