2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Didn't seem to be a weak draw in Halifax where having 5500 at the game was spectacularly good, and it's interesting to try to figure out why there is such a contrast on this. Think it's a mix of crazily high ticket prices on the part of the Cavalry and York 9 and being viewed as a minor rather than a major sports story in terms of what the local market is used to having access to. Don't think you can blame stadium location in York 9's case although it almost certainly is a significant factor with the Cavalry.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CDNFootballer]

York9's opposition basically being an amatuer club, non league game on a weekday, no serious marketing, all makes it pretty meaningless to use as an attendance barometer of any sort.

Saturdays CPL home opener for York9 will be meaningful however although weather may likely heavily affect the crowd for that one.

[grasshopper1917]

1 hour ago, CDNFootballer said:

York9's opposition basically being an amatuer club, non league game on a weekday, no serious marketing, all makes it pretty meaningless to use as an attendance barometer of any sort.

Saturdays CPL home opener for York9 will be meaningful however although weather may likely heavily affect the crowd for that one.

I would say in some cases it would not be a great indicator. However given  the stadium was virtually empty it does raise some red flags. Calgary and Pacific also have raised some red flags (not as red as York 9). After the spring season is done each club will have to sit down and look at the numbers and decide what adjustments they need to make next year or even if a club is viable in their market. 

My gut feeling is Calgary and Pacific may be able to make some adjustments to possibly build their crowds. Pricing adjustments or moving to a new location in the market. However my feeling on 'York' has always been it has to be done perfectly to succeed in that 'market'. Id say the odds of York being around and a successful franchise 5 years out is about 10% max. 

My feeling is Edmonton, Halifax, Winnipeg and Hamilton all have a reasonable base of support. However lots of room to grow and improve for all 4 of those clubs. With any new league there will be growing pains and failures. Im pretty sure York 9 is going to be the biggest of them.

[Gopherbashi]

8 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I would say in some cases it would not be a great indicator. However given  the stadium was virtually empty it does raise some red flags. Calgary and Pacific also have raised some red flags (not as red as York 9). After the spring season is done each club will have to sit down and look at the numbers and decide what adjustments they need to make next year or even if a club is viable in their market. 

This is a very important point.  Everyone's talking about expansion and getting an even number of teams in for next year, when there's no guarantee at all we'll be carrying forward the seven from this season.

[ted]

1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said:

This is a very important point.  Everyone's talking about expansion and getting an even number of teams in for next year, when there's no guarantee at all we'll be carrying forward the seven from this season.

We are nowhere near talking about losing teams. Well, at least we shouldn't be. Realistic attendance projections and business plans should have had numbers like this as a reasonable proposition.

I'm frankly tired of the doom and gloom bullshit. The smaller clubs should realistically be averaging 3,000-4,000 by the end of the season. Anyone who expects better is smoking something or has an axe to grind.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Interesting how the goalposts shift on here now that reality is replacing aspiration. I was on the receiving end of all kinds of ridicule and at times vile personal abuse on this forum for suggesting that the league should assume attendance of around 3000 initially and that talk of 6000-8000 being the norm was overly optimistic. As things stand at the moment that's looking not too far off now that the initial excitement with home openers is wearing off.

It would be surprising if any franchise at or above that sort of number would throw in the towel unless the investors involved were completely blind to what tends to happen in lower budget pro soccer leagues in North America. The concern would be with any that are significantly under it. As long as there is a net gain in numbers terms on expansion vs departing or relocating strugglers the show goes on and in a worst case scenario they could still relent where having MLS affiliates is concerned, so I'd be very surprised if this league folds any time soon based on what we have seen so far.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

...Saturdays CPL home opener for York9 will be meaningful however although weather may likely heavily affect the crowd for that one.

The attendance will probably be boosted by at least 1000 Forge members with freebie tickets. As with other teams it will be three home league games in until we get a clearer picture of normal levels of fan interest.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[HfxCeltic]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Interesting how the goalposts shift on here now that reality is replacing aspiration. I was on the receiving end of all kinds of ridicule and at times vile personal abuse on this forum for suggesting that the league should assume attendance of around 3000 initially and that talk of 6000-8000 being the norm was overly optimistic. As things stand at the moment that's looking not too far off now that the initial excitement with home openers is wearing off.

It would be surprising if any franchise at or above that sort of number would throw in the towel unless the investors involved were completely blind to what tends to happen in lower budget pro soccer leagues in North America. The concern would be with any that are significantly under it. As long as there is a net gain in numbers terms on expansion vs departing or relocating strugglers the show goes on and in a worst case scenario they could still relent where having MLS affiliates is concerned, so I'd be very surprised if this league folds any time soon based on what we have seen so far.  

This comment leaves me feeling extremely conflicted....it might be the biggest backwards compliment I've ever read.

