Forge FC Season Thread 2019

[Ruffian]

11 hours ago, Ansem said:

Forge has a striker problem. They would have win if they had a good. They need to invest there ASAP

Simeon Jackson!

[-Hammer-]

I though Cavalry was rewarded far too much for diving that game. That was one of those games that should be reviewed after the fact and suspensions handed out (in particular of Escalante) for the practice.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

That's up to the CSA rather than the league, so I doubt there is going to be any special Canadian interpretation on how to interpret the rules given all the refs involved will want to move onto international competition and will be assessed for their suitability for that in games like these. If you are going to be Canada's representative in the CONCACAF League there is no harm in getting used to what's normal in Central America and learning to conform to the style of officiating that will be encountered in that context.

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That's up to the CSA rather than the league, so I doubt there is going to be any special Canadian interpretation on how to interpret the rules given all the refs involved will want to move onto international competition and will be assessed for their suitability for that in games like these. If you are going to be Canada's representative in the CONCACAF League there is no harm in getting used to what's normal in Central America and learning to conform to the style of officiating that will be encountered in that context.

You're right, but this is a rare time I'd like to see us stand on principal, set an example and showed the world "We started reviewing and punishing diving, and it cleaned it up and got it out of the game" and then maybe some other nations start doing the same.

Edited June 5, 2019 by -Hammer-

[Bison44]

The CPL must have some mechanism for reviewing/punishing things post game.  Maybe a couple of post game reds/suspensions for diving and or dangerous tackles etc would help clean up some stuff.  I get that the res are hesitant to hand out diving yellows in real time as they can be so hard to judge, but after the game it can be obvious when the gamesmanship is excessive.  Just because our teams will run into this in CONCACAF is no reason to have it in our league.  

[gator]

24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The CPL must have some mechanism for reviewing/punishing things post game.  Maybe a couple of post game reds/suspensions for diving and or dangerous tackles etc would help clean up some stuff.  I get that the res are hesitant to hand out diving yellows in real time as they can be so hard to judge, but after the game it can be obvious when the gamesmanship is excessive.  Just because our teams will run into this in CONCACAF is no reason to have it in our league.  

The CPL suspended Bekker retroactively correctly for an elbow which should have been a Red in the inaugural match so the mechanism is there!

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

It was the CSA that did that.

https://www.canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-announces-fine-suspension-for-forge-fc-s-kyle-bekker-p162161-preview-1

...Canada Soccer is responsible for all disciplinary matters in Canada including the Canadian Premier League, Canadian Championship and all other domestic championships.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

57 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

The CPL must have some mechanism for reviewing/punishing things post game.  Maybe a couple of post game reds/suspensions for diving and or dangerous tackles etc would help clean up some stuff.  I get that the res are hesitant to hand out diving yellows in real time as they can be so hard to judge, but after the game it can be obvious when the gamesmanship is excessive.  Just because our teams will run into this in CONCACAF is no reason to have it in our league.  

It is in general a bad precedent to second guess reffing, it creates a situation where the ref's authority is weakened and then clubs start betting on post-game lobbying technique, which is not ideal. 

In any case, you can only review diving if it is blatant and actually did trick the ref, and gave advantage to a team. And to do that, like at MLS, you have to hire a whole bunch of dull as hell ex refs, and where do you put them, in the same room somewhere?  MLS ends up being hypocritical because they re-ref a lot of petty stuff, but the core quality of reffing is still piss poor, sometimes shockingly so. 

I suppose they are going to look at the postgame "brawl" and try to catch any clear punches thrown or over the top provocations that might mean both teams will be missing players for the second leg. I did not look really carefully, but I thought that Borges got into someone's face a bit too much there, for example.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

The CPL must have some mechanism for reviewing/punishing things post game.  Maybe a couple of post game reds/suspensions for diving and or dangerous tackles etc would help clean up some stuff.  I get that the res are hesitant to hand out diving yellows in real time as they can be so hard to judge, but after the game it can be obvious when the gamesmanship is excessive.  Just because our teams will run into this in CONCACAF is no reason to have it in our league.  

All discipline matters seems to be handled by the CSA as stated in the Bekker case

[Pottsy3]

42 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I did not look really carefully, but I thought that Borges got into someone's face a bit too much there, for example.

There was also a point late in the match once Borges had already been subbed off, where things got physical leading to a free kick and Borges seemed to rush onto the field to get involved with a scuffle. Seemed like he might've been responsible for inciting the incidents.

[CanadaFan123]

Did Borges get in his face or was that Malonga getting in his face?  I honestly can't tell.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Did Borges get in his face or was that Malonga getting in his face?  I honestly can't tell.  

I don't want to sound like I am blaming Tristan, I am not sure, and of course we do not hear the words said. Obviously Forge are angry because it is not just a late penalty, and a red, but that away goal for the toughest team in the league. 

And then Cavalry celebrating hugely as they were in their right to do. 

But I do think the team that was angrier and less willing to accept what happened in the final minutes was Forge.

Let me just say though: I think this kind of intensity is huge for the league and the Voyageurs Cup, it is just want we want, to have more teams chomping at the bit to get a shot at an MLS club. Apart from the fact that watching that little tiff was fun, these guys are the 1st season heroes of the CPL.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[-Hammer-]

21 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It is in general a bad precedent to second guess reffing, it creates a situation where the ref's authority is weakened and then clubs start betting on post-game lobbying technique, which is not ideal. 

