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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I want all the clubs to succeed, obviously, but I am not surprised York 9 is struggling relative to Halifax.

The branding is strong, the location is central, and the competition with nearby professional soccer teams is non-existent.

York 9 branding is not great overall, but considering the challenge, they have done well. One poster described the difficulty getting to the stadium from downtown Toronto after work. That's the challenge with a suburban team.

I can relate to that because getting to Spruce Meadows after work from downtown Calgary is also difficult. At least the Cavs don't have competition from Toronto FC. Cavalry FC are the only professional soccer show in town.

Hamilton seems to work better because at least it has it's own urban core and the stadium is not far from it. I hope the Durham/Pickering group are watching York 9 closely. 

The natural move for Pacific FC, maybe in a few years, is when interest flags from the Langford mayor and if fans tire of the haul to Westhills, they'll start talks with the city of Victoria on Royal Athletic Park. I don't want to get ahead on the question, because of now it is what it is, and you have to respect it, and especially the investment from a small municipality.

I would not be surprised, however, if the PFC owners have already spoken with folks at Victoria City Hall.

This same scenario on location might also be seen elsewhere, and really should guide the criteria of new clubs as think of options.

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

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4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That was a poster from Quebec. In reality they are very close to where highway 400 meets highway 407 and TTC subway stops that serve as an access point for other GTA transit systems. Access by car or mass transit will actually be a lot easier than it is for BMO Field for a lot of people in the wider Toronto area. One of the arguments for this location revolved around ease of access for people who are quite distant from TFC in travel time terms.

https://transportation.info.yorku.ca/subway/

The 2007 U-20 World Cup stadium was originally going to be built at York U for future use by the Argos and MLS. The move to BMO Field's location was a last minute thing driven by MLSE after the Argos pulled out and renewed their lease at the Rogers Centre.

They are currently in a much better location in access terms than their rumoured preferred York Region stadium location, so if they struggle to fill 3000 seats this season there won't be much of a business case for that type of stadium to be built in Mississauga, York Region or Durham. That will no doubt lead to people with low IQs concluding I want it to fail, so probably best to point out that outlining a possible outcome is not the same as wanting it to happen. I don't get any pleasure out of the feeling of deja vu Gopherbashi's picture provides from being at North York Rockets games.

Though you may take no pleasure in it, I suspect that some twisted individuals here do. I think that when someone speculates about a club’s death a few weeks into its on-field operation, with no real track record or even attendance history or sample size to judge from, they’re being extremely cynical and unhelpful. It’s also totally premature and baseless; I’ll bet the York 9 crowd will be bad today, thundershowers are all but guaranteed today. Some trolls will jump to shout “Oh no! Club’s going to fold!!!” 

Just ask yourself why someone would have been discussing the club folding before the Blainville game had even been played. 

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2 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Though you may take no pleasure in it, I suspect that some twisted individuals here do. I think that when someone speculates about a club’s death a few weeks into its on-field operation, with no real track record or even attendance history or sample size to judge from, they’re being extremely cynical and unhelpful. It’s also totally premature and baseless; I’ll bet the York 9 crowd will be bad today, thundershowers are all but guaranteed today. Some trolls will jump to shout “Oh no! Club’s going to fold!!!” 

Just ask yourself why someone would have been discussing the club folding before the Blainville game had even been played. 

Ooh me!  Am I the twisted troll?

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1 minute ago, Gopherbashi said:

Ooh me!  Am I the twisted troll?

Just might be. What possible motivation could you have to start speculating about a club folding before it had hosted a game... and then carry on intensifying that speculation on multiple threads? Sounds like trolling to me. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

Just might be. What possible motivation could you have to start speculating about a club folding before it had hosted a game... and then carry on intensifying that speculation on multiple threads? Sounds like trolling to me. 

My motivation is that this is a discussion forum?  Sorry for discussing spring season attendance and its relation to a team's success in a spring season attendance thread.

As others in this very topic have pointed out, it's not unreasonable to talk about a team's viability when you can probably count an exact attendance by looking at a photo.

I'm sorry if that topic of discussion is getting under your skin somehow but I'm not trying to troll anyone here.

Edited by Gopherbashi

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4 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

My motivation is that this is a discussion forum?  Sorry for discussing spring season attendance and its relation to a team's success in a spring season attendance thread.

As others in this very topic have pointed out, it's not unreasonable to talk about a team's viability when you can probably count an exact attendance by looking at a photo.

I'm sorry if that topic of discussion is getting under your skin somehow but I'm not trying to troll anyone here.

You’re avoiding the thrust of it. You were speculating about the club folding BEFORE  they had hosted their first game. You then latched onto poor attendance to carry that forward in multiple threads AFTER the game. I could understand baseless and premature speculation based on a photo of it began after the game. Yours began the day before. 

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6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Considering you have just started, that you are nowhere so far, and that Halifax is in a pure novelty phase still, you should be a bit more modest instead of bragging already. It is very newbie of you.

You are the poster that said that having a properly built stadiums with proper washrooms and concessions was a snobbish Upper Canada thing? I'd hate to see what Nova Scotia schools and hospitals are like with that mentality--or maybe we are lucky you are not in charge of that.