Edited May 24, 2019 by HfxCeltic

[BuzzAndSting]

27 minutes ago, HfxCeltic said:

This comment leaves me feeling extremely conflicted....it might be the biggest backwards compliment I've ever read.

#classicBBTB

[Ams1984]

29 minutes ago, HfxCeltic said:

This comment leaves me feeling extremely conflicted....it might be the biggest backwards compliment I've ever read.

Also, can we all agree to stop calling the clubs “franchises”?

[MM3/MM2/MM]

10 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

This is a very important point.  Everyone's talking about expansion and getting an even number of teams in for next year, when there's no guarantee at all we'll be carrying forward the seven from this season.

C'mon man, nobody is folding after the first season.  I would say it would be at least  3 years before any team folds.  There are some imperfections but the league seems to be built on a strong base. i see a strong 10-12 team league for a long time.  Failure is not an option.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1723 is the announced attendance for York 9 vs Blainville.

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/f00c5s9hncz654ukef3o62356_c/highlights

Still no word on the Calgary crowd.

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/ezy1vioi3zg4klptj92tunj3e_c/highlights

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Cblake]

9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

1723 is the announced attendance for York 9 vs Blainville.

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/f00c5s9hncz654ukef3o62356_c/highlights

Still no work on the Calgary crowd.

https://canpl.ca/matchcentre/ezy1vioi3zg4klptj92tunj3e_c/highlights

Yeah that seems about right for York having gone to the game. I assume it's taken from the turnstile, otherwise it could give us some insight into season tickets sold. 

[narduch]

I'm not worried about York 9's future. They have a rich owner and appear to be doing a good job on the grass roots level.

I just wish they would fix up their stadium and reconsider their pricing.

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

Yeah that seems about right for York having gone to the game. I assume it's taken from the turnstile, otherwise it could give us some insight into season tickets sold. 

It seems completely off for me, having gone to the game.

The permanent stands have about 3000 seats.  The east GA stands were closed down.  The SG section and the corner suites aren't going to add much more to that.

There's no way that the stands were more than half-full.  It couldn't be turnstile.

All it means is that Y9 has roughly 1700 season tickets sold, aside from the ~25 Blainville supporters who showed up to the game.

[Gopherbashi]

2 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

C'mon man, nobody is folding after the first season.  I would say it would be at least  3 years before any team folds.  There are some imperfections but the league seems to be built on a strong base. i see a strong 10-12 team league for a long time.  Failure is not an option.

The league's built on a strong base, but it doesn't mean that teams will stick around if they see the writing on the wall.

Just because these owners are rich doesn't mean that they'll burn money indefinitely.

[Ansem]

The league is like 5 matches old. A bit premature to speculate on teams folding

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ansem

[jonovision]

In addition, other than the bump most teams have seen for their home openers, this is the part of the season I'd expect to be the toughest sell, especially considering the weather for many of the games.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

September and October will be similar from that standpoint.

[Macksam]

4 hours ago, HfxCeltic said:

This comment leaves me feeling extremely conflicted....it might be the biggest backwards compliment I've ever read.

He's also using revisionist history. He was never attacked for "suggesting that the league should assume attendance of around 3000 initially and that talk of 6000-8000 being the norm was overly optimistic." 

He was mainly attacked and still gets attacked for passing off his ardent opinions as fact when they are just opinions. 

You can ignore his posts whenever he presents himself as a victim. 

[Bison44]

And the talk of MLS affiliates starts up again.  What did that take, 3-4 games each with some mixed results??  Can we at least wait until the spring season is over before we start writing off clubs and potential expansions in SK and PQ and fall back on MLS to save us with affiliates??  

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

And the talk of MLS affiliates starts up again.  What did that take, 3-4 games each with some mixed results??  Can we at least wait until the spring season is over before we start writing off clubs and potential expansions in SK and PQ and fall back on MLS to save us with affiliates??  

I'm glad I missed that.  If this league becomes an MLS affiliate, I'll lose all interest.

[narduch]

13 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

And the talk of MLS affiliates starts up again.  What did that take, 3-4 games each with some mixed results??  Can we at least wait until the spring season is over before we start writing off clubs and potential expansions in SK and PQ and fall back on MLS to save us with affiliates??  

No thanks to MLS affiliates.

The CPL has already proven they aren't needed. It would be self-sabotage to let them in.

The MLS teams wish they could put their B squads in this league. The USL has become a monstrosity and a joke with the MLS reserve squads.

Does the stadium TFC II used even have seating for fans?

Edited May 24, 2019 by narduch

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

September and October will be similar from that standpoint.

The difference with September and October is that these teams will have already had 4 months to establish a profile in their local markets, and rectify many of the things that weren't working early in the season. 

This is kind of how any new project tends to work.

[The Real Marc]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Does the stadium TFC II used even have seating for fans?

Does York 9 even need seating for fans?