In any case, you can only review diving if it is blatant and actually did trick the ref, and gave advantage to a team. And to do that, like at MLS, you have to hire a whole bunch of dull as hell ex refs, and where do you put them, in the same room somewhere?  MLS ends up being hypocritical because they re-ref a lot of petty stuff, but the core quality of reffing is still piss poor, sometimes shockingly so. 

I suppose they are going to look at the postgame "brawl" and try to catch any clear punches thrown or over the top provocations that might mean both teams will be missing players for the second leg. I did not look really carefully, but I thought that Borges got into someone's face a bit too much there, for example.

I disagree here. You already have only one ref. Stuff is going to get missed with one ref. You should always have a post-game review of the entire match, and the following items should always suffer suspensions.

1) Players that strike other players when the ref's back is turned

2) Clear dives where no contact is made and the intent is to draw a foul

3) Engaging in play that caused injury that was either intentional or incredibly reckless.

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

I disagree here. You already have only one ref. Stuff is going to get missed with one ref. You should always have a post-game review of the entire match, and the following items should always suffer suspensions.

1) Players that strike other players when the ref's back is turned

2) Clear dives where no contact is made and the intent is to draw a foul

3) Engaging in play that caused injury that was either intentional or incredibly reckless.

The obsessive lust for justice after a game has been played can only mean more overhead for the league--plus a clear message that the real game was not the one you paid to see on the pitch. 

[-Hammer-]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

The obsessive lust for justice after a game has been played can only mean more overhead for the league--plus a clear message that the real game was not the one you paid to see on the pitch. 

Overhead? Are you kidding me? It's re-watching the game, looking at the replays, something that should already be a part of ref evaluation. It's a few hours of extra work at most. 

As far as the real game? What? How is players striking other players when the back is turned part of the game? How is diving part of the game, and should be rewarded? How is injuring people needlessly part of the game? Getting these items out of the game, should be everyone's priority and frankly, striking other players and clear dives are unambiguous, as is actually causing an injury.

[Bison44]

Dont most leagues have some way of handling these kinds of things that are missed onfield.  I'm not sure how it degrades the game "the real game is not what you see on the pitch" etc.  Officials are not looking everywhere and stuff happens, league should be able to level suspensions for things that they dont catch live.  Maybe the teams have to bring grievences a head ref etc and he makes a ruling after seeing all the replays etc.  

[SthMelbRed]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:43 AM, -Hammer- said:

I disagree here. You already have only one ref. Stuff is going to get missed with one ref. You should always have a post-game review of the entire match, and the following items should always suffer suspensions.

1) Players that strike other players when the ref's back is turned

2) Clear dives where no contact is made and the intent is to draw a foul

3) Engaging in play that caused injury that was either intentional or incredibly reckless.

It's ridiculous that people in Canada, the US, and the UK continue to put number 2 on a par with 1 and 3.

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

It's ridiculous that people in Canada, the US, and the UK continue to put number 2 on a par with 1 and 3.

I get that 1 and 3 are categorically different, but 2 is a blatant attempt to cheat in an effort to win an advantage or get another player sent off.  I do not think it is on par with 1 and 3 (and i doubt most do) but the question is whether or not that sort of offence should be reviewable if missed in a game.  Saying yes o that question does not imply it is "on par" with punching someone - it just means it is something that people want taken seriously and expunged from the game as much as possible. 

[SthMelbRed]

43 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I get that 1 and 3 are categorically different, but 2 is a blatant attempt to cheat in an effort to win an advantage or get another player sent off.  I do not think it is on par with 1 and 3 (and i doubt most do) but the question is whether or not that sort of offence should be reviewable if missed in a game.  Saying yes o that question does not imply it is "on par" with punching someone - it just means it is something that people want taken seriously and expunged from the game as much as possible. 

The guy I quoted wants suspensions for players retrospectively deemed to have dived. This is despite the offence only meriting a yellow card when called by the match referee in real time. That's putting it on par with 1 and 3.

[dyslexic nam]

27 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

The guy I quoted wants suspensions for players retrospectively deemed to have dived. This is despite the offence only meriting a yellow card when called by the match referee in real time. That's putting it on par with 1 and 3.

I just think that the penalties you can impose after the fact are pretty limited.  You can suspend the diver or you could fine him (or both).  Bekker got suspended for 2 games for something akin to the offences noted in 1 and 3 - would suspending a diver for one game be "on par"?  Maybe not.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://northerntribune.ca/forge-fc-baj-maan/

...He becomes the 22nd signing. The league has a maximum roster size of 23, so head coach Bobby Smyrniotis still has room to make another addition should the club need to bring anyone else in.

Since this is a developmental contract, Baj will still be eligible to play in U SPORTS competition when his contract expires at the end of the season. He’ll also count towards the Canadian Premier League‘s required domestic U-21 minutes should he see any playing time...

No prizes for guessing which soccer academy he comes from.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[gator]

Forge are in serious need of a proven striker, with only one roster spot remaining I hope this is being addressed! 

[king1010]

6 minutes ago, gator said:

Forge are in serious need of a proven striker, with only one roster spot remaining I hope this is being addressed! 

Simeon Jackson would be awesome. But probably wishful thinking. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

https://www.canadasoccer.com/canada-soccer-opens-investigation-into-allegations-of-racial-comments--p162218

[deschamp86]

22 hours ago, king1010 said:

Simeon Jackson would be awesome. But probably wishful thinking. 

Based on how guys like Haber and Nakajima-Farran have fared thus far, I am beginning to think that Jackson might not be all that great in CPL. I do think he is better than Haber though, and with a better team behind him than what Haber has, I could be wrong