Just for the record - the comment about 'Upper Canada liking their heated stands' was a total joke. I was actually poking a little fun at our aluminum bleachers and porto potties and having a little fun with Ontarion's on here. Im sure there are many fans in Halifax who are sitting on the cold steel that would love to have an actual seat. 

I didn't mean to come off as bragging. I as much as anyone wants to see all the teams in this leagues succeed and thrive. I realize all the clubs including Halifax have a ton of work to do to achieve this. I guess the point im making is likely not all the initial clubs will survive - this happens in any sports league. Im just being realistic that York 9 is going to be a real challenge. I wish them the best and hope im totally wrong however that is my view.

PS the hospitals are in bad enough shape in Nova Scotia but it has nothing to do with me    lol

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4 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

You’re avoiding the thrust of it. You were speculating about the club folding BEFORE  they had hosted their first game. You then latched onto poor attendance to carry that forward in multiple threads AFTER the game. I could understand baseless and premature speculation based on a photo of it began after the game. Yours began the day before. 

My speculation about York began well more than the day before, because of multiple reasons (lack of a distinct media market, high ticket prices, low season ticket holder numbers, indistinct regional identity, etc) why I feel a York team would have difficulty attracting crowds that would allow for long-term survival.  It seemed only natural to loop back to that after seeing crowds which suggested that those concerns had merit.

I'll give you premature if you want, but I don't believe the concerns are baseless, nor do I believe that they're out of place on a discussion topic about spring season attendance.

We can talk about it more over beers if we meet at the game today, I'll be there all season.

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21 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

My speculation about York began well more than the day before, because of multiple reasons (lack of a distinct media market, high ticket prices, low season ticket holder numbers, indistinct regional identity, etc) why I feel a York team would have difficulty attracting crowds that would allow for long-term survival.  It seemed only natural to loop back to that after seeing crowds which suggested that those concerns had merit.

I'll give you premature if you want, but I don't believe the concerns are baseless, nor do I believe that they're out of place on a discussion topic about spring season attendance.

We can talk about it more over beers if we meet at the game today, I'll be there all season.

Cheers, enjoy the game. Hopefully we don’t get too wet. 

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51 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

Just for the record - the comment about 'Upper Canada liking their heated stands' was a total joke. I was actually poking a little fun at our aluminum bleachers and porto potties and having a little fun with Ontarion's on here. Im sure there are many fans in Halifax who are sitting on the cold steel that would love to have an actual seat. 

I didn't mean to come off as bragging. I as much as anyone wants to see all the teams in this leagues succeed and thrive. I realize all the clubs including Halifax have a ton of work to do to achieve this. I guess the point im making is likely not all the initial clubs will survive - this happens in any sports league. Im just being realistic that York 9 is going to be a real challenge. I wish them the best and hope im totally wrong however that is my view.

PS the hospitals are in bad enough shape in Nova Scotia but it has nothing to do with me    lol

I assure you, and I have posted to support it, that I think that Halifax has the best model so far of any CPL club. Downtown stadium, properly sized, good fan base, enthusiasm in the stands, good product on the field. 

I also think that of all the teams in the league, the place where a trophy would be most enthusiastically celebrated is Halifax.

I just think you should count your lucky stars, I am amazed and jealous but I think you have been a bit fortunate it all fell into place the way it did. 

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1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I assure you, and I have posted to support it, that I think that Halifax has the best model so far of any CPL club. Downtown stadium, properly sized, good fan base, enthusiasm in the stands, good product on the field. 

I also think that of all the teams in the league, the place where a trophy would be most enthusiastically celebrated is Halifax.

I just think you should count your lucky stars, I am amazed and jealous but I think you have been a bit fortunate it all fell into place the way it did. 

I'm not going to lie - and I think most people here would agree - the Wanderers hold a little bit of all our hearts.

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9 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Cheers, I'll try to back off on the negativity.

So, what was your take on the crowd pre-rain? 

From where I was sitting (section 500) it looked pretty good. I couldn’t hazard a guess at a number, but I felt like it was better than Wednesday (even without taking the Hamilton guys into account, and it certainly was cool to see them opposite us) 

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Ams1984 said:

So, what was your take on the crowd pre-rain? 

From where I was sitting (section 500) it looked pretty good. I couldn’t hazard a guess at a number, but I felt like it was better than Wednesday (even without taking the Hamilton guys into account, and it certainly was cool to see them opposite us) 

Oh definitely better than Wednesday, no doubt about that.  The few rows behind me in 300 were pretty sparse (maybe 5 people in each of them) but overall it seemed like there weren't a ton of free seats elsewhere.  Maybe I smell bad.

I saw someone mention 75-80% full which seems like the right ballpark.  Tough to judge these things from within the stand itself.

Edit: Probably the Barton guys have the best insight tbh

Edited by Gopherbashi

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21 hours ago, Ansem said:

7pm game, midweek, North York... not downtown...is just asking for people to no show.

They should consider Thursdays around 8 instead. Just my opinion.

If it was an exception that the game was in North York rather than downtown, then this would be a good argument as to why the attendance for that game will be a one off. But that is their stadium for the foreseeable future.

As for the Thursday rather than Wednesday, I doubt that would make much of a difference. Perhaps 8pm, as you suggest, rather than 7pm could make a bit of a difference.

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9 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

4260 for York9 at York Lions Stadium today for their home opener. No doubt poor weather affected attendance today, their was a weather delay as well and heavy rain starting for the second half.

Pretty good number all things considered. 

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9 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

4260 for York9 at York Lions Stadium today for their home opener. No doubt poor weather affected attendance today, their was a weather delay as well and heavy rain starting for the second half.

No way that was attendance. Tickets sold I’m thinking. Attendance was probably 2ish K. The 3k stand was maybe half full. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

4260 for York9 at York Lions Stadium today for their home opener. No doubt poor weather affected attendance today, their was a weather delay as well and heavy rain starting for the second half.

Honestly seems better than I expected.  There were only ~200 tickets left in the west stand as of this morning, so I don't think that number could be driven up much higher.

Even that 4200 number seems tough to get to.  That west stand only holds 3000, maybe 100 in the SG and even assuming 400 with Barton only brings me to 3500.  There must be some more seating I'm not aware of.

Edited by Gopherbashi

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11 minutes ago, Reign said:

No way that was attendance. Tickets sold I’m thinking. Attendance was probably 2ish K. The 3k stand was maybe half full. 

That's the announced attendance (tickets sold/comped) which is the standard North American pro sports league's use.

There's always some no shows, more today with the poor weather.

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I know it's May in Canada and you can expect some cold wet weather but most matches have been plagued by really poor weather, all 3 Forge matches I have been to have been really cold and windy with the last one being wet as well, the forecast was for severe thunderstorms at the York 9 match yesterday and the meteorologists got that one right, it didn't look like the nicest day at Spruce Meadows either! Of course weather is going to influence attendance as the casual fans are less likely to show up in bad weather, I'm interested to see how this will change when/if we actually get some nice game days! 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Honestly seems better than I expected.  There were only ~200 tickets left in the west stand as of this morning, so I don't think that number could be driven up much higher.

Even that 4200 number seems tough to get to...

I will preface this by emphasizing that anyone who saw the CSL era Blizzard, North York Rockets and USL era Toronto Lynx play should have expected York 9 to have a tough time carving out a strong fanbase. Lower budget pro soccer is a tough sell in the GTA and unlike pretty much anywhere else in Canada an ethnic angle rather than pushing the by Canadians for Canadians mantra so much might actually help. I think they probably should have done something like signing the ex-Italy world cup team player that was rumoured at one point and can always try something like that in future.

In contrast with Calgary, I don't think we can use Ticketmaster to gauge what's happening in the main seating block, if this is what it looked like at kickoff:

My guess would be that the massive spike in membership numbers late last year was driven by corporate and/or youth club purchases that might not necessarily translate into actual fans in seats. If they are not using the upper tier general admission as that youtube clip suggests 4200 will not be too far off total capacity, so comps given to the Forge for the entire bleacher side might well be being factored into a tickets distributed number.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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Posted (edited)

One thing to keep in mind  is that unfortunately weather is going to play a major factor in attendance when it comes to the CPL as I found out the hard way at yesterday’s York9 Forge game. We are talking about a league where the average for success will be around the 4 to 6 thousand number. However , a bad weather day can effect that number considerably and living here in Canada where it seems that your lucky to get a decent weather day maybe once or twice a week even in July and August . Moreover, you can’t bring up the fact that two of the Canadian MLS teams play in outdoor stadiums too and also have to fight the not so great Canadian weather, however, they are dealing with much bigger average attendances so if 2000 or 3000 don’t show up because of weather they still have 15 to even 20000 at the game more or less, but 1000 people not showing up for a CPL game because of the weather has a greater effect on the CPL teams . Therefore, I feel for these CPL teams that are at the mercy of the crappy Canadian weather in their battle to grow this league in Canada.

Edited by SoccMan

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3 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

One thing to keep in mind  is that unfortunately weather is going to play a major factor in attendance when it comes to the CPL as I found out the hard way at yesterday’s York9 Forge game. We are talking about a league where the average for success will be around the 4 to 6 thousand number. However , a bad weather day can effect that number considerably and living here in Canada where it seems that your lucky to get a decent weather day maybe once or twice a week even in July and August . Moreover, you can’t bring up the fact that two of the Canadian MLS teams play in outdoor stadiums too and also have to fight the not so great Canadian weather, however, they are dealing with much bigger average attendances so if 2000 or 3000 don’t show up because of weather they still have 15 to even 20000 at the game more or less, but say even a 1000 people not showing up for a CPL game because of the weather has a greater effect on the CPL teams . Therefore, I feel for these CPL teams that are at the mercy of the crappy Canadian weather in their battle to grow this league in Canada.

I hope this gets clubs tontake a harder look at providing some protection from the elements. Not talking thunderstorms or cold but a little bit of rain is enough for people to just no show. 

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